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Battery won't charge past 91%


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9 hours ago, mcinnocent said:

Thx!
I already have send an email to service@imscv.com many months ago but did not get any answer 😢

I hope Cecily will help me 🤔

Tomorrow is chinese new year - one should not expect an answer around this time... ;(

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I have contacted them on email adress service@imscv.com. And this happened in October 2022. So, after my first email they contacted me after two working days. In total I have almost 40 emails for this problem because I asked them everything from this forum about that battery/charging problem...

To conclude all, what they said is.... ur techs said for V10 range, if voltage is more than 83V under battery level 100%, this is normal.

I might add that process of calibration was made about maybe 8-9 times in 2 days.  Seems to me, after three months of riding, that my euc works normally and range is very good.

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On 1/23/2023 at 2:00 PM, AlenP said:

I have contacted them on email adress service@imscv.com. And this happened in October 2022. So, after my first email they contacted me after two working days. In total I have almost 40 emails for this problem because I asked them everything from this forum about that battery/charging problem...

To conclude all, what they said is.... ur techs said for V10 range, if voltage is more than 83V under battery level 100%, this is normal.

I might add that process of calibration was made about maybe 8-9 times in 2 days.  Seems to me, after three months of riding, that my euc works normally and range is very good.

Could you make calibration by yourself or did Inmotion calibrate the wheel so often? how does this work? Is calibration done when wheel is connected to the app? Could you explain how the process was done? Thx!

I hope they contact me also when Chinese New Year festival is over!

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9 hours ago, mcinnocent said:

Could you make calibration by yourself or did Inmotion calibrate the wheel so often? how does this work? Is calibration done when wheel is connected to the app? Could you explain how the process was done? Thx!

I hope they contact me also when Chinese New Year festival is over!

Inmotion calibrate wheel remotely and connect through the app, of course  if you let them. Well, it didnt work the first time to the end, so they have tried several times (6-9 times) to managed 100%. You dont have to do anything. Now I m  satisfied with my range and just like I said, my range is very good because I m heavy rider 97-99 kg with equipment. What I notice about batery is, after full charging my battery shows full capacity up to almost first 20 km, maybe even more. Because od that, my theory is that my battery is in good condition  and problem is in software or something about software. Maybe I m wrong...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Problem seems now to be solved, thx to all who helped!

A few days after Chinese new year festival I got an email from Rachel ( service@imscv.com)

Here the important sentences in our conversation, which may help other people with that problem:

 

Rachel wrote:

Your wheel seems need calibration
please fully charge the euc until the charging light is green, 
……………
connect the APP, and long press the Diagnosis icon to enter the online remote diagnosis mode.please stay on that page until we finish the process.
…………….
we finish the calibration , please check now. battery level and voltage should be normal now.

 

So the most important thing is to tell them your serial number, then connect your mobile app with your fully charged wheel.

Then you will get the same time in contact to Inmotion service

Then in the app go to settings, Klick on diagnose

after that long press (long is important!) the diagnose icon and after that you will be connected to the Inmotion service team.

Then they will proceed with the calibration process….. the wheel will beep sometimes….. if you loose connection long press again the diagnose icon as before and it will start again, maybe you have to do this more than one time….

 

After that whole procedure my wheel shows charging level 100% :-)

 

the first time I was riding the charging level was staying at 100% for the first 10-15 km, then charging level goes down normal.

I compared the riding distance with my brothers Inmotion v10F and it seemed now to be the same.

😀👍🏼

Edited by mcinnocent
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  • 3 months later...

Hey everyone,

I have a similar problem. My wheel stops charging at 70% at about 78.5V and the charger shows green. The wheel is still in charging mode. I´ve done the calibration process already with Inmotion support but this doesn´t help in my case. When I let the wheel let rest disconnected from the charger a couple of hours the charging process is possible to continue. The battery seems beside that quite ok. The wheel is 2 years old and has 800 km on the clock. Ranges of 35km are realistic, so I don´t believe in any dead or weak cells. I assume the mainboard gives a wrong charging stop signal to the bms but the question is why. The charger seems ok and give 84.2V output voltage.

Has anyone observed similar behaviour with the V10/V10F? Thanks!

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2 hours ago, UniCycler said:

so I don´t believe in any dead or weak cells

They'd be the most likely cause, as

2 hours ago, UniCycler said:

The charger seems ok and give 84.2V output voltage.

You use a charger with a higher charging current as the stock charger?

This should be about the only condition the motherboard would interfere with charging?

2 hours ago, UniCycler said:

I´ve done the calibration process already with Inmotion support but this doesn´t help in my case

How did inmotion explain the cause - what did they recommend to do?

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Dead or weak cells would be recognized by the BMS and reported to the motherboard -> error message via app.

84.2V is the original voltage of the stock charger, but I regulated it down to 84.0V now -> no change

Inmotion just helped with the calibration of the internal voltage measurement, which is responsible for the battery indicator (led-bars and app)  and doesn't have any effect for my problem. A further question why charging sometimes stopped at 70% was not answered by them directly. They recommended contacting my seller.

I guess its a problem with a faulty part on the bms board of the charging path which controls the input MOSFET. But the big question is why charging works without problems until 78 V? Maybe a faulty Z-diode...? But in my experience they are either dead or not. Never seen a half-dead one ;-) More likely is a dying capacitor. I will try to find out more the next days, but have had the hope that someone before had similar problems like this and know maybe the most likely cause.  

 

 

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17 minutes ago, UniCycler said:

But the big question is why charging works without problems until 78 V?

Weak cells are charged faster than normal cells and so trigger the overvoltage shut off at some 4.25V.

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Thats correct, but weak cells have less capacity and in my case I dont recognize any loss of range when the battery was charged to 100%. Unfortunately the charging process stops sometimes at 70% / 78V and here starts my problem. The battery has a 20s4p configuration, so at least 4 weak cells would mean a significant loss range and would be recognized by the bms of the V10 / V10F. It is maybe not the most smart one but it fullfills the basic requirements of a bms. ;) 

When I let the wheel rest during the night, charging is in most cases possible the next morning to 100% with full capacity and range -> no weak or dead cells.

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1 hour ago, UniCycler said:

stops sometimes

 

1 hour ago, UniCycler said:

When I let the wheel rest during the night, charging is in most cases possible the next morning to 100%

You ever logged with EUCW to an .csv file? There should be logged if and which "alarms" happened. Inmotion wheels report nicely (some) problems.

They also have more temperature sensor readings logged - maybe even one for battery/cell temperatures?

Could be something to be seen in the log once charging is stopped around ~70%?

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Thanks for the hint, but besides voltage, board temperature and output power there is nothing relevant what could be logged by 3rd party apps like EUCW. Maybe Inmotion could read out internal log files via remote support but in the normal diagnosis page via their app no errors are listed. I will try to contact them again for getting any further help but I have my doubts that they could help from remote...

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1 hour ago, UniCycler said:

Thanks for the hint, but besides voltage, board temperature and output power there is nothing relevant what could be logged by 3rd party apps like EUCW

All of the measured temperatures, ?charging current? and occured alarms/errors are logged.

1 hour ago, UniCycler said:

but in the normal diagnosis page via their app no errors are listed

So if non occured there won't be any logged, too :(

 

Edited by Chriull
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11 hours ago, UniCycler said:

Ranges of 35km are realistic

Which wheel is it? For the V10F it does sound a bit short, but it depends on many things.

11 hours ago, UniCycler said:

I assume the mainboard gives a wrong charging stop signal to the bms but the question is why.

I’m not sure if there is a communication line in place for the mainboard to be able to do that. The BMS is the one that can stop the charging itself due to battery overvoltage for example.

 The V11 does have a trigger voltage going from the board to the BMS that determines whether the wheel is in a charging or riding mode. This also cuts off the live output voltage if there isn’t an active board present. Charging still works though.

7 hours ago, UniCycler said:

Dead or weak cells would be recognized by the BMS and reported to the motherboard -> error message via app.

I’m not aware of the Inmotion BMSs (except V13) “reporting” or even recognizing individual cell groups getting too low. New Begode BMSs exhibit a constant beep if that happens, but most wheels happily let a cell group get down to 0V without any warnings or alerts.

 And while there are a few trigger signals that convey information about a few crucial matters between the BMS and the mainboard, they aren’t very diverse in moving actual data between the two. A low voltage cell group hasn’t been important enough to build a communication system for until the V13 and S22.

7 hours ago, UniCycler said:

I guess its a problem with a faulty part on the bms board of the charging path which controls the input MOSFET.

Here’s a test: When the charging stops at 70%, does the wheel balance if you power it on with the charger plugged in?

7 hours ago, UniCycler said:

have had the hope that someone before had similar problems like this and know maybe the most likely cause.

It sounded like a clear case of a dead cell group and a badly balanced battery, until you mentioned that it still sometimes charges up to full. Right now though it sounds like:

 

9 hours ago, Chriull said:

You use a charger with a higher charging current as the stock charger?

This is the next question I would’ve asked as well. It would explain the issue.

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8 hours ago, Chriull said:

Weak cells are charged faster than normal cells and so trigger the overvoltage shut off at some 4.25V.

Doesn't the passive bms kick in? Bleeding off fully charged cells while undercharged cells finish charging? 

It's kind of sounding like a faulty connection re the intermittent fault.

Edited by Uras
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You sound knowledgeable. Why not open the pack and probe all the cell groups. Confirm that it stops at 3.9v or whatever 70%is. 

If on the other hand you have one (or a few) group(s) at or near 4.25v, then bingo. Bad pack. 

Let's say your bms doesn't balance, or you've got corroded cells. You'll have some cells hitting 4.25v way before the rest. 

All groups are likely over 3.0v because on my V8 the wheel doesn't even turn on with a group below 3.0v.

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7 hours ago, Uras said:

Doesn't the passive bms kick in? Bleeding off fully charged cells while undercharged cells finish charging? 

This only happens in small doses. Depending on the cell differences it works out as long as they are small enough.

Passive balancing, as used with euc is not designed to level bigger differences (at once)

7 hours ago, Uras said:

It's kind of sounding like a faulty connection re the intermittent fault.

 

Edited by Chriull
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Hey guys, thanks for your comments. The cell voltages are normal and I am using the stock charger, which has 84.2V and 1.5A. The wheel is an V10 almost 2 years old with 800km. The typical range for this wheel is 35km and that is still realistic with my one. Thats why I don´t believe in bad cells.

When charging stops at 70% with green light the wheel stays in charging mode as long as the charger is connected. When I disconnect the charger and turn the wheel on, it works normal. When switching off the wheel and let it rest for the night unplugged, in most cases it is possible to complete charging until 100%.

In the video below, someone seems to have had a similar problem and he changed some parts of the charging control circuit on the bms, but the question is why exactly those parts and how did he find out. I am trying to gather some more information before I will open the wheel the next time. Its a hell of a job and realy a disaster for any repair guy who has to do this regularly ;-) The Ninebot One S2 is compared to the V10 a dreamwheel in many technological and design aspects, regarding repair and safety. There is nothing better than two independent batteries, each with their own BMS. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jvJCat83TI&t=815s

Edited by UniCycler
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If they're plus minus 0.01v then it's definitely a charger issue. If I remember correctly, on my V8 the charger input goes to the control board, not the bms.

If the control board is the culprit and is a pain to fix, maybe there's a way to jerry rig it past the board. You'd need to check that you have overvoltage protection still working or it's very dangerous.

A last resort is to attach a secondary bms ontop of the existing one, and use that one for charging.

You're sure it isn't the charger? Maybe it's misbehaving without giving a bad reading.

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6 hours ago, UniCycler said:

The Ninebot One S2 is compared to the V10 a dreamwheel in many technological and design aspects, regarding repair and safety

The ninebot one s2 was one of the last wheels which incorporated single cell undervoltage cutoff in the bms leading to nasty faceplants. So there was safety for the battery but not for the rider :(

But it was a simpler wheel easier to repair and especially to diagnose the problem.

Your problem seems to be fortunately no safety problem in regard to bad cells or battery problems. But still some nerving hard to find fault. Be it temperature related loose contact, bad components or whatever... Hard to find without thorough systematic search with the right equipment and circuit diagram (to be re-engineered).

...wIthin the charger, bms, mainboard or just the charge connector plug...

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2 hours ago, alcatraz said:

If I remember correctly, on my V8 the charger input goes to the control board, not the bms.

If the control board is the culprit and is a pain to fix, maybe there's a way to jerry rig it past the board. You'd need to check that you have overvoltage protection still working or it's very dangerous.

On the V11 the charger cables are plugged into the mainboard as well, but are directly distributed to the batteries, with nothing in between. It even looks like they might not go to the rest of the mainboard at all.

Charging overvoltage protection is a BMS feature, I think the mainboard (software) only concerns overvoltage while riding.

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Now, I´m thinking about if the reason why charging in my case stops at 70% and can be continued after a longer break to 100%, could be a faulty thermistor attached to the cells. But the question is then, why does it start charging after a longer ride from e.g. 40% battery, when everything should be warm from the ride before.

Does anyone know which information the 5-pin connector is sending to the mainboard? The wires are named "CHG, UD, ON, OFF, PGND" as you can see here:

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/S3bf551062af046339478a41bc76d4d44R.jpg

I assume that there is no serial data communication but just a simple one cable one signal kind of communication. Thats the reason why it is not possible to get cell voltages or cell temperature via mainboard-bluetooth connection. Only the BMS knows this and keeps it as a secret from the mainboard ;)

The meaning of the UD cable would be interesting. Could it mean "undefined" or "undervoltage"? 

Edited by UniCycler
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  • 3 months later...
4 hours ago, FiZ_ said:

I get two V10F wheels. One charged max to 100% (83.2V), the second to 97% (82.5V). In both cases, helped Inmotion remote calibration. Now both wheels is 100%, 84V.

That's great if the batteries/cells are in good condition and the lower voltage is caused by not calibrated measurement circuits - which should happen as final step during assembly in the factory...

Otherwise if the lower voltage comes from bad/deteriorated cells such calibration is just hiding the symptom until the battery becomes dangerous ;(

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