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GT16 Top Speed Test - Fall at 51km/h without protection


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1 hour ago, Unventor said:

I don't know why but those magical blows (no cheeky comment needed @Hunka Hunka Burning Love) a mom do when you were 4 or 5 years old and you had a fall or finger got stuck in a door slamming shut, don't seem to work anymore when you are 40-50 years old...

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7 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

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Well I am sure you knows...tinkelbell magically once...go to any small kids playground and you can observe it...

Btw @Rehab1 have you seen this sexy thing ...KS18L upgraded with us sized pedals

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Too bad I don't have yours and @Marty Backes weather here....worst case I have to ride in hallways at work...until they ban me 😁 

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7 minutes ago, Nic said:

Should Hussein Bolt be armoured up when he sprints at 28 mph?

 

usain-bolt-is-only-01-seconds-away-from-reaching-what-may-be-peak-human-speed-in-the-100-meter-race.jpg

Major point here...he is at a closed race track, no crossing traffic or thing that comes out in front of him behind a parked car or a kid or animal that decided to rush cross the lanes without looking around him first...

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12 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Well I am sure you knows...tinkelbell magically once...go to any small kids playground and you can observe it...

Btw @Rehab1 have you seen this sexy thing ...751200812_newpedal.jpg.953fd2fd0f42c54d6cecf21ff12bd73b.jpg

Too bad I don't have yours and @Marty Backes weather here....worst case I have to ride in hallways at work...until they ban me 😁 

The KS XL18 limited edition. So awesome and hard resist!!

If your referring my weather I live in Michigan not Martywood. :D  I still ride it’s just limited. 

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7 minutes ago, Nic said:

Should Hussein Bolt be armoured up when he sprints at 28 mph?

 

usain-bolt-is-only-01-seconds-away-from-reaching-what-may-be-peak-human-speed-in-the-100-meter-race.jpg

He could probably still outrun everyone else despite the added weight, so... Why not? 😉 

But on a serious note, his balance doesn't depend on a gyroscope subject to switching off. The damage incurred in a fall doesn't only depend on speed, but on how you fall, angle, etc. An overlean is a very particular kind of fall, where the weight of your upper body goes forward (and downward, if course), while the wheel "pulls" your legs backwards, increasing the face-towards-floor inertia. It isn't the same to let yourself fall forward as to lean forward while standing on a log: it's a matter of simple physics, when you're upper and lower body travel in opposite directions, it multiplies the force with which you hit the ground. 

Everyone's free to do as they wish,  I'm just saying... A full face helmet is a hell of a lot cheaper than a new set of teeth. 😅

I've lost track of how many bones I've broken engaging in adventure sports, so I learned the hard way. No one's imposing anything here, we're all adults, and everyone chooses the risks they're willing to take. I'm just sharing my two cents so maybe others can learn from my mistakes and avoid unnecessary injuries... 

The gear debate is a never ending one where no universal consensus will ever be reached, but in the end, it's everyone's own body at stake so... Who's to say what anyone else should do? We can only share opinions and hope we can all ride happily, safely and uneventfully

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16 minutes ago, travsformation said:

He could probably still outrun everyone else despite the added weight, so... Why not? 😉 

But on a serious note, his balance doesn't depend on a gyroscope subject to switching off. The damage incurred in a fall doesn't only depend on speed, but on how you fall, angle, etc. An overlean is a very particular kind of fall, where the weight of your upper body goes forward (and downward, if course), while the wheel "pulls" your legs backwards, increasing the face-towards-floor inertia. It isn't the same to let yourself fall forward as to lean forward while standing on a log: it's a matter of simple physics, when you're upper and lower body travel in opposite directions, it multiplies the force with which you hit the ground. 

Everyone's free to do as they wish,  I'm just saying... A full face helmet is a hell of a lot cheaper than a new set of teeth. 😅

I've lost track of how many bones I've broken engaging in adventure sports, so I learned the hard way. No one's imposing anything here, we're all adults, and everyone chooses the risks they're willing to take. I'm just sharing my two cents so maybe others can learn from my mistakes and avoid unnecessary injuries... 

The gear debate is a never ending one where no universal consensus will ever be reached, but in the end, it's everyone's own body at stake so... Who's to say what anyone else should do? We can only share opinions and hope we can all ride happily, safely and uneventfully

The thing is, until we experience a fall it is very hard to make judgements of what is best for us. I've yet to experience coming off at speed, so don't yet know how bad it can be. I've not yet fractured any bones either and have no wish to do so. Crashing on a bicycle is usually something you can walk away from, even if a little bruised and cut. The way you explain the physics of it makes me really worried about falling ... it sounds a bit like swatting a fly. I think my riding style is a little weird because I don't lean to move forward, but instead I move pressure towards my toes while staying upright with only a very slight lean to stop me falling backwards.

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If Usain Bolt was running at top speed over potholes, sidewalk irregularities, and slippery conditions and had legs which gave out on him unexpectedly and completely then maybe?  :efef927839:  In other pro sports like football and hockey, we see players suited up to the hilt.  It's just part of the game and necessary if they want to stay in the game.

For fall virgins, most don't realize that some falls can be pretty bad especially off a rolling platform that suddenly gives out at speed.  We all think naw it can't happen to us.  I'm a safe, smart rider then boom gravity and asphalt suddenly teaches you something different.  We wear gear so we can try to keep in the game and not be sidelined, yet it still happens.  :cry2:  Odds tend to be in favor of protective gear in saving one's butt.

Sometimes though it takes a good smack to knock some wisdom and sense into people.  I know my mother whacked me plenty!  :crying:I wish I had bum protection pads back then, but I didn't have a choice.  You on the other hand have a choice.  Make the right one!  :efefd0f676:

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6 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Sometimes though it takes a good smack to knock some wisdom and sense into people.  I know my mother whacked me plenty!  :crying:I wish I had bum protection pads back then, but I didn't have a choice.  You on the other hand have a choice.  Make the right one!  :efefd0f676:

Yes, I don't think locking the bathroom door and climbing out the window and down the drainpipe will cut it now.:rolleyes:

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26 minutes ago, Nic said:

I've yet to experience coming off at speed, so don't yet know how bad it can be. I've not yet fractured any bones either and have no wish to do so. Crashing on a bicycle is usually something you can walk away from, even if a little bruised and cut. The way you explain the physics of it makes me really worried about falling ... it sounds a bit like swatting a fly. I think my riding style is a little weird because I don't lean to move forward, but instead I move pressure towards my toes while staying upright with only a very slight lean to stop me falling backwards.

I haven't got a fracture till today too, yet I rode at 200Km/h regularly. I feel for Fernando, I may get it like he did at the end, from a unicycle. :)

A have some experience of the way it will feel when a accident will happen thought. I over-leaned on purpose 3 times, fall all 3 of them, I anticipated it so it was not perfect experience, but ok, if you know how to fall I believe it is manageable, bad luck excluded. 

The worst experience was the overcharge situation thought, I also knew it might happen and pushed my luck, but is was leveling-up experience :)

The wheel tilts back violently but doesn't slow down, it takes extreme effort to stay on long enough for planning a safe exit :)

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20 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Yeah, in hindsight, come to think of it, I'm still not that wise nor sensible so ha!  I defeated my mom's smackucation measures!  :w00t2:  AND I'm not even blind yet.  So there.  :P  It was all lies!!!

So the witness protection program you are now in is to protect you from your mom?:ph34r:

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1 hour ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Sometimes though it takes a good smack to knock some wisdom and sense into people.  I know my mother whacked me plenty!  :crying:

My mother had a special name for children who pushed the limits and challenged authority. She would call these children "show-me babies;" you couldn't tell them, you had to show them. I was a show-me baby :efee565ab0: I think maybe all EUC riders were once "show-me babies."

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I abhorred the idea of a full face helmet at first. I thought it hindered my peripheral sight and hearing, and it felt awkward. It was like it took some of the freedom away. But I had already had my overcharge cutout, so I knew that if something like that happened at more than a walking pace, I would REALLY want something to stop my face from becoming a skid pad. I kind of like my face exactly where it is after all...

I have also fallen of bikes more than once in my life, without a trace of gear on, walking away every time with maybe a bruise or two. But the geometry of the falls are utterly different. Even if your front wheel gets dead stuck going downhill and you go over the handlebar, you still have more time to react and prepare to take the fall. In most other cases you have sliding falls, that may be painful enough, but generally hit your butt, thighs or back, and often sideways. If you learn not to get your leg stuck under the bike, it can actually help disperse some of the energy of the fall. With a single wheel to act as a hinge, we mostly fall with the wheel behind us. And we start the fall in a disadvantaged position, with our weight already forward.

@enaon, consciously overleaning to see if you can handle a fall is not something I would count on as "experience". When this shit happens at anything more than a light jogging pace, it comes out of the blue with a fraction of a seconds warning and less than a second till you hit the ground. If you have table-tennis reflexes you may manage to take one or two steps, not more. Try going 25kph+ and you will not even know you're falling before you're already half way down on the ground.

Take Usain Bolt again as an example. Exactly what would happen if someone suddenly raised a trip wire over the track when he was looking in another direction? He would probably fall badly, like everybody else. And that is the feeling when you get a sudden cutoff. It feels like someone just glued your feet to the ground while the rest of your body continue forwards.

I don't lean much either, or rather we all do, or we wouldn't accelerate - but I keep my centre of gravity as low as possible. But that doesn't matter much, you may get a tenth of a second more to say shit before the shit hits the fan. And if you ride with bent knees, you may catapult enough to be able to take two and a half steps rather than one and a half. Or if you have trained a lot of aikido or ju jutsu you may be able to initiate a roll, maybe, don't count on it.

If you get stuck on a curb without the wheel giving up, you can actually run off at reasonably slow speeds, but a cutout is a totally different monster.

As I said: you're a grown up, you get to make your own decisions. But whistling in the dark to keep the monsters away usually is a rather futile pursuit.

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54 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

consciously overleaning to see if you can handle a fall is not something I would count on as "experience". When this shit happens at anything more than a light jogging pace, it comes out of the blue with a fraction of a seconds warning and less than a second till you hit the ground. If you have table-tennis reflexes you may manage to take one or two steps, not more. Try going 25kph+ and you will not even know you're falling before you're already half way down on the ground.

As I said: you're a grown up, you get to make your own decisions. But whistling in the dark to keep the monsters away usually is a rather futile pursuit.

I must admit I am not the average Joe, I have plenty of experience on falling and not getting hurt, I am also quite fit. This is the main reason I retreated from the gearing-up conversation, other than that I was getting on everybody's nerves. :)

I get that getting ready for it is not the same, but 1 second is plenty of time if one is aware, I don't wear a helmet in order to force me to be very aware, it worked for decades, we will see how it goes :)

the overcharge cutout (it didn't cut-out, it started biping non stop, tilted back all the way, and didn't slow down. I was going 20km/h in a 10% downward slope, hit the brakes and it happened, have done it about 10 times in a raw just before that) could be really bad I agree, I ended up free-skating on the wheel for a sec and then exit the ride, but it was my fault, it was ok in my book, a real cut-off would be worse I guess. 

I am not riding standing too, I take the tai chi squat position, it upgrades the suspension of the vehicle :)

 

54 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

With a single wheel to act as a hinge, we mostly fall with the wheel behind us. And we start the fall in a disadvantaged position, with our weight already forward.

This I cannot argue against :)

In my trials I did manage to turn my body and eventually my legs were in front of me when I stopped  but I am not very sure it will be so easy when it will matter the most. If wou watch my video, you will notice I did intall extra cooling, I ride bellow tilt backs, force my luck as much as I can in a controlled manner to see the limits, and hope for the best :)

 

 

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2 hours ago, enaon said:

I must admit I am not the average Joe, I have plenty of experience on falling and not getting hurt, I am also quite fit. This is the main reason I retreated from the gearing-up conversation, other than that I was getting on everybody's nerves. :)

In the beginning yeah, but as always when nuance enters the discussion, much less so.

2 hours ago, enaon said:

the overcharge cutout (it didn't cut-out, it started biping non stop, tilted back all the way, and didn't slow down. I was going 20km/h in a 10% downward slope, hit the brakes and it happened, have done it about 10 times in a raw just before that) could be really bad I agree, I ended up free-skating on the wheel for a sec and then exit the ride, but it was my fault, it was ok in my book, a real cut-off would be worse I guess. 

Yes it will.

2 hours ago, enaon said:

I am not riding standing too, I take the tai chi squat position, it upgrades the suspension of the vehicle :)

The only way to ride if you want to have knees left after a bump. ;) 

But you say one second is plenty. I hope you're right. But consider that the second I speak of is not from first wobble to when you're thrown, but more like from the first wobble until you're already about to smash into the ground.

Look at the video that started this thread, and time that second from where he starts to lose balance. One second in he has already taken his futile step and are just about to crash his arms into the ground.

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19 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

:ph34r:  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Who wants to know, and did my mom send you?  :efee96588e:

Oh, we're all paid to keep tabs on you. :ph34r:
Soon time for the weekly report I guess.

"Still hurt. Stop. Probably no hair on the palms of his hands yet. Stop. Expect next report after the holidays. Stop. /codename: Cheshire."

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31 minutes ago, Scatcat said:

Look at the video that started this thread, and time that second from where he starts to lose balance. One second in he has already taken his futile step and are just about to crash his arms into the ground.

the footage is frightening, looking at it I cannot really see how one could do anything, I agree. I don't know if it is adrenaline or something else, I believe it it related to being exposed to danger, I am sure all that ride bikes know the situation, where time goes by really slow. If there is a move you can make to save yourself, you have all the time in the world within that one second to find it. I agree that the time window is short to perform the action you decided, but time slows down when in danger, this is my experience till now.

this clip is nice, he has less than a sec and he has to make 4 perfect choices (after the bad one), time went reaaallyyy slow. It could be pure luck thought, I am not sure  :)

https://streamable.com/93kx0

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16 hours ago, radial said:

These canards about safety equipment somehow making you less safe have been around for at least as long as I've been involved in cycling.  They don't make any more sense to me now than they did 50 years ago.  I get that people don't like the inconvenience of strapping on gear and would rather ride around unencumbered.  But trying to rationalize that behavior as somehow safer seems silly to me. 

Think about it.  Do you drive more aggressively just because you are wearing a seatbelt and driving a car equipped with airbags?  Of course not.  By the same token, I don't ride my wheels more aggressively just because I'm geared up.  If anything, wearing gear is a constant reminder that I'm engaged in an inherently risky activity.

That’s not a good analogy, the car being equipped with airbags and a seatbelt is something you don’t even think about, you just take it for granted. Gearing up is a ritual, it’s something you definetly have to think about and take time to do. 

I most CERTAINLY ride more aggressively with gear on then without. Without gear I feel completely susceptible and naked. I ride the sidewalks or take safer routes that demand slower speeds. Even putting on a regular helmet vs a full face helmet is a noticeable difference in my “risk taking”. 

Its not perception of invincibility, but rather that i tell my mind I’m prepared as much as I can be for a fall at speed so there’s no point holding back. 

But then again, I wear full gear all the time, so riding naked scares me more than someone who rides with gear only occasionally. 

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