Popular Post GyroRideRz Posted November 27, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) Firmware is altered in a way not intended by the manudacturer and especially alters safety features implemented by the manufacturer. Hello everyone, I create this topic to share with you results of my tests with a Z10 whose top speed has been unlocked at 56 km/h thanks to the superb work of @MRN76 and its magnificent APP NINETOOL ! A big thank you to him for this life-changing performance! First of all i'm not crazy and I ride fully equipped with good motocross protection : A Full face Motocross helmetA motorcycle jacket with integrated protection Shin guardsGyroRiderz Full Finger Gloves with integrated Wrists protection And I also have good accessories : A wrist mirrorA blinker on the back That being said, let's begin. After 2 days of testing, I enjoy riding in a Z10 even more, which I didn't think was possible because I love riding with this wheel so much, and coming out of an INMOTION V8 it wasn't easy, though. The wheel behaves extremely well at a constant speed of 45km/h, it is a delight to be able to drive at 40-45 without tiltback and no longer have this big speed limit just dropped to 65% of remaining range. For the moment I have not yet exceeded 50 because between 47 and 49, I feel the loss of the feeling of not being able to fall (I think that those who ride in Z10 must understand what I am talking about, because it is not easy to describe as a feeling) Once the 45km/h is reached, you have to lean much further forward to accelerate and I feel that the wheel tends to lean slightly forward instead of staying straight. That said, it may be because of bad tire pressure. So I'm going to test with some different pressures to see if it improves things. Here, for this first recap, I'll post from time to time when I've done some more tests, on battery consumption etc.... Until then, have a good ride, everyone! Edited September 26, 2019 by GyroRideRz 9 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted November 28, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 28, 2018 I hope this ends well... 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUCMania Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Some battles are not worth winning. Knowing how to win a battle = smart. Knowing which battle is not worth winning = wisdom. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GyroRideRz Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 4 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: I hope this ends well... I hope to but i'm riding very carefully 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GyroRideRz Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 1 hour ago, EUCMania said: Some battles are not worth winning. Knowing how to win a battle = smart. Knowing which battle is not worth winning = wisdom. first wheel top speed was 12km/h, if some people doesn't test it faster, even you you would not have buy one today. Sometimes is interesting to test limit of things, but yes it's need to do it smart. When you buy a car that can drive at 170km/h, you don't necessarily drive at 170km/h, but it's reassuring to know that if you need it you can do it and especially that if this car can handle 170km/h perfectly, well there will be really no problem doing so by driving at 130km/h, and that's very reassuring. It's the same here. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post palachzzz Posted November 28, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 28, 2018 (edited) Hi, Thanks @MRN76, I have firmware with 50 km/h (51 as Ninebot App shows) limit. I did 50.7km/h on my Z10 and got tiltback WL screenshot: Speed and current on this track (track ~5km, cut from whole 16.5 km track), I got tiltback at peak near the end of graph Z10 battery, main board and motor accepts current up to ~70A (maybe more, it mine current peak, sorted by current): Edited November 28, 2018 by palachzzz 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GyroRideRz Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 @palachzzz Did you get the feeling that you are loan once you hit 47km/h ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post palachzzz Posted November 29, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted November 29, 2018 No, I did not feel anything like it. You shouldn't push the pedals hard to get him to go faster. Z10 has an interesting feature, if you accelerate fast enough, it starts to vibrate by pedals. It gives very good feedback, which you need to feel. Before changing the firmware, I traveled for a long time at the maximum speed (43-44km\h) at the same trip part everyday, and when you exceed a certain threshold (44-45km\h), the wheel starts to accelerate to make tiltback, and this results in the appearance of this vibration, so I feel the tiltback even before it begins. I was guided by the same principles when I unlocked 50. I did not try to reach any speed, I was just riding, and I felt the wheel, when it started to vibrate, I stopped accelerating immediately. Now I'm going faster by 4-5 km\h on this part of my everyday trip, than it was previously 2 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GyroRideRz Posted November 29, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted November 29, 2018 Ok, thanks for the answer and details Today with low pressure, i haven't had the feeling i was talking about, i've ride at 51 idle and wheel very stable. Really great. I'm not really push it hard, i ride really carefully taking attention to all little variation of the wheel. I love this wheel so much, it's sick :-D 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 @GyroRideRz out of curiosity, what is your rider weight? @palachzzz same question as above, rider weight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palachzzz Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 @houseofjob, ~85kg (~187 lbs) with backpack and protection gear , 2.5 bar in tire (36 PSI) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Just out of interest...what is the "max cutout Speed" of the Z10? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palachzzz Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, US69 said: Just out of interest...what is the "max cutout Speed" of the Z10? But it is also software cut-out, the real motor cut-out little bit more - about 81.5 km/h on full battery Edited November 30, 2018 by palachzzz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 50 minutes ago, palachzzz said: But it is also software cut-out, the real motor cut-out little bit more - about 81.5 km/h on full battery And on low battery? As Speed is voltage related... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GyroRideRz Posted November 30, 2018 Author Share Posted November 30, 2018 12 hours ago, houseofjob said: @GyroRideRz out of curiosity, what is your rider weight? Full equipped about 90kg, riding beetween 30 Psi and 38 Psi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palachzzz Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 55 minutes ago, US69 said: And on low battery? As Speed is voltage related... Sure, it's absolutely linear depending on voltage. That's why your question looks pretty strange to me.. If you know that at 57.75V (full battery) speed is 81.5, than you should know that at 46v (about zero battery) it will be (81.5/57.75)*46 = 64.9 km/h. And screen when it somewhere in the middle with 50.67V (81.5/57.75 * 50.67 = 71.5 km/h): 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girth Brooks Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 @palachzzz is that wheel log pic above from your modded Z10?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palachzzz Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) Yes, but screenshot was made with firmware with 65 km/h limit. The main thing, that ninebot Z has software cutoff (not hardware as other wheels, they cut it off when motor reach maximum possible speed for certain voltage), Ninebot Z6 has cutoff at speed 51.5 km/h (at any battery level), Ninebot Z10 has cutoff at 61.5km/h (at any battery level), so it seems that it is software cutoff with maximum_tiltback_speed+16.5km/h. We (with @MRN76) tried to find real hardware cutoff, but it's not possible to set speed more than 65 km/h (because of two-byte number limitation - 65535) This screenshot was made with firmware with 65km/h unlock, and we get 80.5km/h, it was little bit less than we expected (81.5), but I tried to do it with not full battery, and at half battery I got true motor hardware limit - 71.4km/h, and cutoff was tottaly different than when it was software-defined (it rotated about second on maximum speed, and only after that it turns off, when it was software it turns off as fast at it reach certain speed). But now I use firmware with 50 km\h limit, with cutoff at 66.5 speed (at almost any battery level also) Edited December 1, 2018 by palachzzz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GyroRideRz Posted December 1, 2018 Author Share Posted December 1, 2018 (edited) @palachzzz Thanks for that greats details and explanations ! For now i ride at 50km/h iddle with the 56km/h limit firmware and 30Psi. The wheel is really stable, only thing that's a problem is braking distance, but i'm not sure there is anything do to in the software to improved it. Edited December 1, 2018 by GyroRideRz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chriull Posted December 1, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 1, 2018 @GyroRideRz, as you have maybe noticed some days ago we took the decision to remove tools like ninetools. We rediscussed our decision and changed our mind, so that it will be enough to move such topics into the commercial or DIY sections with the disclaimer here "nor are we liable for the safety of whatever is being sold/posted here." So this test report is moved to https://forum.electricunicycle.org/forum/10-mods-repairs-diy/. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GyroRideRz Posted December 1, 2018 Author Share Posted December 1, 2018 @Chriull It's okay for me thanks. I applaud your decision to not finally delete and ban this kind of discussion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaiKi Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 (edited) Did i understand that correctly?! There no "low battery" throttling anymore? I dont need a faster wheel, but on loger trips i hate it to drive much slower with battery under 30% on my way back home. Edited December 2, 2018 by MaiKi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRN76 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 7 hours ago, MaiKi said: Did i understand that correctly?! There no "low battery" throttling anymore? I dont need a faster wheel, but on loger trips i hate it to drive much slower with battery under 30% on my way back home. You understood correctly. All limits are shifted up to 10 km/h. The only thing that I did not touch was the limit when the battery was discharged below 10% and it is 8km/h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jerome Posted December 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 2, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, MRN76 said: You understood correctly. All limits are shifted up to 10 km/h. The only thing that I did not touch was the limit when the battery was discharged below 10% and it is 8km/h Wheel makers don't throttle speed or set full performance throttling just to limit speed. They do it because speed is only one variable in the power requirement equations. It takes power to keep the wheel balance. The more your press forward the more power it takes to keep the wheel level. Sooo when you are pushing the wheel to go faster than it was intended you are increasing the battery drain two fold. 1. power required to make the wheel go faster 2. power required keep the wheel balance. If a bump, sudden tail-wind, or any other act of man or nature forces the battery and motor to give out more than they can, a cut-off will occur. I find people who put faith in their protective gear are very reluctant to have a friend drive them in a car at 20 - 35 mph and then open the door and "dive out geared up". Please note that I don't condemn "adults" for taking risks, just because they seem unnecessary by "my" standards. I ride a motorcycle (don't own a car) and that mode of transport seems unnecessarily risky by the majority of people I know. What I fear, however, is that the "risk" takers will be the cry babies that blame the machines when things go wrong. If you ride a EUC you can get hurt regardless of skill, safety gear and precautions. When you "tinker" with said technology then the possibility of getting hurt increases in general, even if not for the "lucky". I wish you and your followers great fun and success. Please however, don't ruin it for the rest of us with threads and videos about how the machine failed, or certain brands are dangerous or with lawsuits. Ride safe. Edited December 2, 2018 by Jerome 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palachzzz Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) @Jerome, I saw the firmware code that is responsible for throttling, it is not related to power, throttling depends on the percentage of battery and max_speed (pretty simple). Moreover, this is only one of the limiters, there are others which depend on power and other things which still work on custom fw. But you are right, everyone should understand what and why he is doing and which risks and dangers this carries. Edited December 3, 2018 by palachzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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