stephen Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 I think most faceplants are caused when the machine cuts out especially when you are leaning forward , the force by leaning forward and the machine going limp there's only one place your body's going to go ,,, you guessed it just straight on the floor ??... Google YouTube for an euc faceplant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 In order to faceplant, some part of the forward motion needs to be transformed in a rotation. I agree with @Circuitmage that this is not obvious to happen, but we have quite some empirical evidence that it can and does happen. For similar reasons some people have argued that speed doesn't matter, because the height from where the rider falls is independent of the speed. That may indeed be somewhat true for the first impact if someone lands on their knees. That is not true at all if the forward motion has been transformed into a rotation. In this case the head could in principle hit the ground with the full current speed and even faster (in principle). (Some time ago someone in this forum posted a vid with a stick in vertical position thrown out of a moving car to illustrate the effect). I think it all depends on the body posture and the reflex the rider has when something goes wrong. Leaning forward in the first place and then stretching the legs when something unexpected happens makes a faceplant very likely. An upright body posture when accelerating and bending the knees trying to keep the body upright (like a mogul skier) when something unexpected happens, even up to the extreme to go down on the knees, is likely to prevent the faceplant. How did you acquire your (I believe unusual) reflexes, @Circuitmage? It's what I often see people do in halfpipes or bowls (on Youtube). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsiang Posted November 13, 2018 Author Share Posted November 13, 2018 55 minutes ago, Circuitmage said: Hope you heal up fast. Is there a specific reason people faceplant as opposed to landing on their knees? So far, the several times I have fallen off, I go straight forward and my knees or hands catch my fall. That is very bad news for my knees, but good news for the rest of my body. I am still healing from my last fall 2 weeks ago (not wearing knee pads!!) , but it was relatively minor. However I have now landed on my knees enough to have several scars and downtime. Luckily, knee injuries enable one to get back on the EUC fairly quickly while healing. My last dismount at ~15 mph had me flying through the air, but both my knees hit the ground and my body remained upright. I don't quite understand the dynamics of the faceplant. From what I can tell, it is when someone is standing perfectly straight up, and tries to keep their feet on the pedals while falling. Is this a correct assessment? I make a conscious effort , especially when I speed up, to bend my knees, specifically for this option. Am I correct in thinking this will help? So far, that has seemed to mean I go down mostly on my knees. Safety 1st! Thanks! I think it has to do with speed and accelleration. I think at greater speed during a fall you actually trip over the wheel as it turn and flips and that puts you in a divin position. My fall was very strange, I watched the slowmo several time and still can't figure out what happen (Promise to post the video soon!) it looks almost like the wheel sped up and shot out from underneath me then flip and tripped me, so my feet is actually higher than my head during the fall. I think my head landed first and took most of the impact, then my chest and then my legs. My injuries matches this also, I hit hard to enough to chip my front tooth, but only suffered a slightly bruise rib on the ride side (got an xray yesterday) and no injury to the legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 16 hours ago, Hsiang said: it looks almost like the wheel sped up and shot out from underneath me then flip and tripped me To me that sounds like the wheel could’ve lost traction for a while. (Wouldn’t be the first with the hard rubber tire on the Z.) Tire starts to slip - wheel tilts forward - wheel puts out more power in hope to keep the wheel upright - tire gains traction - fast spinning tire shoots forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circuitmage Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 @Mono I was recently bitten by a spider 4 times in my left arm (true story) and afterwards gained the ability to not faceplant (not tru). LOL. Actually, it's just fear. I've already fallen enough, and had enough motorcycle falls to fear the pavement. If I am lucky enough to have a natural reaction to bend my knees and prevent a faceplant, I'm happy with that. And no, I'm not a skateboard rider. @Hsiang good info. I've watch other faceplants, and the most I can get out of it is their legs appear affixed to the EUC, so I have a conscious effort to let go if I'm falling. I understand if you are accellerating, and your feet are caught behind the pedals, this could be an unavoidable circumstance. Part of the price we pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxkan Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 I simply not ready to put that alien-looking bulky full face helmet on me. Also the speed is much less than on motorcycle so I dont think we need the level of protection of motorcycle helmet. Is there any lightweight not bulky full face alternatives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanCar Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 29 minutes ago, maxkan said: Are there any lightweight not bulky full face alternatives? I've been looking at baseball catcher's helmets. Amazon link Suspect if remove the face wires will still have good face-plant protection. American football helmet might work too. Not sure what a prowess helmet is, but that might work. Here is a hockey helmet which looks the same as a baseball catcher's helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxkan Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 12 minutes ago, DanCar said: I've been looking at baseball catcher's helmets. Amazon link American football helmet might work too. That looks even more ridiculous... And would make you a target for jokes from pedestrians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girth Brooks Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 34 minutes ago, DanCar said: I've been looking at baseball catcher's helmets. Amazon link Suspect if remove the face wires will still have good face-plant protection. American football helmet might work too. Not sure what a prowess helmet is, but that might work. Here is a hockey helmet which looks the same as a baseball catcher's helmet. I can see the argument being made that these helmets would be good to use if nothing else is available because a helmet of some kind is better than none at all, but I can't see them being a viable safety option at any speed over 12mph. They are not designed to reduce the amount of energy produced on impact from wrecking a motorized vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebeaumarc Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 thank you for sharing this. I hope you'll recover quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 11 hours ago, maxkan said: I simply not ready to put that alien-looking bulky full face helmet on me. Also the speed is much less than on motorcycle so I dont think we need the level of protection of motorcycle helmet. Is there any lightweight not bulky full face alternatives? There are downhill/MTB/BMX helmets with a chin guard, some even removable like on my summer helmet Cratoni C-Maniac (400g). Although the chin guard on the affordable Cratoni has already saved my face once, it only works as scratch protection, not for high velocity impact. Paragliding helmets are light in weight, comparable to heavier bicycle helmets. I’m waiting for my Icaro Skyrunner (700g) to arrive, as I needed more wind shield during the cold. (The visor is optional.) TSG Pass (900-1000g) is a common full-face here at the forum, though a bit pricey for me. I understand it’s made mainly for longboarding. (Not my photo.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsiang Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 Here's the video, if you want to go straight to the crashy part it starts around the 7:20 mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footloose Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 hope you recover fast from this ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Damn, that was a sudden stop! I thought you may have slid at least a little bit before hitting the curb face first. I'm glad your more or less ok from this accident. I like watching your videos and hope you keep making them. Interested to see which full face you decide to go with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED209 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Looks like the Z10 has a mind of it's own... Not understanding why it happen would make me lose confidence. Good luck with your recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 I'd guess it has something to do with NineBot's disproportionate braking, that is, a small increase in braking force results in an unexpectedly large amount of braking force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yourtoys7 Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 sad to see/ hear this, but sometime that is the only way we learn, after my last/ major fall I did acquire full face....... just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Eisenman Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Seems like one of two events happened. During one of Marty's uphill rides on a Z10 it just quit (to self preserve the Z10's electronics from going over something like amps or temp?). In your video maybe it momentarily quit and then restarted while your body lost balance and control. The bane of motorized single wheel recoveries. Or: Did you possibly scrape a pedal with a twisting result? I think the partial cut out is more likely but it's just a guess based on Marty's uphill experience captured on video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gadgetfann Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 I have a bunch of helmets, but the white POC ski helmet is my helmet of choice for face plant protection since it offers open face design and an adjustable chin guard. I’m not really sure how effective it will be in the event of a real fall, but it gives me a little peace of mind. Sorry for my dark photo, but here’s a link to the helmet on POC’s site for a better view. https://www.pocsports.com/us/products/artic-sl-spin/10497.html?dwvar_10497_color=Hydrogen White&cgid=snow-helmets#start=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebeaumarc Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Could it be because of the regeneration braking ? I heard it only recharges a single block of batteries and the repetitive attempts to hard brake may have exceeded the battery capacity or electronics in the wheel. Anyway, lessons learned ... I'll be in search for a helmet with face protection and spread the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsiang Posted November 16, 2018 Author Share Posted November 16, 2018 14 hours ago, Bob Eisenman said: Seems like one of two events happened. During one of Marty's uphill rides on a Z10 it just quit (to self preserve the Z10's electronics from going over something like amps or temp?). In your video maybe it momentarily quit and then restarted while your body lost balance and control. The bane of motorized single wheel recoveries. Or: Did you possibly scrape a pedal with a twisting result? I think the partial cut out is more likely but it's just a guess based on Marty's uphill experience captured on video. The curve at the entry is actually quite gentle, it mostly look sharp due to perspective and camera angle, so I doubt that it had been a pedal scrap. Also, I was aiming for the center of the path, which is quite wide so was completely surprised to find myself all of a sudden on the side and hitting the curb. The partial cutout sounds like a potential candidate, do you have a link to that video? I think the sequence might be; cutout during the turn -> in my surprise I straighten up -> then the motor came back on and shot me straight towards the right side of the path ->the wheel hits the curb and flip while I was in a squatted position and then I trip and do a front flip into the curb. The ground was even and clear of leaves, I checked before hand since I knew this was a risky test. The speed was also not high since I was planning to do most of the acceleration during the straight portion of the path. Plus I rode over that same spot multiple times. So I think the most likely cuprit was unexpected wheel behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Eisenman Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 4 hours ago, Hsiang said: The partial cutout sounds like a potential candidate, do you have a link to that video? This is the video. There is a second video that might interest you as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUNCESMUSIC Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 If I'm crusing near the top speed and I get a gust of wind behind me, I will experience tilt back and the warning. Maybe a possible variable in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Cohen Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 I wear a full face dirt bike helmet when riding my 14D. People look at me like I'm stupid, but this helps reassure me. Sorry about your accident man, looks painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsiang Posted November 26, 2018 Author Share Posted November 26, 2018 11 hours ago, Brandon Cohen said: I wear a full face dirt bike helmet when riding my 14D. People look at me like I'm stupid, but this helps reassure me. Sorry about your accident man, looks painful. Better safe than sorry, plus I imagine that I look strange as is rolling around on an EUC anyhow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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