Anyone wear Adidas Ultra Boost 3.0 or 4.0 for riding your EUC ?

[Darrell Wesh]

4 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

You want to get a wide stance, feet almost hanging off the side of the pedals, and you want to flare your knees outward, away from gripping the wheel. On paper it would seem that any bump would more easily throw you off the wheel since you’re standing on the pedals at the very edge. But this wide stance lowers the center of gravity better and as a result increases balance and stability. 

To clarify: optimal suspension is achieved by hip hinging. Notice the instructions to flare the knees out wide, which on an euc is made easier if you stand wide as well. 

This type of suspension, given you have adequate leg strength, is bulletproof to rough terrain. I can go over anything, at insane speeds and still stay on the pedals. The lower you can go (the lower your center of gravity) the more strength required but the more stability you gain. I of course can get extremely low (much lower than the photo), but the drawback is the enormous amount of strength required and endurance. You will not be able to hold a very low posture for long, and your fading endurance will cause the wheel to wobble. 

The problem as I said with this stance is the strength and endurance required, no one is expected to stay hinged like that the whole ride. I quickly transition in and out of it when going over potholes and hitting bumps and stay in that low posture when going over rough grass/off road as I don’t like to bounce around. 

Edit: you can see the difference between a squat (on the left) vs a hip hinge(on the right). The hip hinge she is demonstrating on the right side is how low I am when navigating over rough terrain very fast when I absolutely want to stay on the pedals. Of course my head is looking up and not down! 

The only person I’ve seen utilize such a low hinged posture is chooch tech. And that guy can ride over anything full send.

The deep squat demonstrated on the left side is not a posture you use for EUC riding. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by Darrell Wesh

[Darrell Wesh]

18 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

I politely disagree. I treat patients daily where their feet are in pronation during stance phase. Sometimes it is attributed to a tight achilles tendon where the range of motion is less that 90 degrees but in other cases the patient just has stronger evertors where the foot is collapsed.  I see similar patients for supination.

How do you disagree? You can’t lol. The definition is the definition. Do you disagree with the definition?

Pronation is natural anyways. Rigid Shoes with motion control that try to force you to remain neutral are not giving you the best stability because it’s not letting your body do what it wants. 

Minimalist shoes are very flexible on the other hand. If you need to stand everted or inverted on one side of the foot to maintain balance you can do that. I normally put more pressure externally on my feet, something cushioned, rigid shoes give me trouble doing (as they want to force me to remain neutral instead of flexing to the side)

Edited May 30, 2019 by Darrell Wesh

[Rehab1]

25 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

How do you disagree? You can’t lol. The definition is the definition. Do you disagree with the definition?

Pronation is natural anyways. Rigid Shoes with motion control that try to force you to remain neutral are not giving you the best stability because it’s not letting your body do what it wants. 

Minimalist shoes are very flexible on the other hand. If you need to stand everted or inverted on one side of the foot to maintain balance you can do that. I normally put more pressure externally on my feet, something cushioned, rigid shoes give me trouble doing (as they want to force me to remain neutral instead of flexing to the side)

Thanks for your professional LOL comment. I have a degree in biomechanics and attend Vicon 3D gait analysis labs to analyze my patient's data.

Sorry if I may have misinterpreted your phraseology. Pronation/supination is a natural movement of the foot that occurs during weight bearing when the  foot makes contract with a solid surface producing the malaligned forces. I believe we are on the same page.

[LucasD]

3 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

The stabil X are certainty not flat. They have a built up heel like most athletic shoes which acts the same as woman’s heels and place your spine in an unnatural posture as well as anteriorly tilting your pelvis(forward). Built up heels shorten your calves and Achilles’ tendon, fatiguing them quicker when standing as you’re loading them more. 

You are incorrect about pronation. Pronating and supinating happen during the locomotive gait- walking or running. You can remain neutral while standing. Literally the definition is “Pronation is a natural motion of your foot during walking and running.” Not while standing. 

Stabil X are squash shoes so they are quite flat. You can try it yourself in shop, one photo they may look they are not. It is the same with skiing shoes, that need to transfer lateral movement a lot. In EUC this transfer is also super important. Vivobarefoot most likely are more flat, but their transfer of lateral movement is most likely much lower than stabil x.

BTW pronation correction is super important in skiing 

http://www.effectiveskiing.com/Topic/Inversion_and_eversion

[Darrell Wesh]

1 hour ago, LucasD said:

Stabil X are squash shoes so they are quite flat. You can try it yourself in shop, one photo they may look they are not. It is the same with skiing shoes, that need to transfer lateral movement a lot. In EUC this transfer is also super important. Vivobarefoot most likely are more flat, but their transfer of lateral movement is most likely much lower than stabil x.

BTW pronation correction is super important in skiing 

http://www.effectiveskiing.com/Topic/Inversion_and_eversion

So you’re agreeing with me. The very first paragraph of your link admits boots restrict this inversion and eversion, but that it’s very important to do to have more control. Another validation for minimalist shoes with their flexible structure. 

Btw that video is exactly what I do to get better control when I ride EUC’s (foot tipping so they call it)

Edited May 30, 2019 by Darrell Wesh

[LucasD]

10 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

So you’re agreeing with me. The very first paragraph of your link admits boots restrict this inversion and eversion, but that it’s very important to do to have more control. Another validation for minimalist shoes with their flexible structure. 

Btw that video is exactly what I do to get better control when I ride EUC’s (foot tipping so they call it)

Yes I agree that normal shoes are not particularly good. We want something flat with good support of lateral movement. Insoles may be recommended depndinng on person

Inversion and eversion refer to movements that tilt the sole of the foot away from (eversion) or towards (inversion) the midline of the body.Wikipedia

This makes a difference when selecting the right language to describe what the skier should do and feedback: the actual movement that the skier should do is eversion. Over or under pronation are best addressed with a custom footbed design."

In ski it shoes are bonded to ski, in EUC it is not a case. Otherwise the tipping movement and body positions for carving is similar. One difference though in skis in given movement I would go right, here I go left At least if I try to use phantom move from skiing. It is mostly due to the fact that releasing weight make the wheel tip rapidly...

[Darrell Wesh]

23 minutes ago, LucasD said:

Yes I agree that normal shoes are not particularly good. We want something flat with good support of lateral movement. Insoles may be recommended depndinng on person

Inversion and eversion refer to movements that tilt the sole of the foot away from (eversion) or towards (inversion) the midline of the body.Wikipedia

This makes a difference when selecting the right language to describe what the skier should do and feedback: the actual movement that the skier should do is eversion. Over or under pronation are best addressed with a custom footbed design."

In ski it shoes are bonded to ski, in EUC it is not a case. Otherwise the tipping movement and body positions for carving is similar. One difference though in skis in given movement I would go right, here I go left At least if I try to use phantom move from skiing. It is mostly due to the fact that releasing weight make the wheel tip rapidly...

You think for you it was harder to learn based on this opposite steering? I had to unlearn my Segway minipro steering to learn the EUC, the steering leans were opposite. I could free mount and ride in a straight line quickly but turning was a pain because of that.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Darrell Wesh

[mrelwood]

 

12 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

If you go down a flight of stairs on an EUC, every drop puts your feet farther forward.

That doesn’t happen to me though. Perhaps you should try to set the pedal calibration 2 degrees backwards.

 

12 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Pedal feel is important during those periods. 

I guess to me it isn’t, as I much prefer the superior grip.

 

12 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

😄 you’ve already said you’ve never tried a BOSU ball so would you believe me if I told you whole body leans and twists and tilts are exactly what’s useful for staying on one ?

We do have relatively similiar balancing excercise devices. I’m pretty sure the fundamentals are the same.

Of course you lean, twist and shout on one. The difference is in who is in control. On a balancing excercise device you lean, twist and tilt as you try to read and counteract the smallest movements in the center of gravity, your total balance. On an EUC you are (supposed to be) in control. You are the BOSU ball. You are not fighting to keep your balance as centered as possible. The whole purpose is to control the wheel by disturbing this balance. You command the wheel to go where you want. Feeling every slight bit of resistance to this does not seem at all important to me.

The fact that you need to feel the pedals as well as possible to know when your feet have bounced around too far, sounds like you are not in control. You are still on a BOSU ball, trying to hang on while the bouncing wheel decides where you stand.

Man I would hate that.

 

12 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

more shin contact with the EUC. For situations where you need a leg to hug the wheel (one legged tricks, uphill acceleration, mounting and dismounting) it helps.

Different wheels have huge differences in the leg contact point height. 20cm easily. With a little DIY the pads can be reattached 2cm higher. I do DIY instead of tricks, so this is a non-issue for me. Lack of grip would be though.

What I noticed with the new shoes is that mounting is a lot easier. I’m not yet sure why. Could be the added support. But I’m certain that if the help comes from a well supporting shoe, the feature turns bad in your books.

 

Discussing or arguing points with you is a bit frustrating since you lack the ability to understand that techniques and solutions that work for you will not work for everybody.

[Darrell Wesh]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

The fact that you need to feel the pedals as well as possible to know when your feet have bounced around too far, sounds like you are not in control. You are still on a BOSU ball, trying to hang on while the bouncing wheel decides where you stand.

Man I would hate that.

With all the mods that you do to your wheels and the crutches, cushioning and motion control you need just to ride a wheel, are you really in a position to say you’re in control? 

 

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Discussing or arguing points with you is a bit frustrating since you lack the ability to understand that techniques and solutions that work for you will not work for everybody.

You’re confusing things. When somebody- anybody- gives advice, they tell you what works for them and offer support about why it works for them. That’s all I’m doing. Somehow you think that means I’m going around telling everyone this way is the ONLY way.