KS-18L and KS-18XL rapid charging

[Marty Backe]

15 hours ago, Nic said:

Cell balancing is extremely important, particularly if you fully charge and discharge your battery pack. If your cells are not balanced this can lead to overcharging and over-discharging of some cells which in turn causes further degradation. This is why battery packs include a BMS and temperature sensor so as to avoid fire. The best thing you can do to avoid problems is to stop charging once 90% charge is reached and don't run your pack down below 10% charge. This gives you a safety margin of 10% capacity for unbalanced cells. Never leave lithium batteries charging unattended. Yes, its unlikely that you will have a fire, but its not worth the risk.

For over 2-years I've been charging all of my wheels to 100-percent, generally overnight, and often I won't get around to unplugging the charger for a day or two. I've never had an issue. My oldest wheel, a Monster, sometimes sits for over a month at 100-percent charge. I'm still getting the same range out of it that I did when it was new.

Anecdotal I know.

I think people spend too much time worrying about the batteries.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Marty Backe

[Nic]

 

[eddiemoy]

32 minutes ago, Nic said:

 

I'm not sure what they are trying to show here except to put fear around lithium ion batteries.  it makes for an interesting video.  statistically, these are so much safer than gasoline.  they also have a much lower energy density than gasoline.  so what does that mean?  means that if you have the same volume of gasoline and take away the safeguards, you would see a much bigger explosion.

17 cars catch fire every hour in the USA.  i don't hear many battery fires.  have you seen the videos of people filling up their car and the car catches on fire?  

[US69]

12 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I think people spend to much time worrying about the batteries.

On Point....

[US69]

13 hours ago, Nic said:

Cell balancing is extremely important, particularly if you fully charge and discharge your battery pack. If your cells are not balanced this can lead to overcharging and over-discharging of some cells which in turn causes further degradation. This is why battery packs include a BMS and temperature sensor so as to avoid fire. The best thing you can do to avoid problems is to stop charging once 90% charge is reached and don't run your pack down below 10% charge. This gives you a safety margin of 10% capacity for unbalanced cells. Never leave lithium batteries charging unattended. Yes, its unlikely that you will have a fire, but its not worth the risk.

 

Thats exactly why we have a BMS with our batteries. These BMSs check for overcharging, undercharging and they do the balancing and what not safety measures.

And yes, balancing is important.....but your BMS does balancing only when it is charging from About  97%-100%. So i dont see the Point in charging only to 90%! It is in contrary not good for balancing, only for longer cell life. Yes, charging only to 80/90 percent doubles longevity of the cells. But at least all 10/20 charges you should charge to 100% as only then your cells will get balanced by the BMS.

And btw a unbalanced cell can not lead to over or undercharge in Operation (and so fire) in General. The highest and weakest cell in a complet pack always triggers the safety mechanisms of over and undercharging when in Operation.....

[Nic]

27 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I'm not sure what they are trying to show here except to put fear around lithium ion batteries.  it makes for an interesting video.  statistically, these are so much safer than gasoline.  they also have a much lower energy density than gasoline.  so what does that mean?  means that if you have the same volume of gasoline and take away the safeguards, you would see a much bigger explosion.

17 cars catch fire every hour in the USA.  i don't hear many battery fires.  have you seen the videos of people filling up their car and the car catches on fire?  

Yes, but you don't keep gasoline in your house, so a gasoline fire is a lower risk. Manufacturers of EUCs are all using highest quality branded cells for safety reasons as low quality cells were prone to catching fire. The risk is still there its just very small.

[Nic]

6 minutes ago, US69 said:

The highest and weakest cell in a complet pack always triggers the safety mechanisms of over and undercharging when in Operation.....

That's what I'm hoping would happen ... at least on quality products.

[eddiemoy]

2 hours ago, Nic said:

Yes, but you don't keep gasoline in your house, so a gasoline fire is a lower risk. Manufacturers of EUCs are all using highest quality branded cells for safety reasons as low quality cells were prone to catching fire. The risk is still there its just very small.

I would say the risk is higher with driving a car and it exploding.  lol.  when you crash in a car, you don't really get a chance to run away.  fire in your house you can still get away out the window.  not a bang and dead engulfed in flames.

[Lutalo]

23 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

For over 2-years I've been charging all of my wheels to 100-percent, generally overnight, and often I won't get around to unplugging the charger for a day or two. I've never had an issue. My oldest wheel, a Monster, sometimes sits for over a month at 100-percent charge. I'm still getting the same range out of it that I did when it was new.

Anecdotal I know.

I think people spend too much time worrying about the batteries.

Hear, hear. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Lutalo

[Seba]

On 11/14/2018 at 1:50 AM, Nic said:

Cell balancing is extremely important, particularly if you fully charge and discharge your battery pack. If your cells are not balanced this can lead to overcharging and over-discharging of some cells which in turn causes further degradation. This is why battery packs include a BMS and temperature sensor so as to avoid fire. The best thing you can do to avoid problems is to stop charging once 90% charge is reached and don't run your pack down below 10% charge.

You are right that cell balancing is important. But if each time your charger will terminate charging at 90 %, your battery won't get balanced as BMS will never enter balancing stage. BMS used in EUC battery packs are of bleeding type - they only discharge cells that are going over 4.2 V. So if your EUC uses balancing BMS, one cycle for every ten (or even less as your pack ages) should be made by fully charging with a standard charger.

[Seba]

On 11/14/2018 at 2:14 AM, Marty Backe said:

I think people spend too much time worrying about the batteries.

...or trying to extend battery life do stupid things, that in fact reduce battery life

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

Just came across these adapters so that 18L 18XL users can use Gotway rapid chargers easily  
It seems like @1RadWerkstatt is selling them (he uploaded these pictures)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/permalink/1902437293187558/

Edited November 22, 2018 by Jean Dublin

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

On 11/13/2018 at 7:29 PM, US69 said:

But again: The only reason i see for such high charges as 10Amp and higher is when you ride a 2400wh Monster and do a 1000mile trip like Speedyfeet...Thats the only reason i see why such a high charge current was actually needed. To keep on with the journey! But for daily purpose? I doubt it :-)

Another reason I see would be for someone who works making small deliveries, like leaflets or fast food, I don't think they would want to wait +4h before doing the 2nd round of the day.

[Siggy]

@Jean Dublin good find mate! Wonder if Chris has more kinds of adapters

 

Side note: would a DC to Lenovo set up be viable - or is this way too complicated ?

 

I'm thinking how best to build a fast charger set up - my concern is the polarity adjustments 

f.ex

 

+

 

 

@Seba

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Siggy

[HalfGlass]

How to buy these Gotway2kingsong dongles? Really curious to have them in my car for a faster charging purposes. 

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

On 12/1/2018 at 1:25 AM, HalfGlass said:

How to buy these Gotway2kingsong dongles? Really curious to have them in my car for a faster charging purposes. 

I don't know, I tried to contact @1RadWerkstatt a few times and didn't get a reply.

[Chriull]

36 minutes ago, Jean Dublin said:

I don't know, I tried to contact @1RadWerkstatt a few times and didn't get a reply.

They are not really active in the forum (last visit august 2017...)

Or did you try it per email/contact form on www.1radwerkstatt.de?

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

Just now, Chriull said:

They are not really active in the forum (last visit august 2017...)

Or did you try it per email/contact form on www.1radwerkstatt.de?

Thanks, I tried Facebook message and their email (which the put on the Facebook post of the image of the adapters). It's been over a week.

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

I asked YZPower on AliExpress if they could use the Lenovo connector on their 4.5A / 5A chargers (~50Eur shipping included) they told me yes, that I could order.

I ordered and then they told me the Lenovo connector can't stand the Voltage/Current.

Now I'm asking if 3A would be OK, let's see...

I think it may just be that they don't want to bother to buy the connector if they don't have it in stock.

[eddiemoy]

18 minutes ago, Jean Dublin said:

I asked YZPower on AliExpress if they could use the Lenovo connector on their 4.5A / 5A chargers (~50Eur shipping included) they told me yes, that I could order.

I ordered and then they told me the Lenovo connector can't stand the Voltage/Current.

Now I'm asking if 3A would be OK, let's see...

I think it may just be that they don't want to bother to buy the connector if they don't have it in stock.

The Lenovo connector is capable of 11.5A.  Here is the Wiki - http://bit.ly/2RbfLHd

Here is Lenovo's own power brick that is 230W at 20V output and 11.5Amps.  - https://amzn.to/2T9PKVS

If you already have a 84V fast charger, you can get just the plug - Jason sells the plug for the 84V fast charger to Levono connector - http://bit.ly/2SGPKgN

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

Thanks for that @eddiemoy 

About eWheel, great for US, but I'm in Europe.

1Rad Werkstatt from Germany has adapter cables to use Gotway fast chargers on 18L/XL, but unfortunately he never replied to my emails or Facebook messages and he didn't list that product on his site.

I'll see if YZPower finally can do it or not, what you shared may help with that 

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

11 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

The Lenovo connector is capable of 11.5A.  Here is the Wiki - http://bit.ly/2RbfLHd

Just used an online calculator for Watt, Amps, Volts and saw that 11.5A, 230W, 20V is not that high, if using 84V and 230W it is 2.73A.

I know some people are using the connector for more current that that.

Also KingSong Poland is selling 300W 84V 3A Fast chargers https://eunicycles.eu/en/chargers/84-fast-charger-300w-84v-for-ks-18l.html

So not sure what's going on with the connector.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Jean Dublin

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

Does anyone know if this would work?

DC Power Adapter 5.5x2.1mm Female to Square Plug for lenovo ThinkPad
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cT5gAsaG

YZPOWER 84V 5A Lithium Battery Charger (choosing 5.5x2.1mm plug option)
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/xR273RE

 

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Jean Dublin

[Seba]

1 minute ago, Jean Dublin said:

Does anyone know if this would work?

DC Power Adapter 5.5x2.1mm Female to Square Plug for lenovo ThinkPad
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cT5gAsaG

YZPOWER 84V 5A Lithium Battery Charger (choosing 5.5x2.2mm plug option)
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/xR273RE

 

 

Don't go that way. Just buy cable like this one - https://allegro.pl/kabel-zasilacza-lenovo-prostokat-11-4-5-mm-z-pinem-i6267063205.html - and replace cables yourself

[Seba]

On 11/14/2018 at 1:56 PM, Nic said:

 

They are simply overcharging this cell well over it's rated full charge voltage with current well over it's max charging current. Something your charger nor BMS won't simply allow. Period. Did you know that charging lead acid batteries may lead to hydrogen explosion which may have more tragic consequences?

PS. Please note that the only cell that got in flames was pouch type, so-called "LiPoly". Cylindrical cell just popped out and safely vented (and this is behaviour intended by design).