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Seba

Komoot - trip planning, navigation & recording

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For me, EUC is not only a way for everyday commuting, but also for a longer sightseeing trips. Trips of hundred kilometers a day are not rare for me, and despite the autumn weather, I still like to go for longer trips to the countryside. Although I learned to ride on very different types of surfaces, including difficult terrain, I prefer roads free of sand and mud. The problem is that when planning a trip to new, unfamiliar areas, I never know what type of surface I will hit. So far, I planned my trips using Google Maps and OpenStreetMaps, and while riding I used the OsmAnd application. Unfortunately, it often happened to me that somewhere in the road I went down the asphalt road into a muddy forest road... 


So I started to look for another solution that would allow me to plan the route with regard to the type of surface and finally I found Komoot - https://komoot.com. It is a website and an application that allows you to plan routes for cyclists and hikers taking into account the type of surface (but not only) and elevation profile. After planning a route, you can use the Komoot application (iOS/Android), which acts as a navigation and as a route recorder. What is important, after planning & downloading a route, navigation app can work offline without a GSM connection. If anyone of you was looking for a similar solution, it is worth testing on your own. My first tests confirmed that Komoot with "Road cycling" profile may be very useful in EUC route planning. Mobile application is also very helpful, and you can use the app without unlocking whole phone, by just pressing power button when navigation is active. It also works with many smartwatches (route guidance, current speed etc.), however I didn't tested it. I'm very curious about your opinions and reviews. Komoot in it's full flavour is a paid service, but at one-time payment of 29.99 EUR the price is very reasonable. Of course you can try it for free with one region.

Edited by Seba
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...and who's willing to wait until spring can possibly get the full package for just €19.99. In the last years the manufacturer granted this discount at the beginning of the bicycle season - presumingly at the last week of March. 

Regards, Borg

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@Seba I just tried it out, and it works great, and  pretty much offers the whole package (offline maps for my region were free too). Until now I've been using Strava for route recording (when I know where I'm going or am just leisure riding), and Google Maps + Wikiloc for route planning & recording: If I wanted to go to the supermarket taking only small residential roads to avoid main roads, I'd plan the route with Gmaps and then run wikiloc in recording mode, so it would record the route and I could use its navigation function the next time without having to use Gmaps. The downside of this system was that Gmaps is a hassle when navigating: you have to add a ton of waypoints, and every time you reach one you have to unlock your phone and tell it that you want to continue. Adn while wikiloc does offer navigation (if you pay the 4.99€ yearly subscription), there's no audio navigation.

It's great to be able to do everything from the same app, as well as choosing the profile (elevation, type of roads, etc.). Being able to see the route by just hitting the power button is extremely useful, and there's a fantastic route-planning option where you can just select a pre-planned or pre-recorded route and reverse the order (it was very useful for getting back home after shopping :efee612b4b:). I've also found the average and max. speeds to be much more precise than in Strava (which was giving me max. speeds of up to 58 km/h on my V8 :efee612b4b:).

The only drawbacks I've found so far are the inability to change maps (it only uses OpenStreetMaps; in Strava it's only Google, but you can choose "normal", terrain or satellite), and the elevation info is fairly off. All the same, great app, it will definitely be staying on my phone and will surely come in handy! Thanks for sharing!

Edited by travsformation
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Posted (edited)

@Seba You were the one who turned me on to Komoot some time back. Since that time I have mostly toyed with it planning cross country fantasy rides that, who knows, I might actually one day take. I do use it to plan local routes if it contains a destination that I have not previously used an EUC to access. 

Since I know my area very well, and I rarely venture too far off the beaten paths, most of my rides are 30 to 40 mile runs in mostly familiar, but challenging and always unpredictable urban conditions.

The closest I come to riding in a rural environment are the miles of paved bike trails and hiking trails that connect the Forrested parks throughout the Washington DC Metropolitan Area (DMV). They provide an excellent escape from the madness of the streets. 

The good news is that playing around with Komoot has somewhat familiarized me with its features. I often allow it to plan routes with which I am already familiar without my interference just to determine how it thinks. If necessary, I will then correct Komoot; customizing to the route I want to take.

Doing this I have found that on some urban routes, Komoot seems to more often have greater success thinking like me when I plan the route as a walking route; for me, cycling routes tend to require more custom adjustments to add known shortcuts, while the walking plan automatically finds those shortcuts that are suitable for EUCs. For example,  the bike setting consistently avoids some pedestrian tunnels I often use on my ride. However when I switch to walking the app finds those tunnels.

This is relevant because we are neither bikes nor pedestrians. Rather, as EUC riders we are a bit of both as necessary when we travel; especially if you ride a lot in congested urban conditions like me.

My habit now is to plan the same route twice; once as a bike route, and once as a pedestrian to compare them. I then take note of any differences and plan the route based on the difference that I prefer. 

Edited by Lutalo
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I will ask Komoot developers for some improvements and new features. At least they would allow to define "custom" routing options. This is the only feature I really miss: to explicitly define what types of roads/surfaces should be used and in which order. So you can save it as named personal preference and use in future.

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22 minutes ago, Seba said:

I will ask Komoot developers for some improvements and new features. At least they would allow to define "custom" routing options. This is the only feature I really miss: to explicitly define what types of roads/surfaces should be used and in which order. So you can save it as named personal preference and use in future.

I haven't seen a satellite mapping feature like Google's. Zoom-in, and street level features in satellite mode would provide excellent intelligence about environment and terrain features, before taking a route. A Waze-like route intelligence feature that adds to the body of knowledge about unique route features and hazards. For example,  intelligence regarding paved surface conditions that is user reported so that known routes stay updated at no cost Komoot. Unknown routes will become known routes over time as the user base populates. The feature would tell us which paved surfaces are rough or smooth and provide pothole location reports.

When the pothole is repaired the user will note with a pothole repaired report in the form of a simple icon that makes the pothole disappear off the Komoot map. Although I don't do a bunch of riding over off-road surfaces, I imagine that the reports would be very useful to riders that do venture off the beaten path. 

Edited by Lutalo
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Google Maps are available when planning trip in web browser - just select small button in the upper right corner of the Komoot map:

komoot_maps.thumb.jpg.dca4689abe917c2ae57be7b5c9fa9571.jpg

HINT - press "M" to temporarily hide your track to see map objects behind. This is especially useful when working with aerial Google Map.

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32 minutes ago, Seba said:

Google Maps are available when planning trip in web browser - just select small button in the upper right corner of the Komoot map:

komoot_maps.thumb.jpg.dca4689abe917c2ae57be7b5c9fa9571.jpg

HINT - press "M" to temporarily hide your track to see map objects behind. This is especially useful when working with aerial Google Map.

Thanks, dude. Now for the Waze features. Since Google now owns Waze it should be an easy play for Komoot. 

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20 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

Thanks, dude. Now for the Waze features. Since Google now owns Waze it should be an easy play for Komoot. 

I'm afraid Komoot won't be able to use Waze, because they only rely on OpenStreetMap data for route planning. Google Maps is used just for visualization. However, they could implement Waze-like features by themselves. Sadly, I've searched their "ideas database" and it seems they are not too keen to introduce new ideas :(

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@Seba by the way, that google satellite feature must be PC-only. I couldn't find it on my mobile app :)

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Just now, Lutalo said:

@Seba by the way, that google satellite feature must be PC-only. I couldn't find it on my mobile app :)

It only works when accessing the Komoot website from your web browser. I plan my routes on my computer, ahead of time (much easier than on the phone), but tt would definitely be a great addition to the mobile app in terms of route planning on-the-go

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2 hours ago, Seba said:

I'm afraid Komoot won't be able to use Waze, because they only rely on OpenStreetMap data for route planning. Google Maps is used just for visualization. However, they could implement Waze-like features by themselves. Sadly, I've searched their "ideas database" and it seems they are not too keen to introduce new ideas :(

Be nice if they could just use Waze because implementing Waze-like features in-house will obviously require time and resources that adapting an already existing platform wouldn't.

Hey. but, it is what it is. It's a great tool that I just used to plan a group ride. I actually get a sort of kick out of going to war with the route customization features 😉👍

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4 minutes ago, travsformation said:

It only works when accessing the Komoot website from your web browser. I plan my routes on my computer, ahead of time (much easier than on the phone), but tt would definitely be a great addition to the mobile app in terms of route planning on-the-go

I would love that feature on the mobile app. I would also like to see a downloadable, and shareable in-app bird's-eye route map screen shot function. Or, is that already a PC/webview only function too :D:D:D

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23 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

I would love that feature on the mobile app. I would also like to see a downloadable, and shareable in-app bird's-eye route map screen shot function. Or, is that already a PC/webview only function too :D:D:D

There is a very nice way to create bird's eye view of a route planned with Komoot :) In fact you can visualize any route planned/recorded. And results can be much, much better than Relive. You just need Google Earth. I've even planned to make a "how to" tutorial, just give me some time B) 

You can just review your planned route or make a video like the one below. It's a 7th day of my trip across Poland, planned with Komoot and visualized with Google Earth. Overlay and final editing made with Adobe Premiere.

 

Edited by Seba

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25 minutes ago, Seba said:

There is a very nice way to create bird's eye view of a route planned with Komoot :) In fact you can visualize any route planned/recorded. And results can be much, much better than Relive. You just need Google Earth. I've even planned to make a "how to" tutorial, just give me some time B) 

You can just review your planned route or make a video like the one below. It's a 7th day of my trip across Poland, planned with Komoot and visualized with Google Earth. Overlay and final editing made with Adobe Premiere.

 

Figures. I am too addicted to my mobile :D

Edited by Lutalo
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Just now, Seba said:

There is a very nice way to create bird's eye view of a route planned with Komoot :) In fact you can visualize any route planned/recorded. And results can be much, much better than Relive. You just need Google Earth. I've even planned to make a "how to" tutorial, just give me some time B) 

You can just review your planned route or make a video like the one below. It's a 7th day of my trip across Poland, planned with Komoot and visualized with Google Earth. Overlay and final editing made with Adobe Premiere.

  

Wow, that looks awesome! I've been editing all my Relives with Premiere, playing with the zoom (keyframe-based), changing the soundtrack, etc., but it still doesn't look anywhere near as good as this! Great video!

Am guessing you exported the .gpx and imported it to Google Earth? Have never tried to "relive" a route in G.Earth, but will look into it, love the results you got! (and Relive's options are fairly limited, especially if you consider the suscription price of the premium plan...more than Netflix!). Can you play with zoom (or rather altitude) and camera angle in "real-time", as you record? Thought I'd try to go to bed early today, but it looks like I've found a new excuse (aka obsession) to stay up late :efee612b4b: (haven't done any screen recording since my gaming days with FRAPS on Windows XP :efee612b4b:)

Will be looking forward to your tutorial! Even if I figure it out myself, I'm sure there'll be a lot to learn from it! You've got a new subscriber! (And damn whoever gave your video a f*cking downvote!)

 

Quote

" Figures. I am too addicted to my mobile "

@Lutalo  :efee612b4b:

Edited by travsformation

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@Seba I've managed to successfully import gpx files from Komoot and Strava into G. Earth, and replay the trip. Now I'm playing around with the settings to get the speed, camera tilt and camera range to my liking. :D The only thing I can't seem to get right is the camera range; no matter how many tims I change it, when I replay the trip, the value remains unchanged. Odd...

Will be looking forward to your tutorial! :thumbup:

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