Flexmeter alternatives

[MonZon]

HI guys!

I can't find a place to buy Demon Flexmeters in my country. Do you know any other well-proven alternative with d3o? 

 

Actually, I can order Flexmeters directly from demonunited.com, but the shipping cost would be $30.

Edited November 1, 2018 by MonZon

[Rehab1]

Does Amazon have a distribution hub in your country? 

[MonZon]

Nope, although I can order from Amazon, still it would be expensive.

[Rehab1]

Try researching alternative wrist guards. Just look at the reviews before you buy.

[Unventor]

There are 2 models of these. One is from Demon an US company.

The other is a Dutch company. You should spot those searching on Flexmeter wrist guards. Prices are simular, but shipping might differ.

https://shop.cyes.nl/en/sport-protection-extreme-sports/snowboard-ski-protection/gloves-flexmeter-protectors-snowboarding/

The Dutch company have red print on them instead of Demon that have blue printed logos.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Unventor

[meepmeepmayer]

Ich bought mine here: https://wintersport-online-shop.de/handgelenkschuetzer-flexmeter-d3o

(Switch to English on top. Shop is in the Netherlands.)

Good shop, everything went quick and fine, they even wrote email to ask for hand measurements to check I ordered the right size (see size chart on Demon website).

Flexmeters are hard to find in Europe. The "doc something" are the same I believe, as they are originally from France.

You don't have to get the Flexmeters if they are too expensive. D3O isn't that important. Important is that hard plastic slide plate to cushion the first impact and prevent abrasion. You don't bend your wrist in a EUC accident so much, impact and abrasion are the bigger dangers. Especially impact that will transmit up to your shoulder. Longboarding protectors have that slide plate too, for example. The stronger and more feather-y it is, the better.

Edited November 2, 2018 by meepmeepmayer

[MonZon]

8 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

Try researching alternative wrist guards. Just look at the reviews before you buy.

That's what I'm trying to do here) 

8 hours ago, Unventor said:

The other is a Dutch company. You should spot those searching on Flexmeter wrist guards. Prices are simular, but shipping might differ.

Thanks for the hint, but they don't deliver to my country.

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Good shop, everything went quick and fine, they even wrote email to ask for hand measurements to check I ordered the right size (see size chart on Demon website).

Same here(

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

You don't have to get the Flexmeters if they are too expensive. D3O isn't that important.

That's right, any good alternative would do. But I really like the idea of having d3o in it. Afterall - the impact must be dissipated somehow.

 

I own Dainese Action elbow protection, which is pretty long, almost to the wrist. Wouldn't it interfere with wrist guard somehow?

I've found ProSurf Wrist Guards PS03 18 with d3o. It has just one plate, is it really necessary to have two?

Edited November 2, 2018 by MonZon

[meepmeepmayer]

Maybe we need to start an international Flexmeter smuggling ring Or maybe @EcoDrift should import a batch and sell them.

7 hours ago, MonZon said:

I own Dainese Action elbow protection, which is pretty long, almost to the wrist. Wouldn't it interfere with wrist guard somehow?

I don't think the Flexmeters would interfere with your elbow guards. The Flexmeters are <25cm long so they don't cover too much of your lower arm. Maybe 15cm or so from where the wrist bends.

7 hours ago, MonZon said:

I've found ProSurf Wrist Guards PS03 18 with d3o. It has just one plate, is it really necessary to have two?

Not sure what you mean with "two plates". You mean it covers both sides off the arm, underside and top?

--

What is important is impact protection. When your palm hits the ground, it needs to dampen the impact. So that's what the slide plate is for. First it bends and cushions the first impact. Then it slides forward so your arms are not pushed into your shoulder.

D3O really doesn't help for that. The best protection against hitting something is lot of thickness between you and what you hit. Like a car. If you hit something frontally, the motor etc get destroyed but the rider is fine. If something hits your car from the driver side, you will be hurt because there's nothing between you that can get compressed (only thin car door). D3O isn't thick, so it doesn't help much.

I would get wrist guards for skateboarding/longboarding. They are meant for hitting pavement at high speed. They have these U-shaped plastic slide plates/impact protectors. For example "Triple 8 Wrist Savers" (not expensive) or something similar. I think a good, impact-cushioning plastic piece is the most important in a wrist guard. D3O is maybe a nice extra, but no that important.

Many wrist guards are made to prevent bending the wrist and breaking it. With EUC riding, that is not a big danger. The impact softening is the important part.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Maybe we need to start an international Flexmeter smuggling ring Or maybe @EcoDrift should import a batch and sell them.

I don't think the Flexmeters would interfere with your elbow guards. The Flexmeters are <25cm long so they don't cover too much of your lower arm. Maybe 15cm or so from where the wrist bends.

Not sure what you mean with "two plates". You mean it covers both sides off the arm, underside and top?

--

What is important is impact protection. When your palm hits the ground, it needs to dampen the impact. So that's what the slide plate is for. First it bends and cushions the first impact. Then it slides forward so your arms are not pushed into your shoulder.

D3O really doesn't help for that. The best protection against hitting something is lot of thickness between you and what you hit. Like a car. If you hit something frontally, the motor etc get destroyed but the rider is fine. If something hits your car from the driver side, you will be hurt because there's nothing between you that can get compressed (only thin car door). D3O isn't thick, so it doesn't help much.

I would get wrist guards for skateboarding/longboarding. They are meant for hitting pavement at high speed. They have these U-shaped plastic slide plates/impact protectors. For example "Triple 8 Wrist Savers" (not expensive) or something similar. I think a good, impact-cushioning plastic piece is the most important in a wrist guard. D3O is maybe a nice extra, but no that important.

 

Many wrist guards are made to prevent bending the wrist and breaking it. With EUC riding, that is not a big danger. The impact softening is the important part.

I don't understand why you say that the D30 doesn't help. The Flexmeters have the U-shaped plastic slide plates.

Also, why exactly does a fall from an EUC not result in possible broken wrists? I'm curious.

[meepmeepmayer]

I'm not saying the D3O doesn't help. I just think it doesn't do very much. It's just stuff that gets hard under stress. It's essentially very advanced cushioning foam, the way it is utilized in a EUC crash. But that's it. It's still a thin layer. Multiple cm of D3O would be something different.

What counts for dampening impacts is a big crumple zone (the widely protruding u-shaped slide plate and then the cushioning foam inside the guards). Actually in doubt, I'd rather have your Triple 8 guards than the Flexmeters, because the triple 8 slide plate actually sticks out and can bend inwards, the Flexmeter one sits mostly flat on the guard.

Broken wrists seem to come from overextending/overbending the wrist. That happens more if you fall to the side (think snowboard) and hit the ground with your wrist already bent than the way you hit the ground in a EUC crash (superman forwards, wrists straight, mostly unbent). We've heard of so many shoulder injuries from the impact moving up the arm, can't recall a broken wrist from a reported crash.

Well, that's my theory at least, didn't test it, obviously. The Flexmeters are explicitly designed to move the force from your wrist up to your forearm and arm to protect the fragile wrist bones (meant for snowboarding). Hence their long form so they can bend at the wrist and your arm takes part of that force. That's nice for your wrists, but bad for the shoulder if you hit hard. A big crumple zone and sliding forwards instead of the ground pushing against you lowers the force of impact in the first place. My ideal "wrist" guards (really palm and shoulder guards for EUCs, with wrist protection a secondary purpose, because I think overextending the wrists is a secondary problem with EUCs) would literally have an inch thick crumple zone between the slide plate and the guard itself. Make it from D3O or just foam, I want thickness.

Edited November 2, 2018 by meepmeepmayer
spelling

[Marty Backe]

48 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I'm not saying the D3O doesn't help. I just think it doesn't do very much. It's just stuff that gets hard under stress. It's essentially very advanced cushioning foam, the way it is utilized in a EUC crash. But that's it. It's still a thin layer. Multiple cm of D3O would be something different.

What counts for dampening impacts is a big crumple zone (the widely protruding u-shaped slide plate and then the cushioning foam inside the guards). Actually in doubt, I'd rather have your Triple 8 guards than the Flexmeters, because the triple 8 slide plate actually sticks out and can bend inwards, the Flexmeter one sits mostly flat on the guard.

Broken wrists seem to come from overextending/overbending the wrist. That happens more if you fall to the side (think snowboard) and hit the ground with your wrist already bent than the way you hit the ground in a EUC crash (superman forwards, wrists straight, mostly unbent). We've heard of so many shoulder injuries from the impact moving up the arm, can't recall a broken wrist from a reported crash.

Well, that's my theory at least, didn't test it, obviously. The Flexmeters are explicitly designed to move the force from your wrist up to your forearm and arm to protect the fragile wrist bones (meant for snowboarding). Hence their long form so they can bend at the wrist and your arm takes part of that force. That's nice for your wrists, but bad for the shoulder if you hit hard. A big crumple zone and sliding forwards instead of the ground pushing against you lowers the force of impact in the first place. My ideal "wrist" guards (really palm and shoulder guards for EUCs, with wrist protection a secondary purpose, because I think overextending the wrists is a secondary problem with EUCs) would literally have an inch thick crumple zone between the slide plate and the guard itself. Make it from D3O or just foam, I want thickness.

It's all theory then.

Although I use the Triple-8's and Flexmeters, I love the comfort of the Flexmeters and sense of superior safety. Someone on the forum (can't remember who) did have a severe crash while wearing the Flexmeters and said they worked great.

Since I started wearing wrist guards religiously, well over a year ago, I have not had a fall to test their effectiveness. I'm in no hurry to do so - they are insurance that I hope to never use.

[Sergei Dubovsky]

Amazon does ship it to Russia. It's not super-cheap, thou. I would try Amazon.de, may be it's cheaper than shipping from US

[Darrell Wesh]

[Darrell Wesh]

3 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Actually meep, the Superman fall with arms outstretched is the MODEL fall that wrist guards aim to protect your wrists from. as you can see all the padding won’t do jack squat to protect from a sprained or broken wrist as it’s the sliding that a wrist guards creates that prevents wrist breaks. Impact cushioning is just a nice bonus 

Edited November 8, 2018 by Darrell Wesh

[Girth Brooks]

I just had my first spill on pavement. WheelLog shows I was at 21mph on my Z10 when it happened. My helmet, G-Form knee pads, and padded motorcycle jacket proved very helpful, but most of all my Triple 8 wrist guards really saved the day. Will never ride without wrist guards. They are an absolute must have item for EUC riders. Only thing that really hurt was me snagging one of my fingernails and pulling it up off my finger... OUCH!!!! I've read several times on here the moment you first start to get comfortable on your wheel is the moment you'll soon eat shit. HAHAHAHA!! Very true indeed!

[RayRay]

Aside from the fingernail thing (owww!), it looks like the Triple8 Wristsaver II really did its job. 

This is comforting considering many of us (myself included) use the same wrist guard and wonder if it's protective enough. 

I sometimes wear loose fitting gloves over my Wristsavers for added protection (and warmth). So far, my worse injury was a cut on my finger (no glove that time).

 

Edited November 9, 2018 by RayRay
At least your okay

[Marty Backe]

6 hours ago, Girth Brooks said:

I just had my first spill on pavement. WheelLog shows I was at 21mph on my Z10 when it happened. My helmet, G-Form knee pads, and padded motorcycle jacket proved very helpful, but most of all my Triple 8 wrist guards really saved the day. Will never ride without wrist guards. They are an absolute must have item for EUC riders. Only thing that really hurt was me snagging one of my fingernails and pulling it up off my finger... OUCH!!!! I've read several times on here the moment you first start to get comfortable on your wheel is the moment you'll soon eat shit. HAHAHAHA!! Very true indeed!

Thanks for the report. Always great to get real-world feedback that something works. Wrist guards are the one piece of safety gear that I'll never ride without. And I have multiple pair in different locations so that I never have an excuse. The Triple-8's are my most often worn pair for when riding around town.

So exactly happened to cause the fall? Did the Z10 survive mostly?

[Alex_from_NZ]

On 11/8/2018 at 4:01 PM, Darrell Wesh said:

This is super interesting, and not an angle i had thought about in terms of how wrist guards work.  Its handy to know as i imagine it will in some way alter how i take a spill and react to it as well.  Thanks for sharing.

1 hour ago, RayRay said:

I sometimes wear loose fitting gloves over my Wristsavers for added protection (and warmth). So far, my worse injury was a cut on my finger (no glove that time).

 

 

Considering the above, i wonder if gloves overtop would stop some of the slide and cause an injury?

49 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

So exactly happened to cause the fall? Did the Z10 survive mostly?

 

Also very interested to know, am awaiting my delivery of both z10 and flexmeters atm  

[Dingfelder]

I used to wear hillbilly wrist guards, and would advise against anything that similarly has a big protruding piece on the wrist.  They make it all but impossible to come to rest against a surface with a flat hand or in any way gently ... instead, every lean or small impact is a whack on the protruding plastic, or metal.  This either damages the surface you are contacting or makes it very difficult to do anything with.  For instance, grab.

I found myself very leery of catching myself in even minor falls, as it would mean a ding or scratch in many things I touched.  

Maybe worse is that meant I started instinctively trying to catch myself on my fingers and especially my thumb ... both extended slightly backward and at any rate not meant to catch a falling body.  It didn't take long for that to create a lot of pain and stiffness in my thumb joint that a year later still didn't go away.  And ... even after I no longer wore those wrist guards, I had developed the habit of catching myself on thumb and fingers and could not seem to stop doing it anytime I leaned on something or steadied myself.  That would bring back the old ache, and of course is not at all what you want to program your body to do.  Your fingers and thumbs just aren't made to catch your body weight!

Now I use the Demon wristguards and they feel far more natural. I can grip things and no longer reinforce bad habits -- I catch myself and lean on my palms, the way a non-dummy should.  

Which is not to say that stopping a fall with outstretched hands/arms is such a bright idea in the first place. I try to roll out of falls or land on my side whenever possible, because it's not just fingers and thumbs that are likely to break if you try to break a fall with them, but also wrists, and even elbows and shoulders.

Anyway, that's all to say that a piece of protective equipment that puts a body part at an unnatural angle may not be a good idea ... and may lead to compensations that become bad habits that are very hard to break.

[Darrell Wesh]

1 hour ago, Alex_from_NZ said:

This is super interesting, and not an angle i had thought about in terms of how wrist guards work.  Its handy to know as i imagine it will in some way alter how i take a spill and react to it as well.  Thanks for sharing.

Considering the above, i wonder if gloves overtop would stop some of the slide and cause an injury?

I imagine after sliding with wrist guards onto your side you initiate a roll. 

I have heard that gloves aren’t good in place of wrist guards because they will “stick” and you’re more likely to sprain your wrist. 

 

[Girth Brooks]

14 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

So exactly happened to cause the fall? Did the Z10 survive mostly?

It happened because I was being dumb. I got comfortable and took my eyes off my path briefly and hit a speed bump that had recently been installed on the sidewalk here in Nashville to slow electric scooter use. I was look much further ahead at people on the sidewalk to judge if I needed to slow before I got to them. I never saw it coming. I was moving on pretty quick and then boom. It was a good scare for sure! My Z10 did survive. I was on my hour lunch at work when this happened. I gathered myself after a few minutes and rode it back. I got a nasty road rash on the trolley handle and it took what looks to be the hardest hit. It will not pull out or retract easily like it did before the crash. I have to pull/push harder on it now.

[meepmeepmayer]

14 hours ago, Dingfelder said:

I used to wear hillbilly wrist guards, and would advise against anything that similarly has a big protruding piece on the wrist.  They make it all but impossible to come to rest against a surface with a flat hand or in any way gently ... instead, every lean or small impact is a whack on the protruding plastic, or metal.

That's a really good point. There can be too much of a protrusion and then it will impede sliding.

I guess the Flexmeters are officially the best then

[Marty Backe]

4 hours ago, Girth Brooks said:

It happened because I was being dumb. I got comfortable and took my eyes off my path briefly and hit a speed bump that had recently been installed on the sidewalk here in Nashville to slow electric scooter use. I was look much further ahead at people on the sidewalk to judge if I needed to slow before I got to them. I never saw it coming. I was moving on pretty quick and then boom. It was a good scare for sure! My Z10 did survive. I was on my hour lunch at work when this happened. I gathered myself after a few minutes and rode it back. I got a nasty road rash on the trolley handle and it took what looks to be the hardest hit. It will not pull out or retract easily like it did before the crash. I have to pull/push harder on it now.

Speed bumps are nasty. One of my most spectacular falls was also due to a speed bump that I had forgotten was there. So like you, I had not even slowed down when I hit it - talk about a rude awakening. I did a superman to the ground. I think what saved me was the speed bump was on a uphill ramp, so the vertical fall was somewhat limited. This was before I wore wristguards 

Take the trolley handle off and inspect it. You'll discover where it's bent and hopefully you can untwist it a bit. I had to do this with my first Z10 after a bad fall, and it worked great afterwards.

[Girth Brooks]

5 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Take the trolley handle off and inspect it. You'll discover where it's bent and hopefully you can untwist it a bit. I had to do this with my first Z10 after a bad fall, and it worked great afterwards.

I will do that tomorrow morning and see if I can do the same with mine. Thanks for the heads up.

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Take the trolley handle off and inspect it. You'll discover where it's bent and hopefully you can untwist it a bit. I had to do this with my first Z10 after a bad fall, and it worked great afterwards.

Oh you got a spare Z10? Or as at least 2 since it implies there is a second. 

I didn't think you could fall due to how you look riding in your vids. Somehow you look like a cat stepped of the EUC and almost always landing on your feet.