Jump to content

Upgrade from V8 - hilly country!


Recommended Posts

So...

I've put 200 km on my V8, (my first wheel) unlocked it to 30 km/h, and and am ready for an upgrade. It'll probably have to wait a bit, but I've been doing some research in preparation and would love some feedback!

In terms of my requirements:

  • Speed: Ridiculous speeds are not what I'm after; a 35 km/h cruising speed is fine, but I reckon I'd like to aim for a 50-ish km/h max. speed for overtaking purposes and to have an ample safety margin in terms of overleaning, accidentally hitting bumps at speed, etc.
  • TORQUE: The main decisive factor. I live in a very hilly area, and although the V8's 30 km/h cruising speed is fine on flatter roads, and I'm impressed how well it does going up steep hills, that's not what it's made for and it does so at a sluggish pace. Aside from being able to maintain cruising speed even up hills and having a wheel that I won't melt in 6 months on this type of terrain, TORQUE is a must for in case I need to accelerate, for any reason, half way up a hill, etc. 
  • Battery/range: In the long term, I reckon I'll be doing a lot of mixed riding, from urban use to countryside, offroad, etc., so I'm after something with a decent range for touring too, and with the battery power to match the torque, needless to say (although those go hand in hand in wheel design anyway)

So, my main candidates are:

  • IM V10: Was originally on the list, and is definitely a good wheel from all I've read (and seen), but not sure it ticks all the boxes. 
  • KS18XL: Ticks the speed and range boxes, and from what I've seen, seems to be a very well balanced wheel (comfort, pedals, maneuverability), but I haven't read anything about the torque. I'm not too keen on the aggressive throttling and tiltback of the KS18L, although the XL's extra battery capacity should make battery-related throttling a rare occurrence in daily riding...(Update: confirmed > based on houseofjob's review, the throttling threshold has been lowered to sub-30% battery). Love the matte look and lights too, as well as the handle.
  • GW MS3+ (v3.7, 1600Wh): Probably my top contender. Ticks all the boxes, I'm guessing with additional torque that the 18XL probably lacks. The 18' wheel is perfect (like with the KS18XL), as having learned on the V8, which is a tall wheel, it shouldn't be too hard, and I don't think will be much of an issue for city riding. What I don't like is the pedals' inward tilt & lack of a mudguard. Don't mind the lack of kill switch, as it isn't something I'll be using often. Have also read that it's a bit top-heavy, which isn't ideal for maneuverability. 
  • GW MSX2: Ticks all the same boxes as the MS3+. Range is better, and despite battery size, am guessing that with the MOSFET TO-247, torque doesn't suffer. Probably better for offroading, but a 19" wheel might not be the best for city riding. 

 

In short, I'm after an all-rounder that I can use for anything, that's powerful, safe (margin for overlean and overcurrent when not near top speed), and comfortable for daily use, whether in the countryside or in the city. What are you guys' 2 cents? Folks who have ridden them...what am I missing, overlooking or need to take into consideration? 

Thanks!

Edited by travsformation
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 58
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

All 3 are good choices. I like all 3 I am a little concerned about your statement about the V8 being sluggish going up hills.  What is slowing you down? If you are not being slowed down by beeps

That's a really good way to put it Reasonable people who want to use their wheel as an allrounder (handle! lift sensor!) get the 18XL, cool people get the MSX and save a bit of money and do crazy

After months of planning my next wheel, and really salivating over the Z10, I finally decided (last night) and pulled the trigger on the 18L. I loved the feel of this wheel when I got to try it on a g

Posted Images

That took about as long as expected;)

My vote is on the MSX or 18XL. Depending on price and just which one you like better. Hearing of hills and torque, I'm partial towards the MCM5 as the ultimate mountain fun machine, but it doesn't seem to be what you want. Maybe you can replace your V8 with a MCM5?:) 18 inchers (any of them) will have less (initial) torque than your V8 and you'll have to push them more to get the same effect.

Do NOT get a ms3, the electronics are the most fryworthy on hills. They'll predictably die without warning on very high stress. Here's a video with a mosfet blown, but motor cable failure is as likely. They were nice wheels (and are nice wheels, like my ACM with the same electronics), but are outdated technology now, and definitely unsafe for hill riding.

The MSX, in contrast, has been car-push and Marty-overheat-hill tested and seems beyond any concern. Here's yet another successful hill test of the MSX:

The 18XL will be Marty-overheat-hill tested soon but I don't expect any surprises there, it'll be good.

All (current, comparable) wheels with the same diameter will have pretty much the same torque. I don't believe you will find any notable non-ergonomic differences here.

Not sure where you get "ms3 v3.7" or "MSX2" from:confused1:

--

The real right wheel for you would be a 16 incher as powerful and with as good electronics as the MSX (or 18XL, I presume). Because that would give you more torque (I also think 16 inchers are more fun). But that doesn't exist yet, so your best bet are its bigger brothers - MSX or 18XL.

The Tesla exists in a sort of limbo between "unsure about electronics" and "exactly what you want". I hope GW comes out with a new 16 incher as described above soon, that would fix that problem.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@RockyTop  Don't be concerned, it's because of how steep (and long) the hills are (pictures here). It's not that the V8 can't manage them, but as momentum decreases and incline increases (say, a 1km 10º hill that increases to 20º halfway), current peaks and my ability to accelerate (to compensate for the loss of speed) decreases (warnings and beeps). I weight about 77 kg with all gear on,  and recently learned (the hard way) that on this kind of inclines, my overlean margin is minimum, so part of it definitely has to do with me. But at the same time, I don't think overcurrent is limited to acceleration, but also to torque, so at times it looks like I'm asking the wheel for more power than it can deliver even if it's just to maintain speed on an increasing incline. 

Or, to summarize, I don't think the V8 is designed for this kind of terrain...

BTW, great idiot-proof explanation! Thanks for the video!

Edited by travsformation
Link to post
Share on other sites

Just curious why you disregarded the V10f. From what I heard it performs really well on hills, because It feels like an 18 inch rather than 16. Does not overpower, smooth ride... Just ordered my V10f :) . I feel like there is a lot of hate on his wheel, mainly due to its weight not being able to provide off-the-line acceleration. It is a very smooth, good-looking wheel. and especially if your looking for safety, this well check all the boxes. I bought it because I live in a city, and I read It was super stable at low speeds, and carving was good. Can't really speak from experience, as this is my very first wheel ever, super excited  

Edited by Epic53
Link to post
Share on other sites

@Epic53 Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the V10F is a great wheel, I can only say good things about my V8 , and in all honesty, would prefer a 16" wheel, but I'd like to go for the highest range possible, and would rather get something with a bigger battery to prevent overcurrent issues. As I said, this area is ridiculously and every Wh counts :) 

Then again, based on what @RockyTop said, maybe the 18-inchers extra weight and size-related dynamics cause them to require much more power and in the end, that levels out the playing field. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

That took about as long as expected;)

My vote is on the MSX or 18XL. Depending on price and just which one you like better. Hearing of hills and torque, I'm partial towards the MCM5 as the ultimate mountain fun machine, but it doesn't seem to be what you want. Maybe you can replace your V8 with a MCM5?:) 18 inchers (any of them) will have less (initial) torque than your V8 and you'll have to push them more to get the same effect.

The real right wheel for you would be a 16 incher as powerful and with as good electronics as the MSX (or 18XL, I presume). Because that would give you more torque (I also think 16 inchers are more fun). But that doesn't exist yet, so your best bet are its bigger brothers - MSX or 18XL.

Hahaha yeah, am comfortable cruising near top speed but am cautious to reduce speed on bumpier roads or roads I don't know--don't fancy another faceplant. Wouldn't mind being able to cruise at the speed I'm comfortable at either, without getting constant tiltback and max. speed warnings, or having to be mindful of my speed (I doubt my average riding speed would be above 30-35 km/h regardless of the new wheel's top speed). 

The MCM5 is a 14-incher, right? With the kind of bumps we get here, I'd rather a 16-18" wheel, especially in terms of comfort (and range). If I could afford to, I'd love to have several wheels around the house--one for every occasion--, but since that's not an option, I'm aiming for the perfect all-rounder; as you said, a 16" MSX would be the perfect wheel for me!

13 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Do NOT get a ms3, the electronics are the most fryworthy on hills. They'll predictably die without warning on very high stress. Here's a video with a mosfet blown, but motor cable failure is as likely. They were nice wheels (and are nice wheels, like my ACM with the same electronics), but are outdated technology now, and definitely unsafe for hill riding.

Thanks! I guess I'll cross that one off the list then...Thanks for taking the time to post the videos!

13 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The MSX, in contrast, has been car-push and Marty-overheat-hill tested and seems beyond any concern. 

The 18XL will be Marty-overheat-hill tested soon but I don't expect any surprises there, it'll be good.

All (current, comparable) wheels with the same diameter will have pretty much the same torque. I don't believe you will find any notable non-ergonomic differences here.

Duly noted, cheers! So the list has been reduced to 2 wheels! :) How much difference do you reckon the extra 1 inch on the tire makes for tighter turns and city riding? (+ the top-heaviness. Is that an issue in terms of carving?)

13 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Not sure where you get "ms3 v3.7" or "MSX2" from:confused1:

My local distributor calls the MS3s+ (1300Wh version) the 3.7, I'm guessing due to firmware version. Link here

For the MSX, it makes 3 dictinctions: X1 (650Wh battery, 65 km range), X2 (1300Wh bat., 130km range) and X3 (1600Wh bat., 160 km range), tests performed wuth a 70 kg rider and 20 km/h cruising speed. Link here

13 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The Tesla exists in a sort of limbo between "unsure about electronics" and "exactly what you want". I hope GW comes out with a new 16 incher as described above soon, that would fix that problem.

Yeah, a Tesla with improved electronics would be great. Or a 16" MSX, or a KS16XL with a 2000W motor and 1300Wh+ battery, those would definitely hit the sweet spot for me!

Now the next dilemma is what to do with the V8: if I can convince my girlfriend to take the leap of letting go of the wall and actually learning to ride, I'll keep it. I'll sell the idea as "spending quality time together outdoors" :efee612b4b:  If not, I'll probably sell it and be 500€+ closer to getting my next wheel :)

Edited by travsformation
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, travsformation said:

Then again, based on what @RockyTop said, maybe the 18-inchers extra weight and size-related dynamics cause them to require much more power and in the end, that levels out the playing field. 

In the end the wheel only needs to carry you and it up the hill. The wheel does not have to work harder. (other than the fact that the wheel it self weighs more.) It is just harder for the rider to gain an advantage over it. 

The larger wheels do bother some people on the hills. I also live in a hilly area and I have just learned to move one foot forward when climbing hills. I switched back to my KS16 for a day for old times sake and was ready to switch back after just one mile.  (too late for that) 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RockyTop said:

In the end the wheel only needs to carry you and it up the hill. The wheel does not have to work harder. (other than the fact that the wheel it self weighs more.) It is just harder for the rider to gain an advantage over it. 

I think I can live with that. The KS18XL and GW MSX both have pretty big pedals so I should be able to lean in confidently.

1 hour ago, RockyTop said:

I also live in a hilly area and I have just learned to move one foot forward when climbing hills

I do that too. I align both feet (more or less) with the rear of the pedal; it's particularly useful for going downhill and digging my heels in as I lean back, and have found that it's not too uncomfortable when accelerating (on the V8), although bigger pedals would definitely help with the comfort. For offroading, though, I tend to reposition my feet more towards the center.

BTW, I did some slightly more aggressive accelerating uphill today and the V8 did deliver more power, but warned me a fair bit more often too, so I think it's me trying to make it easier on the wheel; pushing it to the limit on just one hill when the rest of the route is flat is one thing; pushing it all the time because there's hardly a flat stretch to be seen is another...I don't want to fry my wheel before I've got the net one!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't worry about overcurrent. The wheel will just beep at you and you stop and go a bit back uphill and it's good.

6 hours ago, travsformation said:

Then again, based on what @RockyTop said, maybe the 18-inchers extra weight and size-related dynamics cause them to require much more power and in the end, that levels out the playing field. 

No. All wheels (regardless of tire size) need pretty much exactly the same amount of power for the same riding conditions. It may seem bigger wheels need more power, but that's simply because you tend to go faster with them (because you easily can) and wind drag (the main power draw of EUCing at cruising speeds) grows disproportionately with speed.

5 hours ago, travsformation said:

How much difference do you reckon the extra 1 inch on the tire makes for tighter turns and city riding? (+ the top-heaviness. Is that an issue in terms of carving?)

I don't think there's much of a difference due to tire size, though the MSX wide tire seems to be very comfortable. Differences will be more to ergonomics etc. Not sure if it's true, but some people say the MSX is keeping itself more upright than the 18(X)L.

5 hours ago, travsformation said:

My local distributor calls the MS3s+ (1300Wh version) the 3.7, I'm guessing due to firmware version. Link here

For the MSX, it makes 3 dictinctions: X1 (650Wh battery, 65 km range), X2 (1300Wh bat., 130km range) and X3 (1600Wh bat., 160 km range), tests performed wuth a 70 kg rider and 20 km/h cruising speed. Link here

Not sure if that's the Tesla-ized ms3, but in the end the Tesla-level electronics are just not as nice as the TO-247 boards and (just like the Tesla) you (I) wouldn't want to trust them on extreme hills.

Also, I know the price upgrade will be disproportionate, but if you go for the MSX, get the 1600Wh, not the 1300Wh (as you originally mentioned the 1300Wh "X2"). Learn from my mistakes:efee8319ab:

--

Hard decision, the MSX is great (I just love these electronics) but the 18XL is a really strong contender - nice build, nice pedals, nice features, etc. So as always, if you can't decice, get the one your instinct tells you to get.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Don't worry about overcurrent. The wheel will just beep at you and you stop and go a bit back uphill and it's good.

Yeah, no more buttplants on the V8 so far. I usually start going down the hill, turn around after 100m, go back up, then down again. That's usually enough, but sometimes I get an "Overload, please get off" warning and the titlback is so aggressive that it forces me to stop completely, and once I get off the wheel, it switches off the gyroscope. So I just switch it off and on again, then go back up the hill, and problem solved.

16 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

No. All wheels (regardless of tire size) need pretty much exactly the same amount of power for the same riding conditions. It may seem bigger wheels need more power, but that's simply because you tend to go faster with them (because you easily can) and wind drag (the main power draw of EUCing at cruising speeds) grows disproportionately with speed. 

Thanks, noted! Looks like I'm going to be getting an 18 or 19", so I guess I'll just have to see for myself. :)

16 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I don't think there's much of a difference due to tire size, though the MSX wide tire seems to be very comfortable. Differences will be more to ergonomics etc. Not sure if it's true, but some people say the MSX is keeping itself more upright than the 18(X)L.

I'm guessing mostly in terms of pedal (inward) tilt, which I'm not too keen on, but people say you get used to it pretty quickly. Will have to give them both a try!

16 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Not sure if that's the Tesla-ized ms3, but in the end the Tesla-level electronics are just not as nice as the TO-247 boards and (just like the Tesla) you (I) wouldn't want to trust them on extreme hills.

Also, I know the price upgrade will be disproportionate, but if you go for the MSX, get the 1600Wh, not the 1300Wh (as you originally mentioned the 1300Wh "X2"). Learn from my mistakes:efee8319ab:

The MSX they sell has the TO-247 board. The question is the 1300 (X2) or 1600Wh (X3) version. How much of a difference do you find there to be? Does it only affect range, or also torque and acceleration (in theory, motor rating is the same). Because the price difference is considerable...

16 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Hard decision, the MSX is great (I just love these electronics) but the 18XL is a really strong contender - nice build, nice pedals, nice features, etc. So as always, if you can't decice, get the one your instinct tells you to get.

Good thing is, my distributor has a physical shop, so I can actually get to test the wheel before buying it. :)
 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/27/2018 at 7:35 PM, travsformation said:

KS18XL: Ticks the speed and range boxes, and from what I've seen, seems to be a very well balanced wheel (comfort, pedals, maneuverability), but I haven't read anything about the torque. I'm not too keen on the aggressive throttling and tiltback of the KS18L, although the XL's extra battery capacity should make battery-related throttling a rare occurrence in daily riding...(Update: confirmed > based on houseofjob's review, the throttling threshold has been lowered to sub-30% battery). Love the matte look and lights too, as well as the handle.

Because XL is the same as L in regard to the motor and controller, I can share my experiences with KS-18L. I've been riding for many hours on a hilly roads of Bieszczady Mountains. Almost no horizontal road, only hills. Constantly going uphill, then downhill and again. Not even a one warning, no throttling.

bieszczady_10procent.thumb.jpg.b64324dcd831511ece8bce29d2b1ef41.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, travsformation said:

The question is the 1300 (X2) or 1600Wh (X3) version. How much of a difference do you find there to be? Does it only affect range, or also torque and acceleration (in theory, motor rating is the same). Because the price difference is considerable...

Zero difference except for range. All the wheel sees is the battery drops its voltage faster, which might very well just be from a higher speed or an extra connected light or whatever, but the rest (battery config etc) is exactly the same. So the wheel can't even tell which battery it is - 1300 or 1600.

1300Wh is a solid 65km wheel, 1600Wh is a solid 80km wheel. Long range vs. better long range:efee47c9c8: I know the upgrade price is crazy, but consider it. I'm not saying do it, but consider it until you do it:efee8319ab: Both wheels weigh exactly the same (and are anyways exactly the same outside of range and price).

In seriousness, what are the prices? It only says 1800€ for the MSX but not for which model.

And what would the 18XL price be?

6 hours ago, travsformation said:

Good thing is, my distributor has a physical shop, so I can actually get to test the wheel before buying it. :)

Wow, physical shop and you can visit it! Lucky!

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Seba said:

Because XL is the same as L in regard to the motor and controller, I can share my experiences with KS-18L. I've been riding for many hours on a hilly roads of Bieszczady Mountains. Almost no horizontal road, only hills. Constantly going uphill, then downhill and again. Not even a one warning, no throttling.

Great, thanks for the info! Based on that, throttling on the XL will be even less likely. Was real range do you get out of the 18L on that kind of terrain?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Great, thanks for the info! Based on that, throttling on the XL will be even less likely. Was real range do you get out of the 18L on that kind of terrain?

I got about 40 - 45 km of range when going with moderate speeds of about 25 - 30 km/h, with about 30 % of charge at the end of riding (measured when idle).

Link to post
Share on other sites

From my experience, mountains barely need extra power because you automatically ride slower which balances the extra power requirements on hills. What you lose from gaining height, you win from less drag (and some power is regenerated downhills). It depends on how fast you ride.

For comparison, a 1000Wh wheel would be expected to do 50-55km in the flat.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Zero difference except for range. [...] 1300Wh is a solid 65km wheel, 1600Wh is a solid 80km wheel. Long range vs. better long range:efee47c9c8: I know the upgrade price is crazy, but consider it. I'm not saying do it, but consider it until you do it:efee8319ab: Both wheels weigh exactly the same (and are anyways exactly the same outside of range and price).

Only range? Cool. Hmmm....will definitely consider while waiting...but I can see the value in going for the longer range, despite the price tag. More wiggle margin for more aggressive riding too (if the extra 15 km range isn't required). 

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

n seriousness, what are the prices? It only says 1800€ for the MSX but not for which model.

And what would the 18XL price be?

I'll have to ask. No idea about the 18XL; and the 1800€ price tag for the MSX...that can't be for the 650Wh version can it?
 

1 hour ago, Seba said:

I got about 40 - 45 km of range when going with moderate speeds of about 25 - 30 km/h, with about 30 % of charge at the end of riding (measured when idle).

That's for the L, right? Then the XL should be in the 60ish range on same terrain (depending on how much downhill and regen is involved in the route, of course). On the V8 I did 16 km today, with 38% battery when I got home and an avg. riding speed of 22.4 km/h. On other routes with steeper and longer downhills, I've gotten up too 20 km with more than 60% battery left. Have figured out that when I know I'm going to be pushing my range, I can plan the route accordingly to make sure I extend the range. It's crazy the amount of regen you can get on these things...

 

Edited by travsformation
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/28/2018 at 11:17 AM, travsformation said:

For the MSX, it makes 3 dictinctions: X1 (650Wh battery, 65 km range), X2 (1300Wh bat., 130km range) and X3 (1600Wh bat., 160 km range), tests performed wuth a 70 kg rider and 20 km/h cruising speed.

10 Wh/km? Never achieved that, don't trust these figures. The best distance I've ever got from KS-18L with 1036 Wh battery was about 67 km, but the speed was limited to about 15 km/h, without wind, trying to be most energy efficient and the last 4 kilometers with pedestrian speed and constant tiltbacks. Battery drained to zero. As @meepmeepmayer wrote, it's best to use safe value of 20 Wh/km to estimate real range without sacrificing speed and comfort. Because techology is the same regardless of wheel maker, only battery capacity matters. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, travsformation said:

I'll have to ask. No idea about the 18XL; and the 1800€ price tag for the MSX...that can't be for the 650Wh version can it?

It must be the 1300Wh price. I can only find the 1600Wh MSX for around 2100-2200€ everywhere. 300€/GPB extra price for (barely) 300 extra Wh is the usual crazy markup.

And the French sell the 650Wh for 1700, and their prices are always crazy (2500€ for 1600Wh:eff04a58a6:), so your dealer won't be even worse.

So it's the 1300Wh price with 99% certainty.

Anyways, if the extra is up to 350€, I say it is worth it. Would have been for me, in hindsight. But of course it is a crazy price for a little more capacity. You'll have to know.

Btw, if we go by the fact that the 18XL costs more than the MSX1600, expect 2400€ for it:eff05cf9bc::efee8c29ce:

4 minutes ago, Seba said:

Because techology is the same regardless of wheel maker, only battery capacity matters. 

This.

-

My range formula is like this: battery capacity *0.8/15 is the higher end of range, battery capacity * 0.8/16 the lower end of range.

The idea is: you go from 100% to 20% battery (close to 0% under load, and beeps and so on, you can't ride further), so you get to use 80% of the capacity*,  and for this assumption 15Wh/km is (very) optimistic and 16Wh/km is realistic for an ~80kg ~30kph rider. (Please note, these are not real, physical numbers, that's just a model with some matching fantasy numbers that gives a good result for pretty much any wheel.)

Examples: "1600"Wh wheel has range between 1554Wh * 0.8 / 16Wh/km = 77.7km and 1554Wh * 0.8 / 15Wh/km = 82.88km. "1300"Wh gives you between 1288*0.8/16 = 64.4km and 1288*0.8/15 = 68.7km.

So 80km wheel vs 60-65km wheel.

* Not really 80% of capacity, 80% of voltage which is more than 80% of capacity, but it doesn't matter because this is an arbitrary assumption anyways.

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, travsformation said:

That's for the L, right? Then the XL should be in the 60ish range on same terrain (depending on how much downhill and regen is involved in the route, of course).

Yes, that's for L. XL should give you more than 60 km of range. And there is one thing worth to remember - larger battery is better, even if yo don't need such range for everyday rides. Remember, battery is discharged in constant power mode. So as the voltage drops, current rises. So battery discharge rate increases as you ride. It takes some time to discharge from 100 % t0 70%, but from 70 % to 40 % it gets much quicker and from 40 % to 10 % is fast as hell :) Repeated deep discharge will significantly decrease your battery life. If you only use 30 % of charge, your battery will last much longer.

Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Seba said:

10 Wh/km? Never achieved that, don't trust these figures. The best distance I've ever got from KS-18L with 1036 Wh battery was about 67 km, but the speed was limited to about 15 km/h, without wind, trying to be most energy efficient and the last 4 kilometers with pedestrian speed and constant tiltbacks. Battery drained to zero. As @meepmeepmayer wrote, it's best to use safe value of 20 Wh/km to estimate real range without sacrificing speed and comfort. Because techology is the same regardless of wheel maker, only battery capacity matters.

That was more of an anecdotal case than anything else. Took a route where the first half was almost all uphill, the regen all the way back, but it's the only time I've ever gotten those figures. Can't remember what route I took either :efee612b4b:  (also, was during the first week of riding, so I might have gotten that reading immediately after dismounting the wheel, without giving it time to idle, so it may be fairly innacucrate)

19 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

So it's the 1300Wh price with 99% certainty. [...] I can only find the 1600Wh MSX for around 2100-2200€ everywhere. [...] Anyways, if the extra is up to 350€, I say it is worth it. Would have been for me, in hindsight.

Btw, if we go by the fact that the 18XL costs more than the MSX1600, expect 2400€ for it

To the price...ouch, for both cases! :eff05cf9bc:

Yeah, I agree...all the same, it's worth going for the extra battery capacity, as @Seba suggested too (not just for the range). And thanks for the formula, @meepmeepmayer, will paste that into my "EUC" notebook in Evernote! 

Side question: In terms of battery life, I generally don't go under 30% on th V8, and have rarely been under 20%. What would a broad-ish rule of thumb be in terms of max. battery discharge for those purposes? (Using only 30% of charge would be ideal, but on a 60 km/range wheel, that would be not doing more than 18 km at a time). I vaguely recall reading somewhere that it's best not to go below 20%, while 30% is best to extend battery life

Back to KS18XL vs MSX:

What are the main differences to consider between these two wheels? And, in your personal opinion, what are the pros, cons or personal preferences that would make you favor one over the other?
 

Edited by travsformation
Link to post
Share on other sites

The range varies depending on the weight and aggressiveness of the rider. My daughter and I have the same wheel and ride the same distance side by side yet after 38 miles I am at 29% and she is at 65%  ( MS3+  220 lbs vs 120 lbs. ) She floats around while I am carving and jumping speed bumps.  

Huh?! ..... I remember when I walked beside her while she ran circles around me using my arms as swings and a jungle gym.  The roles are reversing!  I guess it will be my turn to wear the diapers soon. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Back to KS18XL vs MSX:

What are the main differences to consider between these two wheels? And, in your personal opinion, what are the pros, cons or personal preferences that would make you favor one over the other?

By differences, I mean the kind of things I can't seem to find covered very thoroughly in reviews; small, but maybe significant things. How are the headlights? Would you use either of these wheels' stock headlights to ride in the dark? (I added a mounted bicycle light to the V8, and MAN does that make a difference!). How visible/accurate is the brake light in daytime? Riding comfort...anything you think of, no matter how subjective :)

Much, much appreciated!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think all the worrying about the battery is pointless. By the time you notice even a slight change, your wheel is ooooooooooold. Don't do the bad stuff (don't charge to 100% and keep it there for a long time, especially at high temperatures; don't keep it at empty for a long time; don't use/charge if the battery is below 5°C) and don't baby it otherwise. Enjoy the wheel and use it. But opinions differ.

30 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Back to KS18XL vs MSX

I assume you will want the wheel soon and find some peace, but since the new Gotway 17 incher was shown... I guess in 2 or 3 months it will be available. Do you consider it?

Some "hidden" details I can recall:

  • MSX is dead quiet, 18XL has a whine.
  • Lights are both shitty for serious usage (in traffic, at night, rain, etc) so you might want an extra one anyways.
  • MSX is more manly:efefd8a002: and has a little speed edge, 18XL the overall nicer package with build quality and features.
  • People say the 18XL is more ergonomic than the MSX.
  • People say the MSX keeps itself more upright, and is more stable and comfy (tire) in comparison (to the 18L at that time).
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...