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GT16 Top Speed Test - Fall at 51km/h without protection


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5 minutes ago, Nic said:

The Ninebot E+ has 320Wh battery and he said it was at 57% when it cut-off.

@Lukasz should be able to help as he has owned an E+ and will be familiar with its limitations.

That means his battery level was that of a cheap generic Chinese "death" wheel. With so little available power it wouldn't surprise me if the wheel didn't cutout on any little bump. And we don't know how heavy @Fernando Llambias is.

@Fernando Llambias, I wouldn't expect to ever hear anything from Ninebot. Buy yourself a wheel with at least an 800-watt motor and 800-wh battery (the bigger the battery the safer the wheel).

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30 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

That means his battery level was that of a cheap generic Chinese "death" wheel. With so little available power it wouldn't surprise me if the wheel didn't cutout on any little bump. And we don't know how heavy @Fernando Llambias is.

@Fernando Llambias, I wouldn't expect to ever hear anything from Ninebot. Buy yourself a wheel with at least an 800-watt motor and 800-wh battery (the bigger the battery the safer the wheel).

A scooter might be a safer and lower cost option (and a lot of fun) given his age (68). Even with a 'safe' EUC there will still be the inevitable falls, as you already experienced. Hope you get well soon Fernando.

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18 minutes ago, Nic said:

A scooter might be a safer and lower cost option (and a lot of fun) given his age (68). Even with a 'safe' EUC there will still be the inevitable falls, as you already experienced. Hope you get well soon Fernando.

Not knowing anything about his physical condition, I hesitate to turn him away from EUCs. In my opinion it's not age but physical conditioning. This is why I just dissuaded my wife (65) from learning. She's not physically fit.

Everyone who rides EUCs will eventually have a bad fall. I'm convinced of this. Just a matter of time. Those of us of a certain age will eventually armor up. Hopefully we don't have a bad fall prior to that. But even with armor, you better be fit.

If you can't reasonably recover from someone coming up behind you and pushing you to the ground, you shouldn't ride EUCs. 

There are people who come to the Forum and ask for advice on purchasing wheels that can carry their 250+ pounds. I fear for these people, because when they eventually fall, that's a lot of weight crashing to the ground, armor or no armor.

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1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

That means his battery level was that of a cheap generic Chinese "death" wheel. With so little available power it wouldn't surprise me if the wheel didn't cutout on any little bump. And we don't know how heavy @Fernando Llambias is.

@Fernando Llambias, I wouldn't expect to ever hear anything from Ninebot. Buy yourself a wheel with at least an 800-watt motor and 800-wh battery (the bigger the battery the safer the wheel).

My weight is 85 Kilograms , which would you consider the best and safer wheel ? Gotway  ? Inmotion ? I'll appreciate your help. Thank You.

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41 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Not knowing anything about his physical condition, I hesitate to turn him away from EUCs. In my opinion it's not age but physical conditioning. This is why I just dissuaded my wife (65) from learning. She's not physically fit.

Everyone who rides EUCs will eventually have a bad fall. I'm convinced of this. Just a matter of time. Those of us of a certain age will eventually armor up. Hopefully we don't have a bad fall prior to that. But even with armor, you better be fit.

If you can't reasonably recover from someone coming up behind you and pushing you to the ground, you shouldn't ride EUCs. 

There are people who come to the Forum and ask for advice on purchasing wheels that can carry their 250+ pounds. I fear for these people, because when they eventually fall, that's a lot of weight crashing to the ground, armor or no armor.

 

4 minutes ago, Fernando Llambias said:

The battery that comes with the Ninebot One E+ is 320Wh. Thank you for your help !!

I own a BMW GS1200 and I ride it safely , but also enjoyed riding the euc , but realize that's safer the motorcycle , I have 15.000 kms on it , and only 30 Kilometers on my wheel !! Thank you for your help.

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6 minutes ago, Fernando Llambias said:

My weight is 85 Kilograms , which would you consider the best and safer wheel ? Gotway  ? Inmotion ? I'll appreciate your help. Thank You.

Ninebot, InMotion, KingSong or Gotway ... they all make good wheels. Ninebot Z10 is probably one of the safest and would be my choice but it is a bit heavy. If you can find an InMotion V10 at discount/promotion from GearBest it was selling at a bargain price of around half normal retail, so that would be a fantastic deal. Are you after something light and easy to carry, or with good range, or fast. Tell us what your requirements are and your cost limit and we can recommend something suitable ... or just suggest what wheel you like and we can tell you if it is suitable.

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4 hours ago, Fernando Llambias said:

Hi Nic !!

I bought the Ninebot One E+ Brand new , I received it at my home in Argentina , was waiting till it arrived , with all the illusion !! , I received it early october , meanwhile watched all tutorials I found on Youtube. Started practicing indoors , and when I acquired the basic skills , went to the riverside , were there's no traffic , and ride it perfect , till the first cut-off !! I fall strongly but with luck , Broke me pants, my knee an hit with the head the wooden deck , but softly.

I got in contact with the seller (Speedy Feet.uk) , and Ian told me to recharge it and not to worry. I had always recharged it after each use.

And a week after , having 57% battery and 15 kilometers autonomy , came the second and terrible cut-off , and now I broke my right shoulder !!

Sitill waiting from ninebot an explanation ?, send them the info from the Black Box , and still wondering How can this happen !!

I am aircraft pilot , motorcycle motocross competitor , and now at my 68 years old , in this stupid way waiting for possible surgery.

Unbelievable !!

Thanks for your comments and helping me to understand what others hide !!

Sincerely

Fernando

 

I've had two cut-off/ faceplants, too, in the past two months, after nearly three years and 7,000km since my noob faceplant (not a cut-out). Since I was wearing full gear, I walked away from both with no serious issues.

I'm fairly certain it's the battery pack. Both my recent cut-outs occurred with the 340wh "P" batteries I purchased from SpeedyFeet less than 6 months ago. I haven't dismantled and inspected them as yet, so this is still just a theory. However, I'm lucky since I have more than one E+ and multiple batteries, so I can swap wheels and components: my crashes occurred with two different control boards: a newer one and my original. Also, I do recall that the Ninebot One P was plagued(?) with cut-outs before it was discontinued not long after release, so that further supports my reasoning.

As for your case, if you still want to ride after you heal, I would either sell the wheel (with full disclosure!) and get a new model/brand with a more robust battery (4P 1000wh or better) and motor (800w +). Or if you're still fond of the E+ like me, you should just replace the battery with a "new" 320wh E+ pack if you can find one at a good price, which may be near impossible; or have a custom one built from somewhere like Einradwerkstatt in Germany that has proven experience with the older Ninebots (probably not a reasonable option either). Here's a link to the quick change mod for swapping E+ batteries if you decide to go the latter route.

I hope you recover fully so you can enjoy riding again soon.

 

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I didn't know anything about wheels , I thought Segway would be a good choice , and appropriate for starting , and good wheel/price equation ? 

Ninebot cost me delivered at home u$s1.000 , other options are much more expensive ?

My first buy was a King Song 16" , but the seller told he couldn't ship it to my country, Argentina.

I thought I was buying a good and trustable wheel , as Segway , for me meant and supposed to be the inventor of this devices ?

In the forum I learned that they have old technology ?

Thank you for your help.

 

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2 hours ago, Fernando Llambias said:

was a King Song 16" , but the seller told he

 

2 hours ago, Fernando Llambias said:

I didn't know anything about wheels , I thought Segway would be a good choice , and appropriate for starting , and good wheel/price equation ? 

Ninebot cost me delivered at home u$s1.000 , other options are much more expensive ?

My first buy was a King Song 16" , but the seller told he couldn't ship it to my country, Argentina.

I thought I was buying a good and trustable wheel , as Segway , for me meant and supposed to be the inventor of this devices ?

In the forum I learned that they have old technology ?

Thank you for your help.

 

I have a similar wheel, the ninebot one c+, an even weaker wheel than yours. I have changed the firmware to make it work like an e+, which is not the best idea safety-wise, and have done 600+ khm on it. I haven't had a cut-off,  but I respect the working principle very much, I know that tilt-back is something that should not happen often, or a cut off will follow. 

Maybe you have a defective item, maybe you just have to learn how the euc work. It would be very helpful if you could explain what happened when you fall. Just the two secs before and two after the fail, in detail. 

 

In any case you have a weak (not so weak, it goes up to 1500W) but wonderful wheel, the way I see it. But to use it safely, you have to monitor temp, power, get a good idea on how it works.

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I ride an E+ and the firmware was recently changed to P. My top speed is now 28~ish km/h compared to previous 23-24 km/h. I was riding in -2 degrees yesterday on snow/ice and it rode perfectly. I have done over 750km and it still runs perfectly. I can push it as hard as I like and it always pushes me back.

After the firmware change I get much less voltage sag at lower battery and can still hit 20km/h where previously it would limit me to 12km/h.

It's a great wheel and a smooth ride. Can't fault a single thing. I have been riding it on wet surfaces, I got stuck in the rain a couple times, gone uphill, downhill, trails, forest, mud, bmx tracks, everywhere.

My typical range in the summer when riding conservatively was around 20km.
Now when it's cold I get around 13-14km.

I find it hard to believe that "at 15 km autonomy there was 57% battery left". I know the app does not show battery level correctly and when I get to 20% the ride is basically over.

When these kind of errors occur there are 2 things to factor.
1. you did something wrong
2. the wheel is faulty

If you didn't do anything wrong then you will crash on your next wheel as well.

I have ordered an MSX so that when I crash I can crash at an amazingly high speed.
 

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Well, everything you @Fernando Llambias said (57%, 320Wh battery) confirms what I said previously.  A small battery with less than 60% charge is dangerous.  Charge that thing up to 100% before each ride (do not store it at 100% to avoid battery damage) and be very conservative in your movements below 60%.  This is what I learned the hard way on my 340Wh KS14c.  Have over 1000 miles on it to date, Less than 10 face plants :rolleyes:

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Cuando aparece el cut-off , al pararse el giroscopio ,esto es lo produce que uno salga para adelante como escupida de músico , e inevitablemente se lastime , dada la violencia y  la perdida del balance en el sentido de la marcha ?

Me parece que el problema es la parada repentina del giroscopio , lo que provoca una violenta caída en el sentido de marcha ?

Las 2 veces que me pasó , independientemente de la velocidad , no me dio tiempo a nada , casi que no pude amortiguar la caída ni siquiera con las manos. 

Como que no dá tiempo por lo rápido y violento con que te despide ?

Perdón que escriba en español , pero me resulta más fácil hacerme comprender. O debería hacerlo solamente en Inglés ?

Gracias por la ayuda y seguiré aprendiendo Gracias a vuestros comentarios !!

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English only please, from Google Translate...

Quote

When the cut-off appears, when the gyroscope stops, is it produced that one comes forward as a musician's spit, and inevitably gets hurt, given the violence and the loss of the balance in the direction of the march? 

I think the problem is the sudden stop of the gyroscope, which causes a violent fall in the direction of travel? 

The 2 times that happened to me, regardless of the speed, I did not have time to anything, almost that I could not cushion the fall even with my hands. 

Since you do not have time for how fast and violent you are dismissed? 

Sorry to write in Spanish, but I find it easier to make me understand. Or should I do it only in English? 

Thanks for the help and I will continue to learn Thanks to your comments !!

Google translate isn't perfect either, but you are less likely to get a reply if you post in Spanish.

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47 minutes ago, Nic said:

I think the problem is the sudden stop of the gyroscope

One should be careful not to assume the gyro is at fault just because the wheel stops balancing.  EVERYTHING on that wheel (except bluetooth) is there to enable continued balance.  Just one problem and balance fails.  As you have not yet answered all the questions put to you about the 2 or 3 seconds before each cut out, we cannot help you further, other than to guess.   But to assume the gyro failed is problematic.  I have never heard of a gyro failing, everything else, yes, but a gyro, no.  

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3 hours ago, Nic said:

Never ignore the beeps, or tilt-back, and try and push your speed to max, or this is what happens (this person was deliberately trying to max out his speed on a Z10)...

Nice video demonstration. On that last run, where it failed, clearly he pushed beyond the limits of the wheel.

I have a video where I was riding the Z10 tilt-back continuously, at 45-km/h. Just like he was doing in the video for a long time. The Z10 has a nice mellow tilt-back. So you can ride at the upper speed safely (IMO). But if you're experiencing tilt-back and you proceed to lean into it - cutout :cry2:

 

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On 12/14/2018 at 8:23 PM, Marty Backe said:

Those of us of a certain age will eventually armor up.

Well said. A possible consequence of failing to armor up before the big FP is to quit riding, because those of us of a certain age might feel that the cost of the fall outweighs the benefit of the ride. To lose an enthusiast this way is tragic IMHO. Safety first :)👍

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2 hours ago, Lutalo said:

Well said. A possible consequence of failing to armor up before the big FP is to quit riding, because those of us of a certain age might feel that the cost of the fall outweighs the benefit of the ride. To lose an enthusiast this way is tragic IMHO. Safety first :)👍

Armoring up is fine, safety it important, but if one chose to go this way he must respect pedestrians are not, thus sidewalks or riding in public places should be off-limits.

I don't want to armor up, I like to ride along pedestrians routes, because we don't have dedicated ones for bicycles in Athens, Greece. If one armors up and ride in the sidewalk, he puts pedestrian's safety second. 

I believe it is complicated, as always :)

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1 hour ago, enaon said:

Armoring up is fine, safety it important, but if one chose to go this way he must respect pedestrians are not, thus sidewalks or riding in public places should be off-limits.

I don't want to armor up, I like to ride along pedestrians routes, because we don't have dedicated ones for bicycles in Athens, Greece. If one armors up and ride in the sidewalk, he puts pedestrian's safety second. 

I believe it is complicated, as always :)

🤔 not sure how armoring up to protect oneself puts others at risk. I have to turn that one over a few ticks. 

In any case, my original comment was directed at how older people falling and getting hurt could impact how they relate to, or feel about the hobby of EUC riding post injury. 

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45 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

🤔 not sure how armoring up to protect oneself puts others at risk. I have to turn that one over a few ticks. 

In any case, my original comment was directed at how older people falling and getting hurt could impact how they relate to, or feel about the hobby of EUC riding post injury. 

I am not against protection gear in high speed rides, it;s only reasonable to wear a helmet and all in high speed.  

it is just that armoring up to protect oneself against a cut-off when riding along pedestrians, seems strange to me. If a cut off is a real probability in one's mind, then don't ride at all, or ride in the speed you can control where you and the wheel will end up, or don't ride along pedestrians. Armoring-up just provides for the rider's safety, everybody else is exposed to a possible uncontrolled cut-off, where they will have to dodge a free-running wheel and an armored-up person. 

Not armoring up when riding along pedestrians keeps things real, our survival instincts force us to ride slower, and everybody is happy :)

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