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New riders and wheel's "learner speed limit"


travsformation
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Hi,

I was wondering I you fine gents (and ladies; Sidenote: are there any in this forum?) could give me your 2 cents on leaners and deactivating the wheel's "learner speed limit". My IM V8 is factory locked to 25 km/h, but by ignoring the app's disclaimer I can unlock it to 30 km/h (I hear that it can be set to 35 km/h via Darkbot or WheelLog; but that's probably worthy of a discussion of its own...).

It appears I'm a pretty quick learner, and by day 6 of riding I was starting to get max. speed limit warnings and tiltback from time to time. Over the past few days they've been becoming increasingly frequent, and by today (day 9) they're starting to annoy the crap out of me. Although the Inmotion app suggests leaving it at 25 km/h for a year, I feel confident enough to ride at speed (or I wouldn't do so), and as an adult, I think I have the judgement to discern when it's appropriate to max. out, and when I need to err on the side of caution and take it easy.

On the other hand...I may have reached the stage where confidence surpasses skill; after all, I haven't had a single fall yet where I didn't land on my feet (excluding the first time I tried to climb on the wheel without the help of a wall + an overload-caused buttplant :efee612b4b:), and haven't had any falls above 10-15 km/h, so I might be getting a false sense of security (or be lacking the sense of risk a proper fall would provide). What do you guys think? As a reference, I've put 100 km on the V8 so far, and on today's 15 km ride my avg. speed was 20 km/h, and max 25 km/h.

Given my brief experience with EUCs (and EUC accidents), I don't know how qualified I am to choose between the demon and the angel on my shoulder, and would appreciate any feedback you can give me (I imagine there'll be people on both sides of the fence..and am pretty sure I can guess which side the GW folks are on :efee8319ab: ).

Cheers!

 

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I would keep it low, under 20kmh if it's a good surface without people around.
Even if you feel confident, because that is when most accidents happen.
At least for a month of daily use, if not more.
Just a suggestion, it depends on many factors.

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If you're wearing a full face helmet, you can safely max out the V8's not-too-impressive top speed. Just don't push the wheel too hard into obstacles, it's not that strong. That would be my only concern about speed itself, as long as you're protected well.

I think the biggest danger at this stage is how well or badly you'd react to a surprise obstacle (like a surprise car/pedestrian cutting you off). That's what got my shins good at this stage in my learning: panic - run off - stop the wheel from tumbling with my foot - ouch. Not panicking when something doesn't go as you want it, essentially, is the thing to learn.

Also what @Dingfelder said. So true. Religiously look where you are going. Stuff always happens the one second you get light-headed and don't look.

It's less about skill and more about mindfulness and staying relaxed (which just comes from experience).

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3 hours ago, Dingfelder said:

I believe the tricky part about whether you get injured or not, once you know how to ride well, is not about skill.  Which is the scary part, because it's hard to control or allow for properly.

It's about attention

Excellent point. I don't quite think I'm at the point where I stop paying attention, but that's definitely worth taking into consideration as my confidence grows.

2 hours ago, Jean Dublin said:

I would keep it low, under 20kmh if it's a good surface without people around.

Luckily, if I pick the right time of day, it's pretty deserted. Unfortunately...as my skills improve...well, I'm not sure I'm going to be able to hold back :efee612b4b:

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

If you're wearing a full face helmet, you can safely max out the V8's not-too-impressive top speed.

:efefb6a84e: Mmmm....normal bike helmet. Couldn't afford a full-face one now if I wanted to (V8 + car insurance + healthcare insurance + sick dog and vet expenses all in the same month...) :efee565ab0:

 

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I think the biggest danger at this stage is how well or badly you'd react to a surprise obstacle [...] Not panicking when something doesn't go as you want it, essentially, is the thing to learn.

Yeah, I think it's pretty safe to say that's my main concern. I'm still a bit wobbly on steeper downhill turns so I take it easy and adapt my speed to my skill level, but all the same, if an unexpected obstacle came up, things could probably go pear-shaped anyway; and if an obstacle suddenly appears at higher speeds, I'm not too sure how I'd react. So far I've had a dog come at me and I managed to elude it, and have had to swerve quite suddenly in a couple of occasions to avoid potholes or an oncoming car, and I managed ok, but still...there's definitely room for improvement, and at higher speeds the risk is greater...I've disclocated my shoulder twice and broken ribs in 2 different occasions, so I should know by now that stupid/unexpected things can result in painful injuries with long recovery times...I definitely think that not having fallen yet is making me over-confident and contributing to my false sense of security....

I should definitely consider a full-face helmet...

I've had a few swerves that resulted in near-loss of control (wheel wobbling violently from side to side), but as you said, keeping calm and not panicking saved the day. On the first few serious wheel-wobbles on the first days I tensed up, which made things worse; now when that happens I try to relax my posture even further, it feels like instead of fighting the wheel, you let it "do it's thing" and flow with it, and that wheel-rider sync gives you much more control and helps the wheel rebalance more naturally (does that make any sense? I know what I want o say but not sure I conveyed the idea very well... :efee612b4b:)

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

It's less about skill and more about mindfulness and staying relaxed (which just comes from experience).

Definitely. Now that my level has improved and I'm starting to integrate my riding into muscle memory, it's AMAZING. Now I see what people mean by the wheel being an extension of your body, it's such an exhilirating AND relaxing feeling at the same time, so mindfulness really feels like an essential part of it. In fact, it's turning into my therapy. I can be stressed out or absent-minded, jump on the wheel, instantly empty my mind and become mindful, and get home in a much better and more relaxed mood---kind of like a form of active meditation. :)

But then again, now that I'm gaining enough confidence to enjoy riding without having to think about what I'm doing, I'm riding much faster and more aggressively (and taking more risks; you've seen what my neighbourhood looks like :efee612b4b:), which is what led me to publish this thread. I guess it's a matter of finding the right balance between enjoying the roads around my house (which were intimidating at first but are now great fun), and not being stupid/reckless. Maybe I should practice emergency evasion manoeuvres at the basketball court so I'm at least a bit better prepared in case something unexpected comes up.

Off-topic: BTW, what you mentioned about obstacles at speed...I have hit a few speedbumps a bit too fast...should I be particularly careful with that kind of stuff with the V8? And in terms of off-roading? I missed a turn the other day on the way to the supermarket and Google Maps sent me dow a dirt track: it seemed OK att first so I followed it, but MAN did it get nasty halfway in (huge rocks). My slow-speed and tight turn practice definitely came in handy and I managed in one piece, but I'm not too sure how rough a terrain the V8 can handle...

I've got video footage, I'll upload it when I get a chance to and maybe you could give me your opinion. :)

In fact, I've started editing the video footage from today too, maybe I'll upload it and post a link here so you can see my riding style, and possibly tell me how much of an idiot I am for riding the way I do when I probably don't quite have the right skills to ride that way yet... :efee612b4b: .(It looks like I just answered my own question :efee612b4b: ) It's just SO hard not to give in to the "reckless child within" once you're skill level is enough to start relaxing and enjoying the thrill of the ride! This neighbourhood has some awesome roads to ride on (you'll see what I mean when I post the video) :D

OK, enough of my rambling, sorry for the soliloquy (one of hte side-effects of insomnia...). Thanks for your advice and answers!

Edited by travsformation
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7 hours ago, travsformation said:

:efefb6a84e: Mmmm....normal bike helmet. Couldn't afford a full-face one now if I wanted to (V8 + car insurance + healthcare insurance + sick dog and vet expenses all in the same month...) :efee565ab0:

..

I should definitely consider a full-face helmet...

There's a reason we talk about faceplants, not skullcracks or whatever. On a EUC, you tend to fall on your face, that's just how it is. So on the one hand, you're only really safe with a full face helmet. On the other hand you might very well (even very likely) never "use" the damn thing, full face or not. I'm also not very happy with the 200€ my helmet cost, I guess it's just a thing you need to convince yourself you really should wear and that is worth the money. Think about possible medical side-costs of a crash alone or something.

That doesn't mean riding with a bike helmet is suddenly stupid. I rode for 5000km with no helmet. I believe crashes at speed are where full face helmets count, so just don't go too fast and you're good anyways. I was never worried on slower mountain tours, just at speed. I intentionally never disabled the 30kph default alarm on my ACM in order to force me to buy a (full face) helmet, because speed really seems the danger for hitting with your face vs. just landing on your hands/knees. (Also, now that I have a helmet, I still didn't disable the alarm so I can keep the sweet range 30 gives me, so much for the helmet:efee612b4b:)

7 hours ago, travsformation said:

I've had a few swerves that resulted in near-loss of control (wheel wobbling violently from side to side), but as you said, keeping calm and not panicking saved the day. On the first few serious wheel-wobbles on the first days I tensed up, which made things worse; now when that happens I try to relax my posture even further, it feels like instead of fighting the wheel, you let it "do it's thing" and flow with it, and that wheel-rider sync gives you much more control and helps the wheel rebalance more naturally (does that make any sense? I know what I want o say but not sure I conveyed the idea very well... :efee612b4b:)

Yep, just let yourself fall and the bucking horse under you calm down again. I know what you mean.

Honestly, it seems you're a pretty good rider already! These hills do make you learn fast and hard. So don't overthink and just find out what works for you and what does not.

7 hours ago, travsformation said:

Off-topic: BTW, what you mentioned about obstacles at speed...I have hit a few speedbumps a bit too fast...should I be particularly careful with that kind of stuff with the V8? And in terms of off-roading? I missed a turn the other day on the way to the supermarket and Google Maps sent me dow a dirt track: it seemed OK att first so I followed it, but MAN did it get nasty halfway in (huge rocks). My slow-speed and tight turn practice definitely came in handy and I managed in one piece, but I'm not too sure how rough a terrain the V8 can handle...

The only overleans I've heard of with the V8 were (heavier) people going full speed into a suddenly starting incline/hard bump, which overstressed the small battery. If you don't do that, I see no problem. Slower speeds are ok anyways, offroad or not, any rough terrain.

So you know where I'm coming from: I know I can run my ACM into any bad bump at 30 and it will stay rock-solidly level, no matter how nasty or hard. Even at low battery.

With the V8, I believe at 30 you're much closer to the max. So that's why I would be careful with the V8 at top speed. Though as we have seen, the thing is stronger than one might think. But it never hurts to err on the side of caution.

--

Now for the really important question: what wheel are you planning to get next?:efee8319ab: It seems you're ready to upgrade lol:efee612b4b:

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2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

There's a reason we talk about faceplants, not skullcracks or whatever. On a EUC, you tend to fall on your face, that's just how it is. So on the one hand, you're only really safe with a full face helmet

Hahaha excellent point! Landing on one's ja or nose at 30 km/h from a standing position definitely isn't a risk I should be taking. Do you reckon a €40 mountain-biking helmet with a removable chin-guard would do the trick (until I'm no longer broke)? Link here

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

These hills do make you learn fast and hard. So don't overthink and just find out what works for you and what does not.

They definitely do! Great fun too!

I hadn't fully recovered from my knee tendinitis when I jumped back on the wheel, and after riding for 3 days in a row, including off-road, the pain has gotten considerably worse, so I've decided to rein in my impulse to keep riding and give it some time to recover; thus all the forums posts...(The overthinking seems to comeson days when I can't ride...) :efee612b4b:

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The only overleans I've heard of with the V8 were (heavier) people going full speed into a suddenly starting incline/hard bump, which overstressed the small battery. If you don't do that, I see no problem. Slower speeds are ok anyways, offroad or not, any rough terrain. 

So you know where I'm coming from: I know I can run my ACM into any bad bump at 30 and it will stay rock-solidly level, no matter how nasty or hard. Even at low battery.

With the V8, I believe at 30 you're much closer to the max. So that's why I would be careful with the V8 at top speed.

So you mean in terms of the V8 not responding well in terms of obstacles at high speed, or in terms of it breaking and causing a crash? (I read somewhere that the V8 has a weak axle)

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Now for the really important question: what wheel are you planning to get next?:efee8319ab: It seems you're ready to upgrade lol:efee612b4b:

Hahahaha Now that's one hell of a compliment! Thanks! :D

I don't know, it'd probably be between and MSuper3s+, a KS18L or, for financial constraints, a V10F. So far, I'm impressed with IM for how strong the V8 is proving to be on the hills I'm riding it on. I hear GW has a reputation for high failure rates...if I were to push it on a hill and burn it, I'm guessing warranty wouldn't cover that so....should I let the bad rap influence my decision?

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3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Honestly, it seems you're a pretty good rider already!

I'll let you judge that yourself :efee8319ab:

Before you watch the video, a few things:

1) Sorry for the quality...€40 action camera with no image stabilisation...

2) Full-face helmet? (Forget that one) :efee612b4b:

3) Reckon I'm ready to make the MASSIVE leap from 25 km/h to 30 km/h? :efee612b4b: (and about ready for an upgrade?)

4) Let me know what you think of how well the V8 is performing on these hills (I won't ask about overloading because I already know hehe)

5) This is a GREAT place for riding, isn't it?

 

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42 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Do you reckon a €40 mountain-biking helmet with a removable chin-guard would do the trick (until I'm no longer broke)? Link here

If the chin guard is hard (instead of soft rubber), that would even be a permanent solution. I can only guess, but cushioning the first hard face-to-mouthpiece-instead-of-groud impact and not falling off while you're still sliding fast (and the ground grating your face off) is all a helmet needs to do in a faceplant situation. Cheap or not, as long as it works...

Whether to wait for funds for a more expensive helmet or getting such a cheaper one, your decision. I wouldn't see anything bad in keeping the bike helmet until you can buy a "final" helmet. Most people never crash and wear skateboard helmets at best. So it's not like it's urgent... hopefully:efee8319ab: Whatever you think you should do.

42 minutes ago, travsformation said:

So you mean in terms of the V8 not responding well in terms of obstacles at high speed, or in terms of it breaking and causing a crash? (I read somewhere that the V8 has a weak axle)

As a wheel approaches its top speed, the available torque goes to zero linearly. So if you are too close to the top speed and a sudden torque requirement comes up, you're on your face. Naturally than can only happen near top speed.

Also, if you're at a high power usage (= high current) and a sudden extra power usage comes up, it may hit the current limit of a small (2p) battery like in the V8. There were some reports of the V8 starting a bucking motion and throwing you off if you're really unlucky in such a situation. That would also likely happen near top speed, if at all.

So only "sudden obstacles at high speed" (really sudden obstacles when the wheel is near its limits, of course that applies to any wheel), I meant nothing else.

42 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Hahahaha Now that's one hell of a compliment! Thanks! :D

Wasn't really meant as a compliment, haha:efeebb3acc: It's just a lot of people getting a beginner 14 inch wheel have the desire for a bigger, badder one at this point (= very soon after buying). And while the V8 is very fine and possibly a long-term wheel, it's borderline like a 14-incher compared to bigger wheels, so it might also happen that you start to feel the upgrade urge. If not, everything's fine. Enjoy riding and the vague expectation of a future megawheel.

42 minutes ago, travsformation said:

I don't know, it'd probably be between and MSuper3s+, a KS18L or, for financial constraints, a V10F. So far, I'm impressed with IM for how strong the V8 is proving to be on the hills I'm riding it on. I hear GW has a reputation for high failure rates...if I were to push it on a hill and burn it, I'm guessing warranty wouldn't cover that so....should I let the bad rap influence my decision?

If you buy a Gotway for these hills (from your photos), it should be one with the new boards (nicely oversized TO-247 mosfets). So MCM5, msuper X, or Monster 100V. Personally I wouldn't want a Tesla and ms3 (possibly Tesla-ized) there because of the weaker board/electronics, even though it might very well be fine.

18L/XL, certainly.

V10(F), not sure, it's said to overheat easily on steeper hills, but I'm not sure how bad the problem really is, might be overblown.

If you don't need to upgrade right away, I'd wait/hope for a new 16 incher from Gotway with the new board. Maybe a Tesla 2 (with reservation regarding the price). And see what you think then.

32 minutes ago, travsformation said:

3) Reckon I'm ready to make the MASSIVE leap from 25 km/h to 30 km/h? :efee612b4b: (and about ready for an upgrade?)

4) Let me know what you think of how well the V8 is performing on these hills (I won't ask about overloading because I already know hehe)

5) This is a GREAT place for riding, isn't it?

Cool video! Looks like you're having fun.

3) Only you can tell. We're not some magical white-bearded wise EUC-elders sitting under a tree of wisdom somewhere:efee47c9c8:

4) The inclines you show in the video look pretty tame compared to your photos. If the wheel doesn't beep at you for high stress or whatever, it means you're good.

5) Yep, hills are fun. I love the elevator feeling going up one.

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

If the chin guard is hard (instead of soft rubber), that would even be a permanent solution. I can only guess, but cushioning the first hard face-to-mouthpiece-instead-of-groud impact and not falling off while you're still sliding fast (and the ground grating your face off) is all a helmet needs to do in a faceplant situation. Cheap or not, as long as it works... 

Whether to wait for funds for a more expensive helmet or getting such a cheaper one, your decision. I wouldn't see anything bad in keeping the bike helmet until you can buy a "final" helmet. Most people never crash and wear skateboard helmets at best. So it's not like it's urgent... hopefully:efee8319ab: Whatever you think you should do.

It seems to be hard, but in the comments section,  people mention that the chin-guard is too flexible. Maybe I'll go for a motocross helmet instead of a BMX/MTB downhill one, maybe one with a sun/win visor (never had one, wondering how much that affects visibility)

I think I'll just go ahead and get one (research first, of course). I've spent enough time in rehab to last me a lifetime and your graphic explanations of "skull-crushin" and "face-grating" definitely tipped the scale in favour of a full-face helmet. Not that I think my face is a beauty to look at, but I'd rather keep it the way it is than worsen it :efee612b4b:

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

As a wheel approaches its top speed, the available torque goes to zero linearly. So if you are too close to the top speed and a sudden torque requirement comes up, you're on your face. Naturally than can only happen near top speed.

Also, if you're at a high power usage (= high current) and a sudden extra power usage comes up, it may hit the current limit of a small (2p) battery like in the V8. There were some reports of the V8 starting a bucking motion and throwing you off if you're really unlucky in such a situation. That would also likely happen near top speed, if at all.

OK, I finally understood you (am a bit slow today...) Thanks for the explanation! Definitely worth keeping in mind when I approah my ridiculously fast 30 km/h :efee612b4b: (BTW, that also dispelled any doubts about unlocking it to 35 km/h)

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Wasn't really meant as a compliment, haha:efeebb3acc: It's just a lot of people getting a beginner 14 inch wheel have the desire for a bigger, badder one at this point (= very soon after buying). And while the V8 is very fine and possibly a long-term wheel, it's borderline like a 14-incher compared to bigger wheels, so it might also happen that you start to feel the upgrade urge. If not, everything's fine. Enjoy riding and the vague expectation of a future megawheel.

It wasn't?! Damnit! I need validation! Well, I'll take it as a compliment anyway then hahaha

I see what you mean....at this stage, uunlocking it to 30 km/h will be an upgrade that I'll enjoy for a while, but I can easily see how that'll feel too sluggish pretty soon.

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

If you buy a Gotway for these hills (from your photos), it should be one with the new boards (nicely oversized TO-247 mosfets). So MCM5, msuper X, or Monster 100V. Personally I wouldn't want a Tesla and ms3 (possibly Tesla-ized) there because of the weaker board/electronics, even though it might very well be fine.

18L/XL, certainly.

V10(F), not sure, it's said to overheat easily on steeper hills, but I'm not sure how bad the problem really is, might be overblown.

If you don't need to upgrade right away, I'd wait/hope for a new 16 incher from Gotway with the new board. Maybe a Tesla 2 (with reservation regarding the price). And see what you think then.

GW options duly noted, thanks! 18L/XL probably well worth the money too, and maybe not too hard to adapt to. Even though it's an 18" wheel, the V8 is a pretty tall wheel. Will do my research on the V10F. In any case, I'll probably hold on to the V8 for a bit longer (after all, I can't even afford a helmet :efee612b4b:) and upgrade further down the road. How do EUC's value hold up for re-sale purposes? (supposing it's in good condition and not all banged up)

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Cool video! Looks like you're having fun.

3) Only you can tell. We're not some magical white-bearded wise EUC-elders sitting under a tree of wisdom somewhere:efee47c9c8:

4) The inclines you show in the video look pretty tame compared to your photos. If the wheel doesn't beep at you for high stress or whatever, it means you're good. 

5) Yep, hills are fun. I love the elevator feeling going up one.

A GoPro Hero 7 would definitely be a good riding/filming upgrade, but then again, back to square 1: I can't even afford a helmet :efee612b4b:

3) Damnit! Couldn't you have broken the news a bit more delicately? I thought ALL vetern members had white beards and lived in the The Shire! Next thing I know, you'll be telling me Santa Claus doesn't exist! :efee612b4b:

4) Yeah, I had to edit out thr majority of my footage because it was unusable. Maybe the next time I'll mount the camera on my helmet instead so it isn't as shaky

5) Definitely! (elevator on steroids!) And carving curves when you have the whole road to yourself is awesome too!

OK, I'll stop pestering you (for now)....:efee612b4b: Thanks for your help!

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32 minutes ago, travsformation said:

I think I'll just go ahead and get one (research first, of course). I've spent enough time in rehab to last me a lifetime and your graphic explanations of "skull-crushin" and "face-grating" definitely tipped the scale in favour of a full-face helmet.

Haha, it's just how I imagine a facecrash might go. Maybe the grating won't happen because you turn your head? I don't want to find out.

Helmets, I'm happy with my Fox Proframe, very light but it's 180€ and airy, so definitely not suitable for cold weather riding. Great in the summer heat though (as far as helmets can be). I'll need a winter helmet, too, probably like a motorcycle helmet with a closable visor. So if you find a nice one...

@eddiemoy has a cool looking one in his videos but it's $$$:eff05cf9bc:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K2T0PW2/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ll1&tag=metvproduct0a-20&linkId=19dcca80cd25e7539a1b7454b188dd2e

34 minutes ago, travsformation said:

(BTW, that also dispelled any doubts about unlocking it to 35 km/h)

Good:efee47c9c8:

36 minutes ago, travsformation said:

How do EUC's value hold up for re-sale purposes? (supposing it's in good condition and not all banged up)

After the considerable initial depreciation (already too late for that:efeebb3acc:), pretty well. A used 14D/14S or V8 for a good price is the ideal wheel for a thrifty beginner. Shouldn't be too hard to sell a V8.

Bigger wheels are another thing, to sell an msuper V3 when the msuper X exists, you'll have to reduce the price a lot, e.g. But in the end, just a question of price.

A V8 sold for 550 in the private sales forum lately.

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57 minutes ago, travsformation said:

I see what you mean....at this stage, uunlocking it to 30 km/h will be an upgrade that I'll enjoy for a while, but I can easily see how that'll feel too sluggish pretty soon.

About that, it's quite significant. After the initial learning process, 25 km/h becomes "unbearably, agonizingly slow" quickly, with grandmas on bicycles overtaking you (before wheel, 25 seems pretty fast before you know how fast that is). But 30 is "could be a bit faster, but pretty nice". It's a big difference, from unusable/too slow to actually useful.

I'm just not sure how long the V8 will allow 30 before throttling due to battery begins. You'll see.

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38 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Haha, it's just how I imagine a facecrash might go. Maybe the grating won't happen because you turn your head? I don't want to find out.

Yeah, regadless of exactly how it plays out, it wouldn't be pretty...I'm not too keen on finding out either...

About helmets...I'm going to have to go for something cheaper. Maybe like this one. Seems like a decent compromise and possibly a long-term solution

38 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

After the considerable initial depreciation (already too late for that:efeebb3acc:), pretty well. A used 14D/14S or V8 for a good price is the ideal wheel for a thrifty beginner. Shouldn't be too hard to sell a V8.

Bigger wheels are another thing, to sell an msuper V3 when the msuper X exists, you'll have to reduce the price a lot, e.g. But in the end, just a question of price.

A V8 sold for 550 in the private sales forum lately.

Cool, good to know, thanks for the info! I guess I'll only have to save up 1200-1500€ then :efee612b4b:

29 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

About that, it's quite significant. [...] 30 is "could be a bit faster, but pretty nice". It's a big difference, from unusable/too slow to actually useful.

I'm just not sure how long the V8 will allow 30 before throttling due to battery begins. You'll see.

Great! I'm looking forward to finding out for myself as soon as my leg is better. I've pushed it too far and would be wise to let it recover properly before forcing it an more....Arrrrrhg!!! So hard to resist the urge to go for a ride anyway!!!

Oh, the throttling....that....well, I guess I'll find out. And even if it is a pain in the ass, I'm definitely in favour of security measures like that (or at least that's what I say now). To the argument that riders shouldn't be limited by the wheel's firmware and should be free to decide for themselves...I think that unless you have a pebble or your phone in your hand and are constanntly monitoring speed and current, it's not that bad an idea for the wheel to make certain decisions for you (because you can't be reading the data constantly while you're riding > not paying 100% attention to your riding), in the interest of safety and preventing faceplants...

Then again, I might change my mind depending on the threshold and when the throttling begins.... but all the same, if I find it annoying, I don't think it's a matter of doubting the V8's security measures, but of buying a more powerful wheel

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8 minutes ago, travsformation said:

About helmets...I'm going to have to go for something cheaper. Maybe like this one. Seems like a decent compromise and possibly a long-term solution

Yea the thing is 250€ here, too expensive for me as well. Just wanted to post is as aspirational:efee8319ab: The one you posted is nice, too.

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18 hours ago, travsformation said:

Given my brief experience with EUCs (and EUC accidents), I don't know how qualified I am to choose between the demon and the angel on my shoulder, and would appreciate any feedback you can give me (I imagine there'll be people on both sides of the fence..and am pretty sure I can guess which side the GW folks are on :efee8319ab: ).

Cheers!

 

From myself (a beginner) I posted this a few days back. 

 

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21 minutes ago, travsformation said:

About helmets...I'm going to have to go for something cheaper. Maybe like this one. Seems like a decent compromise and possibly a long-term solution

I went with an AFX FX-39 DS for my helmet choice. It is very protective ( I gave it a real test the hard way!) and light, very cost friendly, many options to accessorize, and it looks great in my opinion.

IMG_20181103_161855.jpg

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37 minutes ago, Girth Brooks said:

From myself (a beginner) I posted this a few days back. 

 

Thanks!
What do you think about something like this? The shape is more ergonomic, so I feel there's less of a risk of the plate digging into your palm (I used to have some wrist guards similar  to the triple8's and I remember that, although they saved the day, they hurt like hell well I fell). I have the feeling the ones I posted might be better in that sense, and offer good abrasion protection, but not too sure about the other plate...might limit flexibility...

Edited by travsformation
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8 minutes ago, Girth Brooks said:

I went with an AFX FX-39 DS for my helmet choice. It is very protective ( I gave it a real test the hard way!) and light, very cost friendly, many options to accessorize, and it looks great in my opinion.

They don't seem to have that brand here, but I'll look into something similar, thanks! How is it in terms of field of view? Does it limit your lateral view much?

 

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7 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Thanks!
What do you think about something like this? The shape is more ergonomic, so I feel there's less of a risk of the pplate digging into your palm (I used to have some wrist guards similar  to the triple8's and I remember that, although they saved the say, they hurt like hell well I fell). I have the feeling the ones I posted might be better in that sense, and offer good abrasion protection, but not too sure about the other plate...might limit flexibility...

I think those wrist guards would do the job. The protruding piece you speak of on mine is what saves you as it flattens out on impact and lets your arms slide out instead jamming/breaking them with your body weight in a fall.

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9 minutes ago, travsformation said:

They don't seem to have that brand here, but I'll look into something similar, thanks! How is it in terms of field of view? Does it limit your lateral view much?

 

I have full view with my helmet. I will say I will get a more free flowing helmet when the heat comes back for the summer next year, but this will be what I wear during the Spring and Autumn.

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14 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Thanks!
What do you think about something like this? The shape is more ergonomic, so I feel there's less of a risk of the pplate digging into your palm (I used to have some wrist guards similar  to the triple8's and I remember that, although they saved the say, they hurt like hell well I fell). I have the feeling the ones I posted might be better in that sense, and offer good abrasion protection, but not too sure about the other plate...might limit flexibility...

Nice find! Never seen ones like these, they look effective, and the price is great.

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@travsformation that comfort and confidence level will get you at some point. It is almost a guarantee as it is repeatedly stated all over this forum. Thanks to the wonderful folks on this forum for posting and giving advice that I read, I was protected fully because I don't feel there was or ever will be a way to be prepared for your wheel coming to a sudden stop at a 33kmh.

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4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Haha, it's just how I imagine a facecrash might go. Maybe the grating won't happen because you turn your head? I don't want to find out.

Helmets, I'm happy with my Fox Proframe, very light but it's 180€ and airy, so definitely not suitable for cold weather riding. Great in the summer heat though (as far as helmets can be). I'll need a winter helmet, too, probably like a motorcycle helmet with a closable visor. So if you find a nice one...

@eddiemoy has a cool looking one in his videos but it's $$$:eff05cf9bc:https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K2T0PW2/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ll1&tag=metvproduct0a-20&linkId=19dcca80cd25e7539a1b7454b188dd2e

Good:efee47c9c8:

After the considerable initial depreciation (already too late for that:efeebb3acc:), pretty well. A used 14D/14S or V8 for a good price is the ideal wheel for a thrifty beginner. Shouldn't be too hard to sell a V8.

Bigger wheels are another thing, to sell an msuper V3 when the msuper X exists, you'll have to reduce the price a lot, e.g. But in the end, just a question of price.

A V8 sold for 550 in the private sales forum lately.

The TSG Pass helmet is really good!  Light and comfortable.  They sometimes go on sale, the colors are not as popular.  

 

22 hours ago, travsformation said:

Hi,

I was wondering I you fine gents (and ladies; Sidenote: are there any in this forum?) could give me your 2 cents on leaners and deactivating the wheel's "learner speed limit". My IM V8 is factory locked to 25 km/h, but by ignoring the app's disclaimer I can unlock it to 30 km/h (I hear that it can be set to 35 km/h via Darkbot or WheelLog; but that's probably worthy of a discussion of its own...).

It appears I'm a pretty quick learner, and by day 6 of riding I was starting to get max. speed limit warnings and tiltback from time to time. Over the past few days they've been becoming increasingly frequent, and by today (day 9) they're starting to annoy the crap out of me. Although the Inmotion app suggests leaving it at 25 km/h for a year, I feel confident enough to ride at speed (or I wouldn't do so), and as an adult, I think I have the judgement to discern when it's appropriate to max. out, and when I need to err on the side of caution and take it easy.

On the other hand...I may have reached the stage where confidence surpasses skill; after all, I haven't had a single fall yet where I didn't land on my feet (excluding the first time I tried to climb on the wheel without the help of a wall + an overload-caused buttplant :efee612b4b:), and haven't had any falls above 10-15 km/h, so I might be getting a false sense of security (or be lacking the sense of risk a proper fall would provide). What do you guys think? As a reference, I've put 100 km on the V8 so far, and on today's 15 km ride my avg. speed was 20 km/h, and max 25 km/h.

Given my brief experience with EUCs (and EUC accidents), I don't know how qualified I am to choose between the demon and the angel on my shoulder, and would appreciate any feedback you can give me (I imagine there'll be people on both sides of the fence..and am pretty sure I can guess which side the GW folks are on :efee8319ab: ).

Cheers!

 

It isn’t a question of if you will fall, just a question of when.  And when you do fall, depending on the severity, you could either jump back on or put you out for months with a huge blow to your confidence.  What will bro is if you wear protection.  But it doesn’t guarantee that you will not get hurt, just less.   Just about everyone I know have fallen even the “pros” with years under their belt.  

For the first year I wore nothing.  Escaped some how a dozen near really bad accidents.  One where I went airbourn and came back down with one foot half off and the other foot just the toe.  Seen so many accidents and one I our group having a concussion and can’t even remember the accident.  

Even Ian from speedyfeet has had a recent low speed accident that he is still recovering from.  

My suggestion is to gear up.  Then you go with the speed you are comfortable with.  Falling is a given.  Just have to be prepared for it. Have fun!  

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4 hours ago, Girth Brooks said:

I think those wrist guards would do the job. The protruding piece you speak of on mine is what saves you as it flattens out on impact and lets your arms slide out instead jamming/breaking them with your body weight in a fall.

Yeah, I think with the ones I found (and bought) today, I won't get as much impact resistence, but the abrasion protection should contribute to the slide and minimise the impact (or transfer it to the elbow/shoulder). About the protruding piece on yours...I guess the last time I used a wrist guard (as a teenager, rollerblading), I wasn't heavy enough for it to flatten out :efee612b4b:

4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Nice find! Never seen ones like these, they look effective, and the price is great.

I'll let you know how they work (hopefully later than sooner!)

4 hours ago, Girth Brooks said:

@travsformation that comfort and confidence level will get you at some point. It is almost a guarantee as it is repeatedly stated all over this forum.

Yeah, I can see how that might not take too long to happen at this stage...will be well preapred!

4 hours ago, Girth Brooks said:

Thanks to the wonderful folks on this forum for posting and giving advice that I read, I was protected fully because I don't feel there was or ever will be a way to be prepared for your wheel coming to a sudden stop at a 33kmh. 

This forum is definitely invaluable, and full of great ideas and welcoming people willing to (patiently) give newcomers plenty of useful tips :)

I discovered it while I was (impatiently) waiting to receive my wheel (nothing ever gets anywhere on time in Spain), and realised how important protective gear was, so I was fully equipped with wrist, knee and elbow guards + bike helmet by the time I got the wheel. Shin guards came soon after, and I've ordered the new wrist guards (the ones I've been using were complete crap) + a full-faced helmet. Decided to go for this one (54€):

2n00u95.jpg

We'll see how it fairs. No reviews on Amazon, but one's gotta take risks sometimes (or one wouldn't be riding an EUC in the first place) :efee612b4b:

I wouldn't have used the visor on the other one, I find that when closed, they isolate me too much (acoustically) from my surroundings, and with Spanish weather, I can just put on my skiing sunglasses (the kind that don't break and get glass in your eyes).

Am hoping I won't have to test its sturdiness any time soon, but I've decided to leave the 25 km/h limit on and try not to ride too over-confidently until I get it. @meepmeepmayer, your face-grating analogy really did a number on me! :efee8319ab:

 

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1 hour ago, eddiemoy said:

It isn’t a question of if you will fall, just a question of when.

Good advice :)

Yeah, it seems no one eludes the asphalt! It will also be interesting to see whether a "proper" fall acts as a deterrent (to speed, the wheel, or both). I've read a few stories of people who had one serious fall and never got back on the wheel again (can't recall if they were wearing protection though)

Glad to hear luck was on your side when riding with no protection. What made you change your mind and gear up?

1 hour ago, eddiemoy said:

My suggestion is to gear up.  Then you go with the speed you are comfortable with.  Falling is a given.  Just have to be prepared for it. Have fun!  

Great advice, thanks! :)

If I had to summarise the ideas posted in this thread (BTW, thanks guys!), I guess it would be gear up, pay attention and be mindful, expect unforseen obstacles (even if you can't do anything about them), go the speed you're comfortable with, don't overstress (piss off) your wheel to the point where you're asking for a faceplant, and of course, expect to fall.

Ah yeah, that, and veteran members aren't white-bearded, all-knowing wizards! (Although the community as a whole might very well amount to one hive-mind mega-wizard) 

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