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Brand new Z10 not charging


Emmanuel Schalit

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2 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

If we're not able to come to reasonable terms with Ninebot, I see no choice but to discontinue the Z10. We'll procure a stash of parts for existing Customers, but then that's it.  

Wow Jason this is terrible news but I certainly understand your point. You have always provided superior service to your customers so it only seems prudent that if NB management is creating a paradigm shift away from your original business agreement then you may have to part ways. Best wishes! 

 

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Dont get me wrong...but happy to see some truth popping up!

Thats exactly what i know and hear of european „re“sellers....no chance of getting some parts. Horrible rate of working wheels.

There have been plenty of Z6/10 arriving ...which are not able to take a charge and so dont work at all. Only solution screwing them open...bridging the BMS and then charging them from outside, AND then have the hope that after this action they are willing to make a firmware update of the BMS...so that it never happens again.

Dont know if thats the same here..if not, another failure then...

 

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10 minutes ago, US69 said:

Dont get me wrong...but happy to see some truth popping up!

Thats exactly what i know and hear of european „re“sellers....no chance of getting some parts. Horrible rate of working wheels.

There have been plenty of Z6/10 arriving ...which are not able to take a charge and so dont work at all. Only solution screwing them open...bridging the BMS and then charging them from outside, AND then have the hope that after this action they are willing to make a firmware update of the BMS...so that it never happens again.

Dont know if thats the same here..if not, another failure then...

 

So this charge Issue is a BMS/Pack issue not a control-board issue?  That's good to know.  

There were some Z6 out of China that had the charge issue, and I thought they were able to solve it without replacing BMS or pack. Does anyone have first hand information on how those failures were resolved.

 

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42 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

Unless Ninebot are willing to backup their products, with at least a parts warranty like every other normal manufacturer, it's impossible to make it work—with the tariff, there's actually very little margin on this Wheel. My China shipping agent is still awaiting possession of a couple boards promised over a month ago. I had tried to purchase other basic parts like chargers & tires back in September, was told that no parts are available. I don't want to go into too much detail here, because I'd like to try to normalize relations first (as I've been trying my darnedest for over a month) & steer this ship right again. 

Well they won't be able to sell in the EU until they get their parts and Warranty worked out, because that's the law there.  Apparently they are spending the money to get EU certified, unless they have changed their minds. 

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15 minutes ago, FreeRide said:

So this charge Issue is a BMS/Pack issue not a control-board issue?  That's good to know.  

There were some Z6 out of China that had the charge issue, and I thought they were able to solve it without replacing BMS or pack. Does anyone have first hand information on how those failures were resolved.

 

There are different problems...

Charge issues..

Board issues...

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2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Well, instead of not recommending it, how about recommending that it only be purchased from a reputable dealer? After all, Jason is still supporting the wheel as demonstrated here with @Emmanuel Schalit

Indeed I think @Jason McNeil and eWheels are doing everything they can to support their customers. I am happy I bought my z10 from them because I know they will make this right

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1 hour ago, US69 said:

There are different problems...

Charge issues..

Board issues...

As the "Kingsong social media rep" maybe you tell us more about locked+fried KS18L motors and controllers, (dangerous = fire hazard) issue still not fully solved since July, issues with handle torque off switches,  badly made handles which do not stick back in place, failed batteries, lousy KS android application, and so on?     

All of those producers have certain issues, Gotway also - we had to replace 4 transistors in MSX only because it stayed on for a while during charging.... What about fried/failing MSX  100V power supplies?

We are all on the mercy of Chinese companies, which are not perfect.  

Edited by Lukasz
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Jeez I feel both blessed and worried at the same time reading that Jason is going to be discontinuing this wheel so short in it's life. Blessed that I am the owner of a EUC and that I was able to see my dreams of owning the Z to it's fruition.

I remember Marty saying he was in contact with Ninebot President who states that the wheels would ship with more power. Maybe the resolution was throw on a few capacitors and resistors to pump a higher voltage to the mosfet gate and the mosfet would pump out higher amperage to the wheels thus more power. Maybe it is pushing the limitations of the mosfets (or rather the solder connections and PCB copper laminates).

What Nine needs to consider is perhaps  redesigning the mosfet sub board. Invest in stronger/thicker copper overlay. Spend the extra 40$ to beef up the power delivery system and simply add another 100$ to the cost and brag about it like how Gotway does.  New and improved! Better this, better that.....blah blah blah due to these improvements the cost is a little bit higher but the confidence in quality > price. It's a win win. Take it a step higher and isolate the power delivery system with an inline fuse like kingsong. If that pops, replace the 3$ fuse and your 200$ board lives to see another day.The Z is an engineering marvel. Don't drop the ball Ninebot, you are on the cusp of redefining the EUC market.

 

Edited by darkflame808
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1 hour ago, Igor Rzuczek said:

I had a similar problem, after pulling out of the box, I did not want to turn on, I did not want to load, helped to connect the charger, disconnect the battery for 5 minutes, connect the battery and it started to charge normally

 

I applied the recommendation from @Igor Rzuczek but it did not fix my issue. Not surprising as my issue look a bit different. I am able to power the Z10 but it does not charge and always report that the battery is at 0% which looks much more like a controller issue

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3 minutes ago, darkflame808 said:

Jeez I feel both blessed and worried at the same time reading that Jason is going to be discontinuing this wheel so short in it's life. Blessed that I am the owner of a EUC and that I was able to see my dreams of owning the Z to it's fruition. ....

 

I don't think that is quite definitive yet.  It may be like the MiniPros, where they didn't solve the parts issue for some time.  Or they may not reach an agreement, or Jason may not be able to wait.  Still crossing my fingers that it does not come to this.

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3 minutes ago, Emmanuel Schalit said:

I applied the recommendation from @Igor Rzuczek but it did not fix my issue.

Do You have Volt meter to check the voltage on the batteries?  Tell us the voltage of each battery...

Also - if the app connects - and if it allows you to make the BMS firmware upgrade to 1.1.2  - if Jason approve such action - do it.

Edited by Lukasz
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Emmanuel have you tried checking the connections on the motherboard? Especially the the connectors that plug into the board? Maybe one of your pins is not making a good connection and the controller is not communicating with the battery thus it doesn't trigger to charge or report anything via app?

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8 minutes ago, darkflame808 said:

Jeez I feel both blessed and worried at the same time reading that Jason is going to be discontinuing this wheel so short in it's life. Blessed that I am the owner of a EUC and that I was able to see my dreams of owning the Z to it's fruition.

I remember Marty saying he was in contact with Ninebot President who states that the wheels would ship with more power. Maybe the resolution was throw on a few capacitors and resistors to pump a higher voltage to the mosfet gate and the mosfet would pump out higher amperage to the wheels thus more power. Maybe it is pushing the limitations of the mosfets (or rather the solder connections and PCB copper laminates).

What Nine needs to consider is perhaps  redesigning the mosfet sub board. Invest in stronger/thicker copper overlay. Spend the extra 40$ to beef up the power delivery system and simply add another 100$ to the cost and brag about it like how Gotway does.  New and improved! Better this, better that.....blah blah blah due to these improvements the cost is a little bit higher but the confidence in quality > price. It's a win win. Take it a step higher and isolate the power delivery system with an inline fuse like kingsong. If that pops, replace the 3$ fuse and your 200$ board lives to see another day.The Z is an engineering marvel. Don't drop the ball Ninebot, you are on the cusp of redefining the EUC market.

 

Jason didn't say that he was discontinuing the sale of the Z10, just that he might if he can't get better support from Ninebot.

Sounds like most of the failures have been early failures. Maybe if the Z10 works for the first week it works for a long time?

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7 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Maybe if the Z10 works for the first week it works for a long time?

I have 5 pcs of Z10 within my close field of observation (3pcs local with my unit with 2100km,  one unit in Moscow, and one unit in Madrid - over 4100km already - @RoberAce) No issues so far.  However I am fully aware that there are issues with new units which do not want to charge (maybe BMS  FW  upgrade to 1.1.2 is solving the issue)  and I have heard about 1 unit mosfets failure after 1500 km, but have no details of the true root cause of the issue. 

Edited by Lukasz
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7 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Jason didn't say that he was discontinuing the sale of the Z10, just that he might if he can't get better support from Ninebot.

Sounds like most of the failures have been early failures. Maybe if the Z10 works for the first week it works for a long time?

 

Oh ok I misread. Well Ninebot stands much to gain by supporting Jason. A lot of people who are on the fence will purchase the unit because of the support they know they can get from him. If Ninebot prioritizes Jason's ability to provide support, I would bet my Z that their sales would increase because people wouldn't be afraid of possible problems because they know they are in good hands.

Edited by darkflame808
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6 hours ago, Emmanuel Schalit said:

@Jason McNeil I proceeded as per your instructions. I checked, disconnected and reconnected battery connectors. No change at all.

Also, as per this picture the battery has its 2 blue leds which indicates most likely that the battery is not faulty and that 

Finally, as indicated, I am able to power on the unit, even though it will not charge and the data from the battery is inconsistent.

This sound more like an issue with the controller board.

I will use the return label you sent me (thanks for that) and ship it back to you today as I have the time to go to a Fedex store.

Emmanuel

2018-11-18 13.22.26.jpg

You need one more step:

1. disconnect the power from battery, as you did.

2. Press the power button to release the static charge inside those capacitors. Wait for a while.

3. Reconnect the batteries.

4. Power on.

Still not working, check the voltage at the output of the charger as suggested by @houseofjob,

Also check the voltage at the charging port.

Edited by EUCMania
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1 hour ago, EUCMania said:

Also check the voltage at the charging port.

I have measured the voltage on the charging port in fully functional Z10  and regardless if it is ON or OFF it does not show any voltage  

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In France a whole batch of Z6 and 10 had the same problem. Mine included.

Everybody managed to solve it.

Hope it the same one and not a BMS one.

From all the wheels in France and there are quite a few, only one had a serious malfunctionning issue later on concerning battery.

My Z10 has 900km with no problem whatsoever (fingers crossed), exept a small tire leak wich I fixed thanks to Marty's slime video. Thanks ! 

On a side note, I wonder when I see the incredible prices Z were sold for during the 11.11 promotion if they are not trying to get rid of the first Z generation, aware of certain issues and preparing for the second generation coming real fast ...

Edited by Vanzen
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16 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

I know, but one has to face facts, if 12% of the Wheel don't work out of the box, the supplier is completely indifferent to product quality, & you're met with a wall of silence, it would be ruinous to continue the program.   

Is it that bad?! Woww! I didn’t expect Ninebot to be soo everybody else. Yeah, unfortunately that’s China. Regarding QA, they still have a lot to learn. Hope they soon realize how important quality assurance is for international business. Hope they start supporting you better for the sake of US riders. 😊 

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