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MSuper X SpazZing Out


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I was going for a ride around a path I ride frequently when suddenly for no reason I felt my MSuper X give a slight jolt and make a small tick/clunk sound. I was surprised and thought possibly I may have ridden over a stick or something I hadn't noticed, so turned around and went back to see if I could see anything. There was nothing to be seen, but while poking back I felt the same 'tick' again. I then proceeded to give fore and back oscillations to see if I could work out what was going on. I had just replaced one of the pedals and thought potentially something was loose in there so I was trying to find out what was knocking, then the wheel completely spazzed out! There were several loud clunking/knocking sounds, then the motor completely disengaged and the alarm sounded. After turning it off and back on again the motor re-engaged but after just a a moment of rotation it spazzed out again.

After walking the wheel back home and removing the sides to see if I could see anything wrong I made this video to demonstrate:

Anyone know what's going on or what I can do to get it working again?

 

Note I live in Australia and we don't really have any service centers here. This unit in particular I ordered from Green Fashion off AliExpress.

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As this ticks where coming when driving, i would go for defect Motor hall sensors or a defect gyro!

Nonetheless: At first i would check if the board has any Chance to vibrate, as vibrations can cause such behaviour, too!

If the board is tight...i would say a board or Motor swap is needed  :-( 

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Thanks guys.

So far as I can tell the board is secure but I'm not exactly sure what I am checking. Just pressing on it with my fingers doesn't cause it to wiggle or anything.

How would I check the Hall Sensor? It would not surprise me if this was the problem. As it was I had just replaced the right-side foot plate and had quite a battle removing the old (and slightly bent) axle. I got it eventually but had to resort to using a mallet and long, slightly narrower bolt to chase the axle out. Much like at 15 seconds into this video: 

However my tapping with the mallet was not nearly so genteel ;). Though it wasn't outrageously violent it would not surprise me if I managed to shake a connection or similar with me malleting. Where should I check the Hall Sensor  connection?

20181115_090018.thumb.jpg.009bf9548720b3189fb50ee10f0c90e4.jpg

 

Another curious thing that has always concerned me was that right from when I first received the wheel I couldn't help but notice it had a noticeable rattle when rotated to full forward or backward. It sounded like there was a loose bolt or something inside: 

 

I didn't know what to do about it and didn't want to open up my bran new wheel unnecessarily so just kind of hoped it was nothing important. Anyway, after this seeming electrical failure I decided to open up the wheel to see if I could find a loose bolt and was surprised to discover it was in fact just a random piece of plastic. It's a size and colour that seems consistent with the plastic Gotway use them selves, but there does not seem to be any broken off edges inside the wheel itself. Try as I might I just can not work out where it has broken off from and the only thing I can conclude is that it's a foreign piece that simply fell  in there while at the factory:

MSuperFragment.thumb.jpg.23f71247450e281adc874ee001f67f4f.jpg

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anyway, this fragment actually fell out of the left hand (non-control board) side so I don't think it's contributed to any of the current problems.

 

So, how would I check the Hall Sensor itself?

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28 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

As it was I had just replaced the right-side foot plate and had quite a battle removing the old (and slightly bent) axle.

A slightly bent axle is bad. And having a fight with it, too - the motor and hall cables go into the motor by the axle. If any of them get "offended" this could be exactly your problem...

Ps.: Just took a short glimpse on ?speedyfeets? Video at your mentioned second 15 - this seems to be the "bolt" holding the peddle and not the motor axle! If so forget and ignore everything i wrote above!

Edited by Chriull
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The black sleeve coming out of the motor has the 3 thick motor power cables, and the thin ones are the hall sensor wires. So you can see where they go into the board. Be careful, they're very brittle. Hall sensors are in the wheel, I don't think you can test them other than the wheel giving you a hall sensor error.

I recall one guy here having a problem (not sure if it was like yours) that turned out to be caused by the small white hall sensor connector into the board - the wires weren't in the connector properly, which led to a loose connection.

Anyways, you can wiggle around the hall sensor cables and the connector a bit, push them into the connector, etc, and see if it changes anything.

If it turns out you need a new motor, get it from your seller, maybe on warranty or at least with some kind of discount or something. Your wheel is too new to pretend it's just normal wear and tear or some breakdown. I can only repeat, ask your seller for a fix/replacement/partial refund first before you spend your own money.

@Chriull He meant the pedal bolt with "axle", not the motor axle. (Hitting it even heavily shouldn't affect the wheel.)

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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1 hour ago, Chriull said:

A slightly bent axle is bad. And having a fight with it, too - the motor and hall cables go into the motor by the axle. If any of them get "offended" this could be exactly your problem...

Ps.: Just took a short glimpse on ?speedyfeets? Video at your mentioned second 15 - this seems to be the "bolt" holding the peddle and not the motor axle! If so forget and ignore everything i wrote above!

I'm pretty sure he didn't mean the motor axle, but instead meant the shaft that connects the pedal to the pedal hanger.

 

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1 hour ago, Slartibartfast said:

Thanks guys.

So far as I can tell the board is secure but I'm not exactly sure what I am checking. Just pressing on it with my fingers doesn't cause it to wiggle or anything.

How would I check the Hall Sensor? It would not surprise me if this was the problem. As it was I had just replaced the right-side foot plate and had quite a battle removing the old (and slightly bent) axle. I got it eventually but had to resort to using a mallet and long, slightly narrower bolt to chase the axle out. Much like at 15 seconds into this video: 

However my tapping with the mallet was not nearly so genteel ;). Though it wasn't outrageously violent it would not surprise me if I managed to shake a connection or similar with me malleting. Where should I check the Hall Sensor  connection?

 

 

Another curious thing that has always concerned me was that right from when I first received the wheel I couldn't help but notice it had a noticeable rattle when rotated to full forward or backward. It sounded like there was a loose bolt or something inside: 

 

I didn't know what to do about it and didn't want to open up my bran new wheel unnecessarily so just kind of hoped it was nothing important. Anyway, after this seeming electrical failure I decided to open up the wheel to see if I could find a loose bolt and was surprised to discover it was in fact just a random piece of plastic. It's a size and colour that seems consistent with the plastic Gotway use them selves, but there does not seem to be any broken off edges inside the wheel itself. Try as I might I just can not work out where it has broken off from and the only thing I can conclude is that it's a foreign piece that simply fell  in there while at the factory:

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anyway, this fragment actually fell out of the left hand (non-control board) side so I don't think it's contributed to any of the current problems.

 

So, how would I check the Hall Sensor itself?

If the Hall Sensor(s) are bad you will get a repeating 2-beeps separated by 1/2-second pause when you turn on the wheel.

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12 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The black sleeve coming out of the motor has the 3 thick motor power cables, and the thin ones are the hall sensor wires. So you can see where they go into the board. Be careful, they're very brittle. Hall sensors are in the wheel, I don't think you can test them other than the wheel giving you a hall sensor error.

As best I can tell they seem to be connected fine at the board end. It's kind of hard to tell what's going on in there as it's all remarkably well sealed with silicon but from what I can make out these are the cables you're talking about, and yup, there definitely jammed in there: 👍

31647056_20181115_221359(1).png.c7cbebd1648a613016d79027d5d13e28.png

 

 

11 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

If the Hall Sensor(s) are bad you will get a repeating 2-beeps separated by 1/2-second pause when you turn on the wheel.

Yup, that's what I'm getting. I turned it on again this evening and let it beep for longer and yeah, there's no doubt about it... It's an ever ending series of two sharp beeps separated by about a 1/2-second pause 😢

 

Now to try my luck with the AliExpress Gods and start wrangling the Chinese postal service :grrr:

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12 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

If the Hall Sensor(s) are bad you will get a repeating 2-beeps separated by 1/2-second pause when you turn on the wheel.

Is there a list of beep codes available that can be posted in the forum for reference?

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Don't ask or tell the seller much, just show the video of the msX bucking and say that it must be the hall sensors. A free motor should be the least they offer, in my opinion. These reputable Ali sellers (Rockwheel Store, Green and Fashion) have quite good service, they know they need that for people to trust them enough to buy there. It's worth trying to get them to fix it (the wheel is really new after all).

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2 hours ago, Nic said:

Is there a list of beep codes available that can be posted in the forum for reference?

It's been posted multiple times. Just Google "gotway beep codes" and you'll get multiple hits. Here's the first one: https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/8773-gotway-beep-code/

 

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3 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

As best I can tell they seem to be connected fine at the board end. It's kind of hard to tell what's going on in there as it's all remarkably well sealed with silicon but from what I can make out these are the cables you're talking about, and yup, there definitely jammed in there: 👍

 

 

 

Yup, that's what I'm getting. I turned it on again this evening and let it beep for longer and yeah, there's no doubt about it... It's an ever ending series of two sharp beeps separated by about a 1/2-second pause 😢

 

Now to try my luck with the AliExpress Gods and start wrangling the Chinese postal service :grrr:

Sorry for your bad luck. Keep us up to date on your efforts. Hope it doesn't turn into an ordeal (more than it already is).

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Hall sesnor is quite easy to repair. You need open the motor, cut 3 wires from broken part, remove broken sensor, glue new one and solder 3 wires to new sensor.

If it is too difficult, maybe some electric workshop will fix it cheaply. Here, where I live, it is cheaper to fix it, than send back to China. 

 
 
 
 
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7 hours ago, Rafal said:

Hall sesnor is quite easy to repair. You need open the motor, cut 3 wires from broken part, remove broken sensor, glue new one and solder 3 wires to new sensor.

If it is too difficult, maybe some electric workshop will fix it cheaply. Here, where I live, it is cheaper to fix it, than send back to China. 

Yes, if one has the equipment and (a little experience) with soldering. Closing the motor again seems to be a little tricky, as reported here but also doable ...

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  • 2 weeks later...
40 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

Was the "here" meant to be a link?

No. That reports are somewhere here in the past...

Quote

I would be interested to see it if it were.

By now i've found this, were the axle is replaced (not needed for your case), but one sees the open motor and hall sensors

Afair the problem are the strong magnets inside, that make a reassembly a bit tricky. There is just minimal space between the magnets on the rotor ( turning "wheel" on the "outside) and the metal parts with the coils on the "inside" (stator). If by any means the magnets get in contact with the metal it's hard to separate them again. Imo "they" used small plastic cards to keep the magnets from the metal parts and only opened one side of the motor!

There were some reports describing these points, but i did not find them.... ;(

Maybe it was @Marty Backe , @Rehab1  or @Smootherposting this? Or they remember these topics to give you a link?

 

Edited by Chriull
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  • 1 month later...
On 11/16/2018 at 2:33 AM, Marty Backe said:

Sorry for your bad luck. Keep us up to date on your efforts. Hope it doesn't turn into an ordeal (more than it already is).

Well, it's definitely turning into an ordeal I'm afraid. We're now 2 months in and no closer to a result.

After a bit of back and forth Green Fashion finally sent me another control board which eventually arrived on Friday. I fitted this new board over the weekend but unfortunately it has had no effect. The wheel is behaving exactly the same with the new board as it did with the old. I wrote to Green Fashion saying as much and their response somewhat baffles me.

 

I said:

Quote

Okay, this new board finally arrived and I installed it over the weekend but still have exactly the same problem.
That is to short beeps followed by a half second delay, then two short beeps again, repeated indefinitely.

What can I do now?

 

To which they responded with:

Quote

Your line is not connected. Believe me, Hall line

 

Well, yes, I do believe them. The issue though is not that I didn't believe I had a hall sensor error (in fact I was convinced of that from the outset), the issue is that my wheel no longer works and I want it to be fixed!

Edited by Slartibartfast
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2 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

Well, it's definitely turning into an ordeal I'm afraid. We're now 2 months in and no closer to a result.

After a bit of back and forth Green Fashion finally sent me another control board which eventually arrived on Friday. I fitted this new board over the weekend but unfortunately it has had no effect. The wheel is behaving exactly the same with the new board as it did with the old. I wrote to Green Fashion saying as much and their response somewhat baffles me.

 

I said:

 

To which they responded with:

 

Well, yes, I do believe them. The issue though is not that I didn't believe I had a hall sensor error (in fact I was convinced of that from the outset), the issue is that my wheel no longer works and I want it to be fixed!

You took the reasonable first approach - replacing the control board. Now you know that the failure is in the motor (Hall sensor failure). What a pain!

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