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Jean Dublin

GT16 Top Speed Test - Fall at 51km/h without protection

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2 hours ago, Nic said:

I think everyone is missing the point that @enaon is making (the same point I made earlier), which is not to make pedestrians feel intimidated and at risk. We are talking about a specific situation here (a narrow path where pedestrians can't be given a wide berth). Riding at speed on a narrow path, armoured up in protective gear, gives an impression of aggressive/reckless riding (hence the need for armour) and signals oncoming danger/risk to vulnerable people that aren't armoured up. This can be very intimidating to older people or those with young children. If one wears less armour and rides slower it is less intimidating as the rider is also at greater risk and this signals that they are likely to take more care around others.

OR do what I do in those situations, slow down to a crawl, get eye contact and wave, and if they look scared stop entirely and let them past. Otherwise go slow and give as wide a berth you can. With the acceleration of a EUC, I could probably do this three times every mile without loosing more than maybe a minute - but usually it doesn't happen more than once a week or so.

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4 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

:ph34r:  Depends on which suitcase you are referring to.  :whistling:  But I digress... what are we talking about here?  You’re all free to wear or not wear whatever you like.  Cruise at 12 kph with full riot gear on or go at 45 kph naked.  

As long as you’re careful riding around others that’s the important thing.  I’m having fun riding my one wheeled ride, and other people can think what they want.  Doesn’t matter to me much.  If they want to jump out of the way while I’m all geared up crawling by at 3 kph - that’s totally their choice!  I steer wide of little tiny kids and dogs as they are random, unpredictable obstacles.  Safety gear is for my safety.  Others can read whatever they want into it.  I wish someone would invent some EUC specific arm/shoulder protection that helps cushion faceplants.  That would be cool.  :thumbup:

Just for the records, you steer free of kids and dogs.. but aim for curbs and potholes just to see if you can make it or not ? :P

@enaon Ohh I can testify that even fully gear up you can still hurt yourself and I don't ride fully gear to ride at max speed all the time. I ride with caution but when bike lane quality and traffic allow it I ride faster. otherwise I need to consider most here don't yet know what to expect when they meet an EUC so any erratic decision can happen can, bikers and pedestrians alike.

As for a basic helmet that in no way take away any responsibility, but as traffic get tighter it takes away any possible escape route you can choose from compared to 30 years ago. It might show others that you are concerned about safety on the other hand...

Now with my "full"gear on most responses I get from people asking questions about my EUC are they like I am wearing protective gear despite I try to convince them it is not as bad as it looks to ride, it is more due to the speed I can potential ride at that is the case. And yes i limit my KS18L for 40 kmh warning 42 kmh tilt back, since i can get speed blind as we call it on long straight empty bike lanes. Like the day I rode to Ikea. You can find a post of when it surprised me here on forum. 

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5 hours ago, enaon said:

Since you ride across trafic and all that, I guess you are not afraid of a cut-off actually happening, we are talking about something else I think.

No. I am not afraid of a cutoff at all. Product improvements, time, and riding more powerful wheels solved that particular problem for me.

I do however still very much fear a falloff/faceplant; because that could happen for a number of reasons aside from a cutoff that my powerful wheel doesn't overcome. 

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10 hours ago, enaon said:

maybe so. :)

It's not a matter of perception thought, when wearing a helmet one is more dangerous to other pedestrians if he falls/trips etc, his face is hard plastic. :) 

 

I suppose that this point is a possibility. However, I think probability fuels decision-making: not possibility. A person being hurt by my safety gear doesn't seem very probable to me. 

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8 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

I suppose that this point is a possibility. However, I think probability fuels decision-making: not possibility. A person being hurt by my safety gear doesn't seem very probable to me. 

To further stress your point, if I compre my safety gear to the amount of junk (and weight) in my girldriend's purse...sh*t, her bag could kill an elephant! I don't think a helmet or hard-plastic knee-pad is an unreasonable threat to anyone we encounter on our rides. Compare us to "SUV-moms", we're no more of a risk than moths or fruit flies... :efee612b4b:

Edited by travsformation
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9 minutes ago, travsformation said:

To further stress your point, if I compre my safety gear to the amount of junk (and weight) in my girldriend's purse...sh*t, her bag could kill an elephant! I don't think a helmet or hard-plastic knee-pad is an unreasonable threat to anyone we encounter on our rides. Compare us to "SUV-moms", we're no more of a risk than moths or fruit flies... :efee612b4b:

We are not talking about actual risk here ... only about how others may perceive you as a potential threat to their safety.

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22 minutes ago, Nic said:

We are not talking about actual risk here ... only about how others may perceive you as a potential threat to their safety.

I know. We're talking about the same thing. My girlfriend's purse scares the living crap out of me....it's a perceived threat; I can't help but think that if she drops it on my foot, or swings around and hits me in the face with it, it'll be the equivalent of being whacked by a brick :efee612b4b:

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10 minutes ago, radial said:

As for the effect on pedestrians, I don't mind if they view me with caution and stay clear.  Safer for all concerned if they do.  Snatch up your toddlers, rein in your dogs, quit hogging more than your fair share of the path.  We are trying to have a society here.  

Good point my good man. Pedestrians are road hogs any damn way. They could use a good reason yield right of way sometimes. 

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1 minute ago, travsformation said:

I know. We're talking about the same thing. My girlfriend's purse scares the living crap out of me....it's a perceived threat; I can't help but think that if she drops it on my foot, or swings around and hits me in the face with it, it'll be the equivalent of being whacked by a brick :efee612b4b:

:D same with my wife. Someone would have a broken leg if her purse inadvertently made contact while she was out taking a stroll 

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32 minutes ago, Nic said:

We are not talking about actual risk here ... only about how others may perceive you as a potential threat to their safety.

If pedestrians see me as a threat then I must reiterate @radial'S point. That could be a good thing because it would heighten their awareness.

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4 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

If pedestrians see me as a threat then I must reiterate @radial'S point. That could be a good thing because it would heighten their awareness.

And that is exactly the kind of thing that will get EUCs banned from pedestrian areas (assuming they are legal to begin with). Would you feel the same if you had an 86 year old parent taking a walk on a quiet path? Maybe you want to heighten their awareness too? Make them jump to one side perhaps, to avoid becoming a statistic? I certainly hope not.

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49 minutes ago, Nic said:

And that is exactly the kind of thing that will get EUCs banned from pedestrian areas (assuming they are legal to begin with). Would you feel the same if you had an 86 year old parent taking a walk on a quiet path? Maybe you want to heighten their awareness too? Make them jump to one side perhaps, to avoid becoming a statistic? I certainly hope not.

IMHO, pedestrians don't have a sense that they're on shared pathways. They walk, look at their phone, randomly change direction, walk into bike paths without looking, etc. WE might be a hazard to them, but for other reasons (speed, weight, etc.). All the same, I have a feeling (or at least I hope that's the case) that EUC-riders are more aware of what they're doing and their surroundings. But regardless, it all depends on the rider and how cautious he/she is. I don't think protective gear is an additional hazard, and just as we promote rider safety/caution (for the benefit of others as well as our own), I think pedestrians would do well to develop a bit more awareness too (I can't count how many times I'm had to slam on my brakes because of normalized jaywalking). If seeing us all geared up contributes to that cause (for the benefit of all parties involved), I don't see why that should be seen as a bad thing (and needless to say, I'm not endorsing voluntarily terrorizing pedestrians; just riding normally and safely, and hoping that pedestrians might understand that even sidewalks pose certain threats, and unbeknown to them, they're a potential threat to EUC-riders, drivers, etc., and a reason for us to gear up...so...maybe they could take a hint....)

Edited by travsformation
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49 minutes ago, Nic said:

And that is exactly the kind of thing that will get EUCs banned from pedestrian areas (assuming they are legal to begin with). Would you feel the same if you had an 86 year old parent taking a walk on a quiet path? Maybe you want to heighten their awareness too? Make them jump to one side perhaps, to avoid becoming a statistic? I certainly hope not.

Take a deep cleansing breath my friend. Let's stay in context. There is not one person that I have ever talked with on this forum that wants to see EUC's banned for any reason.

Your causation reasoning is faulty. Exactly, how will pedestrians being more alert and aware of my presence cause the banning of EUC riding? How are they related?

No disrespect intended player. But please clarify what you mean because your reasoning sounds absurd to me. 

Now, I need a deep cleansing breath :D

Edited by Lutalo

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4 hours ago, Nic said:

I think everyone is missing the point that @enaon is making (the same point I made earlier), which is not to make pedestrians feel intimidated and at risk. We are talking about a specific situation here (a narrow path where pedestrians can't be given a wide berth). Riding at speed on a narrow path, armoured up in protective gear, gives an impression of aggressive/reckless riding (hence the need for armour) and signals oncoming danger/risk to vulnerable people that aren't armoured up. This can be very intimidating to older people or those with young children. If one wears less armour and rides slower it is less intimidating as the rider is also at greater risk and this signals that they are likely to take more care around others.

thanks nic, that is what I was trying to say more or less.

I take it for granded that I am not really supposed to be in the sidewalk in the first place, I don't think EUC's should be allowd to ride along pedestrians, thus I feel like a guest of pedestrians when I am on their track. I find it that I get very friendly feeback from people walking, I go into the supermarket, take the wheel in to the elevator, inside the hospital, everywhere I go everybody smiles, I believe that it is because I look casual and not threatening to the eye, I believe that gear and helmet would speed thing up in the direction of me getting banned from using the sidewalk, but if no one feels the same, it's ok :) 

Edited by enaon
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51 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

Take a deep cleansing breath my friend. Let's stay in context. There is not one person that I have ever talked with on this forum that wants to see EUC's banned for any reason.

Your causation reasoning is faulty. Exactly, how will pedestrians being more alert and aware of my presence cause the banning of EUC riding? How are they related?

No disrespect intended player. But please clarify what you mean because your reasoning sounds absurd to me. 

Now, I need a deep cleansing breath :D

The law does (and should) favour the rights of those more vulnerable over those less vulnerable. That is why disabled people are allowed to drive their mobility scooters on sidewalks (4 mph max), but cars and motorcyles are not allowed on sidewalks. The sidewalk and footpaths are the only place that pedestrians can feel safe. If you are suggesting that pedestrians give up the sidewalk to electric powered vehicles such as scooters and EUCs, then pedestrians have nowhere safe to go and I can't see anyone else allowing this to happen. If pedestrians feel unsafe, then it is the thing that is causing them to feel unsafe that will be banned. Please use the roads if you want to armour up and ride fast.

Edited by Nic
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2 hours ago, Lutalo said:

I suppose that this point is a possibility. However, I think probability fuels decision-making: not possibility. A person being hurt by my safety gear doesn't seem very probable to me. 

sure, I misused the term, I am sorry. 

I thought it was common sense, apparently it is not or I can not express it right, I want to try some more thought, it's been more that 20 years that I had a chat with so many english speaking dudes, it's kind of nice. :)

If an euc is not going to fail with no reason, if a cut-off risk is just in our heads, then ok, I agree, safety gear doesn't make you any more dangerous to pedestrians, although they will feel intimidated I believe. 

But if an euc cut-off for no apparent reason is a real danger, if one really believes it's going to happen anytime soon and gears up to avoid himself being hurt, then riding on the sidewalk is bordering reckless behavior I think. In that case, one took a machine that is potentially dangerous and out of his controll to begin with, put a helmet on to protect himself, and let others to the mercy of allmighty. 

 

I don't believe a cut-off is a real danger, I hope none really does. :)

Edited by enaon
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49 minutes ago, Nic said:

If pedestrian feel unsafe, then it is the thing that is causing them to feel unsafe that will be banned. Please use the roads if you want to armour up and ride fast.

OK. I think that get you now. It seems that you extrapolated from my comment that I was advocating the wanton terrorizing of pedestrians so that EUC riders can ride at 30mph on the sidewalk without having to deal with pesky pedestrians. 

Well, all I can say to that is that I am glad that you extrapolated that meaning rather than my statement actually saying, meaning, or advocating such irresponsible behavior. 

Edited by Lutalo
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but why is it a matter of right/wrong, why should it be our way or the highway? :)

I get what I am trying to say, apparently, but also get what you or Marty say, all can happen in the same time as long as the reasoning is valid. If I am on the sidewalk riding and I see you coming on the other direction looking like the Green Goblin from spiderman, I will just slow down and take cover, you will pass by and life will go on, just like you let a suv go first when driving a bike. Safety first. :)

 

As I have found out, a good headlight when riding in the dark makes pedestrians feel unsecure. The wheel is very silent, the light just kreeps in behind them and makes them jump, I always see it comming and slow down to counter for it, have a little chat and off I go. I am not against lights, but it is a reality I have faced. I have two light sources now, a far throwing source and an ambient one, I only ride with the ambient on when on sidewalks. :)

Edited by enaon
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On 12/15/2018 at 3:11 PM, Smoother said:

One should be careful not to assume the gyro is at fault just because the wheel stops balancing.  EVERYTHING on that wheel (except bluetooth) is there to enable continued balance.  Just one problem and balance fails.  As you have not yet answered all the questions put to you about the 2 or 3 seconds before each cut out, we cannot help you further, other than to guess.   But to assume the gyro failed is problematic.  I have never heard of a gyro failing, everything else, yes, but a gyro, no.  

On a cut off , gyro stops ? , I believe it does , and I realize that that's why such a violent fall ?

I have answered every question you've done : My weight = 68 Kilograms , 2 or 3 seconds before each cut out , I was riding perfect , alway on the same place , wood deck , never had prior to drastic stop , an alarm , it wasn't windy. I had plenty of battery charge = 57% , fully recharged always after each use. Wasn't accelerating nor braking , riding at constant speed. The surface I rode was always completely dry. Me wheel was Brand new , now having only 31,7 Kilometers. 

Any other question ? Please let me now , and I'll answer asap. As I was in my learning process I didn't know much about what to do , I did all I got from the owner's manual , that's not much !!

Thank for your help , and please ask me what's missing me to answer.

Your's Sincere : Fernando Ll.

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26 minutes ago, Fernando Llambias said:

On a cut off , gyro stops ? , I believe it does , and I realize that that's why such a violent fall ?

I have answered every question you've done : My weight = 68 Kilograms , 2 or 3 seconds before each cut out , I was riding perfect , alway on the same place , wood deck , never had prior to drastic stop , an alarm , it wasn't windy. I had plenty of battery charge = 57% , fully recharged always after each use. Wasn't accelerating nor braking , riding at constant speed. The surface I rode was always completely dry. Me wheel was Brand new , now having only 31,7 Kilometers. 

Any other question ? Please let me now , and I'll answer asap. As I was in my learning process I didn't know much about what to do , I did all I got from the owner's manual , that's not much !!

Thank for your help , and please ask me what's missing me to answer.

Your's Sincere : Fernando Ll.

Fernardo, it seems that you were really unlucky, it seems you have a faulty unit.

If you are sure the wheel was off after the crash, not on blinking red but off, then I would say that you have a bad battery cell, the battery pack failed.

There is an fairly easy way to rule the battery out. Assuming you have the white power supplu unit, the one at 61V/120W, you can charge the unit and leave it charging for 8-10 hours after the green light appears. It should go to over 62 volts when looking from the app at this stage. If it not, if the battery still shows bellow 62 volts after 10 hours of charge, one or more cells maybe bad. 

If you will, make a note of the battery voltage when the psu light turns green, and another note 10 hours later, do a couple of meters on it and break a couple of times, make another note of the voltage, and post it here. 

ps, 57% of batery life as reported by the app when riding slow on smooth terain, is not plenty of battery for our wheel class. It can turn to 30% the next second if a hill comes next or you start riding hard, and 30% means trouble. When you reach the 60% mark, it is time to head home slowly. 

Edited by enaon
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19 minutes ago, travsformation said:

when I come across pedestrians, I slow down considerably, give them the right of way, stop if necessary...whatever it takes. What I'd call normal, civic behaviour.

I don't think this discussion should be about gear, but about how we conduct ourselves

maybe it was my bad, I never wanted to connect wearing gear to being ignorant of others. I just implied that it could lead to that if one does not give it some thought, apparently you all ride longer and have done so. I like the idea of a friendly, civic, gentle Green Goblin version, I wish you all happy rides. :)

Edited by enaon
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As @travsformation said, riding fast where there are pedestrians is a dick move. You should never ride faster than being able to stop if a pedestrian behaves erratic, even on a non-separated bike path. Armored or not, if you smash into a pedestrian, you're going to hurt them bad. If you're geared up, you may come out of the accident at 15mph without real damage, but the pedestrian sure won't.

Also get a f*ing bike bell, there are ring shaped ones you can buy, or you can mount one on top of the wrist guard, wear it around your neck or fix it to a small hand-hold. The ability to signal pedestrians with something they recognize as a known danger is an enormous advantage. Just having an electronic switch to the tweeter on the EUC isn't really an ideal solution, as that sound doesn't signify immediate danger to someone not used to it. I use the ring type, and it works well as long as I make sure I don't dampen the bell with my fingers.

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6 minutes ago, enaon said:

maybe it was my bad, I never wanted to connect wearing gear to being ignorant of others. I just implied that it could lead to that if one does not give it some thought, apparently you all ride longer and have done so. I like the idea of a friendly, civic, gentle Green Goblin version, I wish you all happy rides. :)

I think what triggered us, was the idea that you should negate your own safety to be "nice" to pedestrians. It sounds like a rationalization much like those who refuse to consider a bike-helmet and point to some obscure statistics about helmets and accidents.

The problem is that you will fall, sooner or later, even if you never top 15mph. When you do, all the reasoning in the world about reasons not to wear at least basic gear will come back and bite you violently.

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