V8 offroad. How tough is it?

[travsformation]

Hi,

I unexpectedly found myself on a gravel track the other day for the first time. I missed a turn and Google Maps sent me down a forest track. I decided to give it a shot because it didn't seem too rough, but about halfway in, it got pretty gnarly (glad I'd been practising low-speed turns; being able to make sharp turns at less than 5 km/h to avoid big rocks definitely saved the day!). Luckily, I'd decided to strap my (cheap) Gopro (knock off) to my helmet that day, for the first time, so I actually have footage of the ride.

My question is...how strong is the V8's axle (I weight 77 kg / 170 lb fully dressed and wearing winter coat + all protective gear) and how bad is this kind of track for the V8? Do I risk damaging the wheel on the kind of terrain shown below (and going the speed I was going)?

Thanks!

P.S. Sorry for the shaky footage...no image stabilisation...

 

[Mono]

I wouldn't worry to go this kind of path at all, haven't heard of any axle problems on the V8 and don't go easy on mine at all since +7000km at 85kg dressed up.

I have once destroyed a tire sidewall on a similar ground, but I think it's an unlikely event in particular at this speed.

[Nic]

Riding over rough ground should be fine, but avoid jumping kerbs as it stresses the axle.

 

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, travsformation said:

Hi,

I unexpectedly found myself on a gravel track the other day for the first time. I missed a turn and Google Maps sent me down a forest track. I decided to give it a shot because it didn't seem too rough, but about halfway in, it got pretty gnarly (glad I'd been practising low-speed turns; being able to make sharp turns at less than 5 km/h to avoid big rocks definitely saved the day!). Luckily, I'd decided to strap my (cheap) Gopro (knock off) to my helmet that day, for the first time, so I actually have footage of the ride.

My question is...how strong is the V8's axle (I weight 77 kg / 170 lb fully dressed and wearing winter coat + all protective gear) and how bad is this kind of track for the V8? Do I risk damaging the wheel on the kind of terrain shown below (and going the speed I was going)?

Thanks!

P.S. Sorry for the shaky footage...no image stabilisation...

 

I can't imagine your V8 would have any problems from riding that trail. I will say that those trails are best (for comfort) on 18+ inch wheels, the bigger the better.

[Elzilcho]

I go on rough tracks as a part of my daily commute and avoid big rocks etc more for my knee's sake than the wheel. Have hit some nasty potholes and tree roots but the only time Ive come off was full speed (25km+)on to a piece of sidewalk that had been cut out and filled with sand. Wheel stopped dead and I went flying but it was an easy kinda shuttle run to jog and woulda looked impressive:) woulda been way worse on a bike if Id stopped dead. Ive got almost 40kgs on u too so I think no stress whatsoever on a rough gravel path (unless you have snakes everywhere like we do...) and its just another learning curve, be careful and no kamikaze runs  

[Elzilcho]

although seriously watch out for the water ruts! we get cuts across the tracks and some of them can be like cattle grids here at least, and your terrain look very similar to mine... the V8 dont handle them too well...

[travsformation]

5 hours ago, Mono said:

I wouldn't worry to go this kind of path at all, haven't heard of any axle problems on the V8 and don't go easy on mine at all since +7000km at 85kg dressed up.

Thanks, it's great to get a first-hand account!  After all, this is a $1000 machine, I wanted to be on the safe side, as I doubt warranty covers foolish riding choices...

5 hours ago, Nic said:

Riding over rough ground should be fine, but avoid jumping kerbs as it stresses the axle.

Damn! I was kind of hoping that given its max. payoad is 120kg, my 77 kg would give me about 40 kg worth of vertical-impact wiggle room   So none of this for me then I guess...

I wonder what the rider in the video you posted did to stress the axle like that.... (maybe something similar to the stuff in the video linked above?)

I'm guessing the same axle stress applies to hitting speedbumps at speed too, right?

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I can't imagine your V8 would have any problems from riding that trail. I will say that those trails are best (for comfort) on 18+ inch wheels, the bigger the better.

Thanks! And I can definitely see what you mean about comfort...my next wheel will probably be a KS 18XL

2 hours ago, Elzilcho said:

I go on rough tracks as a part of my daily commute and avoid big rocks etc more for my knee's sake than the wheel. Have hit some nasty potholes and tree roots but the only time Ive come off was full speed (25km+)on to a piece of sidewalk that had been cut out and filled with sand. Wheel stopped dead and I went flying but it was an easy kinda shuttle run to jog and woulda looked impressive:) woulda been way worse on a bike if Id stopped dead. Ive got almost 40kgs on u too so I think no stress whatsoever on a rough gravel path (unless you have snakes everywhere like we do...) and its just another learning curve, be careful and no kamikaze runs  

I know what you mean about the knees...I was feeling pretty smug after pretty much nailing my first offroad track (only one fall), but my knees ached like hell after that, so I reckon I could call it instant Karma (for vanity)   My other concern in terms of avoiding big rocks is avoiding a faceplant, which wouldn't be surprising with my current skill level on that kind of terrain...

Hahaha that must have been impressive to see! Glad it didn't amount to serious injury!

Glad to get more confirmation about not worrying about the wheel! Am also glad I don't have snakes to deal with! (If I did, I'd probably be much more prone to kamikaze escape-runs!). And about the ruts...I discovered that the hard way (good thing I wasn't going faster than I can run)
 

[StyleTang]

consider your weight, pls use high tire pressure.  like 45PSI or  3.2~3.5Bar. 

[travsformation]

3 hours ago, StyleTang said:

consider your weight, pls use high tire pressure.  like 45PSI or  3.2~3.5Bar. 

Based on my weight and the graph that's been shared quite a few times around the forum, I'm using 36 PSI. I've tried higher and lower, and 36 seems to work well for me: the roads in my residential area are often not too smooth and full of bumps, so a softer tire makes the ride more comfortable, and at the pressure I'm using, I don't find it affects manoeuvrability.

On the other hand, I'm a 4WD enthusiast, and for tough trails, you always need lower pressure: it makes the ride more comfortable, but more importantly, it increases the tire's footprint (contact surface with the ground), improves traction, and makes it less prone to punctures from sharp rocks or protruding objects (as you can see here). That's why people who practice off-roading always have a pressure gauge and an air compressor in their 4WD. For folks doing heavy offroading on their wheel (¿KS18 and Z10 perhaps?), It might not be a bad idea to carry a small pressure gauge and a compact bicycle hand pump in your backpack. Leave home with the road pressure that you usually ride at, and when you reach the track, use the gauge to air down a little (offroad vehicles air down to 40% of their usual pressure or less, but I wouldn't recommend that with inner tubes or you risk getting a "pinch flat". I'd say a 25% pressure reduction max. should be a safe bet). When you get back to the tarmac, pump back up 'til the tire is nice an hard, then use the gauge to release a little air (if needed) until you reach your usual on-road riding pressure. It might not be necessary, but your knees will thank you and you'll reduce the risk of getting a puncture. The only downside, in my experience, is that the tire's sidewalls are more exposed and prone to damage.

Just my 2 cents as an off-road driver....hope it's of use to someone

 

[Nic]

3 hours ago, travsformation said:

 I'm using 36 PSI. I've tried higher and lower, and 36 seems to work well for me: the roads in my residential area are often not too smooth and full of bumps, so a softer tire makes the ride more comfortable, and at the pressure I'm using, I don't find it affects manoeuvrability.

Lower tyre pressure stresses the tyre sidewall and can lead to premature failure. Lower pressure consumes energy due to sidewall flexing and reduces range. It can also lead to rim damage if too low and you bottom out on a drop. I run my V8 at 55 PSI and prefer it at that setting. I don't find it uncomfortable at all (my weight is 75kg). Given that you'll probably wear out your tyre before the sidewall fails I don't think you have anything to worry about, but I just wanted to add in the potential downside to low tyre pressure ... its not all roses.

[travsformation]

@Nic Good point. Too low is definitely a risk in terms of the tire (and rim), but dropping it from 55 to 45 or 40 PSI shouldn't be an issue (depending on the rider's weight, of course). All the same, it's good that you pointed that out for the sake of future readers of this thread.

 

[StyleTang]

8 hours ago, Nic said:

It can also lead to rim damage if too low and you bottom out on

 

12 hours ago, travsformation said:

Based on my weight and the graph that's been shared quite a few times around the forum, I'm using 36 PSI. I've tried higher and lower, and 36 seems to work well for me: the roads in my residential area are often not too smooth and full of bumps, so a softer tire makes the ride more comfortable, and at the pressure I'm using, I don't find it affects manoeuvrability.

On the other hand, I'm a 4WD enthusiast, and for tough trails, you always need lower pressure: it makes the ride more comfortable, but more importantly, it increases the tire's footprint (contact surface with the ground), improves traction, and makes it less prone to punctures from sharp rocks or protruding objects (as you can see here). That's why people who practice off-roading always have a pressure gauge and an air compressor in their 4WD. For folks doing heavy offroading on their wheel (¿KS18 and Z10 perhaps?), It might not be a bad idea to carry a small pressure gauge and a compact bicycle hand pump in your backpack. Leave home with the road pressure that you usually ride at, and when you reach the track, use the gauge to air down a little (offroad vehicles air down to 40% of their usual pressure or less, but I wouldn't recommend that with inner tubes or you risk getting a "pinch flat". I'd say a 25% pressure reduction max. should be a safe bet). When you get back to the tarmac, pump back up 'til the tire is nice an hard, then use the gauge to release a little air (if needed) until you reach your usual on-road riding pressure. It might not be necessary, but your knees will thank you and you'll reduce the risk of getting a puncture. The only downside, in my experience, is that the tire's sidewalls are more exposed and prone to damage.

Just my 2 cents as an off-road driver....hope it's of use to someone

 

thanks for these tips, i just don't want to change trie, , so always ride with high tire pressure. 

[LanghamP]

I've so many snakebites and punctures on all my wheels except for the MSuper, it is surely over a dozen. And I just discovered another puncture on my KS16S last night. Punctures on my bicycles are rare.

I think once you're above 190 pounds or so, EUCs are very prone to tire punctures due to the highest pressure of all terrestrial vehicles.

Bent valve innertubes are rare and with $20 for a replacement plus $20 shipping, I've taken the risk and simply ordered the Kenda straight valve innertube for $7, and hopefully my air chuck can reach it.

[travsformation]

11 hours ago, LanghamP said:

I've so many snakebites and punctures on all my wheels except for the MSuper, it is surely over a dozen.

Yikes! Glad they're going for the wheel and not the rider....what kind of snakes d'you have in Missouri?

11 hours ago, LanghamP said:

Punctures on my bicycles are rare.

I think once you're above 190 pounds or so, EUCs are very prone to tire punctures due to the highest pressure of all terrestrial vehicles.

All the weight on one wheel....makes sense. Have you considered/tried slime? I'm considering it as a preventive measure, just to be on the safe side

11 hours ago, LanghamP said:

Bent valve innertubes are rare and with $20 for a replacement plus $20 shipping, I've taken the risk and simply ordered the Kenda straight valve innertube for $7, and hopefully my air chuck can reach it.

Another consideration for a straight air valve is its length: if it protrudes too much, you might have issues with iit hitting the EUC's shell

[Mono]

15 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Another consideration for a straight air valve is its length: if it protrudes too much, you might have issues with iit hitting the EUC's shell

I have mounted four or five different tubes by now and none of them hit the shell of the V8.

[travsformation]

14 minutes ago, Mono said:

I have mounted four or five different tubes by now and none of them hit the shell of the V8.

Good to know! Thanks!

I think I'll order some slime AND some spare inner tubes so I'm ready for the first puncture

[LanghamP]

I'm now wary of putting Slime in my tires because they seem to have several problems.

1. Slimed tires leak slowly getting, then quicker and quicker.

2. I'm not absolutely sure but I think patched holes get wet and unsticks from the Slime that's pushed out from the tire.

3. The Slime pushes itself into the valve; I usually replace the valve stem and clean out the valve.

In the sense that Slime gets you home, I think it works great, but for me they have not worked as permanent repairs and do require maintenance.

In my opinion, properly spending an hour replacing the entire innertube and tires that are getting thin is the proper course of action.

I've actually been looking into both tubeless and airless tires. I think both have merit.