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MSX 100v VS MSX 84v


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update. I received my msx and it turned out to be the 100v version by mistake. Jason's employee sent me the wrong wheel! an expensive mistake. I also do not have the charger which stinks but he is sending one to me now and it should be here soon.In the meantime i have been able to partially charge it with a solar charge controller that can change voltage from 12v all the way to 90v. so i am able to connect it directly to the battery and get about 45% charge which is fun for 10 minutes or so before you get really nervous about cut offs because at the speed i ride at the load on the motor is huge and i can make it drop 20% plus at those speeds you cant here the beeps which makes it worse. the faster you go the less safe it gets in every way including warning you. I would like to remount the speaker facing up toward me somehow and maybe a more powerful speaker? the wheel does not have Bluetooth connectivity to a headset which to me would be ideal because i could always hear he beep in my ear.the battery capacity is disappointing as i was hoping to have 1600w eventually but I have been researching building battery packs the last 6 months and I think with the space inside I will be able to make myself a 1600w 100v msx which in the end will be the best of all worlds!

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2 hours ago, Jason Vickery said:

I have been researching building battery packs the last 6 months and I think with the space inside I will be able to make myself a 1600w 100v msx which in the end will be the best of all worlds!

Where have you found good information about making battery packs?  I have trouble finding info through searching on here and it is something I am curious about as well:

How to make the packs

How to ensure they work with the EUC motor

Etc

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Interesting twist. I'd go for the 84V right away, but if you want to keep the 100V, why not.

1 hour ago, jfree13 said:

Where have you found good information about making battery packs?  I have trouble finding info through searching on here and it is something I am curious about as well:

How to make the packs

How to ensure they work with the EUC motor

Etc

You need a EUC-suitable BMS, and to know how to safely connect the cells so nothing gets disconnected during usage. Both points aren't as simple it may seem, but it can be done (easiest to just get an original BMS and read up on proper welding for self-made batteries).

All that is needed or compatibility is the right voltage, so it's only about how you link your cells in the battery pack (and using the same capacity of cells so there's no unequal discharging). That's the easy part:efee47c9c8:

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7 hours ago, Jason Vickery said:

update. I received my msx and it turned out to be the 100v version by mistake. Jason's employee sent me the wrong wheel! an expensive mistake. I also do not have the charger which stinks but he is sending one to me now and it should be here soon.In the meantime i have been able to partially charge it with a solar charge controller that can change voltage from 12v all the way to 90v. so i am able to connect it directly to the battery and get about 45% charge which is fun for 10 minutes or so before you get really nervous about cut offs because at the speed i ride at the load on the motor is huge and i can make it drop 20% plus at those speeds you cant here the beeps which makes it worse. the faster you go the less safe it gets in every way including warning you. I would like to remount the speaker facing up toward me somehow and maybe a more powerful speaker? the wheel does not have Bluetooth connectivity to a headset which to me would be ideal because i could always hear he beep in my ear.the battery capacity is disappointing as i was hoping to have 1600w eventually but I have been researching building battery packs the last 6 months and I think with the space inside I will be able to make myself a 1600w 100v msx which in the end will be the best of all worlds!

looking forward for a review from you :wub:

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5 hours ago, jfree13 said:

Where have you found good information about making battery packs?  I have trouble finding info through searching on here and it is something I am curious about as well:

How to make the packs

How to ensure they work with the EUC motor

Etc

you can look it up on YouTube. 18650 battery pack diy videos. jehugarcia has some and many many more. you can solder or spot weld. everyone who builds e-bikes does it as well as well as diy powerwalls and electric cars. the voltage is just the individual battery cells of 4.2v multiplied together to make the voltage. for example 4.2vx24=100.8 volts or 4.2v x 20 = 84v etc. there is a lot to learn honestly but if you take it slow and dont rush you will pick it up eventually.

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2 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

You can't use an ebike BMS, it must be suitable for EUCs (= not switch off on overloading).

Honestly you do not need a battery management system at all. if you are competent enough to build the pack then you can balance charge it yourself every so often and hook up sensors to monitor cell voltage etc to keep an eye on drift. I think battery management systems that fail are a bigger cause of cell failures then cells without such systems because there is no way to connect to or monitor the battery management system to make sure it is doing its job. while i have you here meepmeepmayor and you gave such a great response last time i have the opportunity to switch the 100v back for the 84v original deal and jason is shipping the 84v to me asap so for my situation maybe i should just go with the flow and go back to the 84v one and upgrade to the 1600watt when batteries are available... what do you think? now that i actually have gone 50kmh I would like my ceiling to be around 60kmh. can the 84v do that? i don't care as much about acceleration as i do about cruising speed but you gave a good defense to more cells in parallel and the current available. one more wise speech would put me at ease about going back to the 84v msx.

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If you value your speed so much, keep the 100V, then you'll never have doubts:efee47c9c8: I don't know if the 84V can do 60kph or how close to the 80% alarm that would be for you. How fast can your 100V go (before it starts beeping), did you test?

Safety wise, doesn't matter how many parallel cells you have, 4 or 6, both is enough. There were never any problems with 4p wheels in this regard. So go by speed vs range.

Personally I'd go for the 84V 1600Wh simply for the range, but I don't care about anything over 40kph, so that's just me. Also, if I wanted to build more batteries in, I'd start with the 1600Wh and add to that for maximum range. But again, that's me, I want range, range is what I want:efeeec645d: If you tend towards speed, keep your 100V and enjoy the fact it's the second fastest wheel available. Whether or not you add batteries later to get 1600Wh is secondary.

I'd say enjoy the wheel you already have.

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On 9/27/2018 at 11:45 AM, Jason Vickery said:

what an amazing response, thank you so much for the time you spent replying to this post. I am almost definitely going with the 84v MSX I would still like to know the top speed difference although i do not believe it will cause me to change my decision. I believe someone who weighs 230 pounds like me will benefit more from the larger battery pack. 

I drive a msx 84v I’m 220lbs and I have been 35 mph. Very nerve racking but fun. I wouldn’t go over 30 mph now, that’s fast enough.  Don’t know what top speed on 100v is! Either way wear protection and listen for those precious beeps

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I think you are right about starting with 1600 watt honestly if i can cruise at 50kmh thats all i want. and i have been told they can both do it. with me the top speed has more to do with range oddly enough because when under intense load of weight and speed I can see the battery go down 30% so since I can only charge it to 90v I am only starting at 45% battery and within a few minutes I am hearing the 10% beeps. range is really what I want as well and 40kmh is my normal speed as well so I am going to go with range and switch back to the 84v. then I will have a pretty good comparison between the two wheels as well. thanks for the help from everyone. 

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I do have a piece of information I think is worth mentioning. on my kingsong as the battery drops and my speed is limited by beeps it is also limited by the tilt back of the pedals. I think this should be an option you can turn on and off on the gotway. when i have 35% battery and I am pushing my msx and it hits the 10% under load spot and I cant hear the beeps because I am going 40-50kmh I would love to have a little tilt back to tell me my machine is beeping when I cant hear it like the kingsong does.

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1 hour ago, Jason Vickery said:

I do have a piece of information I think is worth mentioning. on my kingsong as the battery drops and my speed is limited by beeps it is also limited by the tilt back of the pedals. I think this should be an option you can turn on and off on the gotway. when i have 35% battery and I am pushing my msx and it hits the 10% under load spot and I cant hear the beeps because I am going 40-50kmh I would love to have a little tilt back to tell me my machine is beeping when I cant hear it like the kingsong does.

You def lost me on the batteries, but thanks!  I am starting from ground zero when it comes to those...

gotways should have a tiltback setting. Oddly enough, when I was learning I had the tiltback set to 15kph and when it kicked in I felt like my toes were pointed straight up at my face. 

Now I like cruisin around 35-40kph and have tiltback set to 45, but when I hit 45 I hardly notice it or I feel like it actually doesn’t kick in at all. I’ll need to test it at 15 again and see if it still tilts like i thought it did while I was learning to ride. This is all on a Tesla anyway so I can’t speak to msx, hopefully soon though, I’ve been drooling over the plethora of rave reviews and ride vids. 

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i was loving the look of the tesla and still would love to ride one I am guessing it is more nimble than the msx. the msx drives in a straight line really well and feels very planted. my smaller euc feels like ice skating as some people say.the battery thing is complex at first but go watch some diy videos and learn what series and parallel mean and how to build a pack and come back and read this and it will make sense. 

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11 minutes ago, Jason Vickery said:

i was loving the look of the tesla and still would love to ride one I am guessing it is more nimble than the msx. the msx drives in a straight line really well and feels very planted. my smaller euc feels like ice skating as some people say.the battery thing is complex at first but go watch some diy videos and learn what series and parallel mean and how to build a pack and come back and read this and it will make sense. 

From the way you describe the battery drop when bursting out the gate with your msx and that you DONT like that with the 100v- we’ll that’s the tesla but even sooner.   Tesla does go straight very well too, but it doesn’t like very crappy roads.

It is still a great first ride and I probably would have regret getting anything smaller/ less powerful for my environment. 

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You definitely bought a great first wheel. My previous wheel is the ks 14-d and it was great for learning and it is nimble and I will keep it to teach other new riders so they don't destroy my msx but the limitations become glaringly obviously very quickly. Overall it was worth the money because it was not to expensive to keep me from getting into the sport and I can get others interested with it. If I had bought a Tesla as my first wheel I might have been happy enough with it for a while not to have wanted something bigger. I became proficient at riding my 14 inch kingsong on rough terrain and although the msx does it much better I still use and need the riding skills I aquired riding the smaller wheel the larger msx does not remove the danger or difficulty of riding rough rodes and terrain it only alleviates it. Maybe you can get a wider tire for your Tesla or do some modifications to it to keep your interest in it peeked. I have been loving modifying my msx where as on my first wheel I never really considered it other than my external charger I carried in my backpack and could plug in while I ride to extend my range. Now my eyes have been opened to all I can modify and customize my wheel. Cheers! Always wanted to say that eeven though I an American I always liked the greeting.

Edited by Jason Vickery
mispelled word
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An important warning: When making and connecting DIY battery packs, measure and double-check the voltages EVERY time you connect anything. These battery packs have enough energy to turn into a burst of fire in a second if shorted or connected wrong. Even more experienced guys have screwed up with them.

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my charge and ride system was a 36v hoverboard battery that i connected to a solar charge controller which can change the voltage for me from the 36v of the hoverboard battery to the 67.2v of my kingsong 14d. if you connect it to the charge port before you turn the wheel on it wont drive but if you turn the wheel on first and then turn the charger on it will drive while charging. I also installed an on/off switch in between that i could reach while riding so i can toggle the power on and off while riding. it was a huge success and doubled my full speed usable range. I had the idea and could find nobody who had done it and then i came across the video of a one wheel skateboard device who had done the experiment successfully so i ordered the charge controller they used and bada bing bada boom. I am not telling anyone to do this but i believe in having options and i have a good understanding of what i did and possible risks and i feel my risk was manageable and i would be happy to explain my thinking further if anyone is curious.

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On 9/28/2018 at 10:53 AM, who_the said:

Yes, actually, we can. Here's 62.9 kph on an 84v MSX. Personal best.

The top end differential between an 84v and 100v MSX is a bit like the extra performance between a Ferrari 488 GTB and a Pista. Yes, the Pista is faster. Yes, it costs more. And yes, most mere mortals would appreciate the GTB as the summit of their driving experience. For nearly everybody, the Pista is overkill.

A 1600wh 84v MSX is flat-out the best wheel on the planet. 35 mph all day, if you feel you need to go faster, buy a motorcycle.

Have fun and stay safe!

Screenshot_20180920-212723_WheelLog.thumb.jpg.ead84e4465950e9cc098d7f9ce27d146.jpg

 

I have to agree, while there are wheels I have yet to ride they most certainly do not have the speed I want and hence not in the competition, for me that is I do admit I am a speed freak and suspect you too looking at the screen hehehe. I have seen pictures/screens (one a friend showing his friends wheel that is not even riding himself so weird) and it is so obvious lift speeds recorded, this is also the reason I am not going to plaster up my latest adventures cause I have no witness to that but I know for a fact myself depending on conditions the wheel is capable of this speed at least for very short bursts. I do not think this is usable speed in any long run not to mention how the heck are we supposed to hear the signals, I for one hear nothing at this kind of speed so after a top like this I let go of some forward pressure right away just in case it did want me to and heard nothing?

The wheel is dangerously fast and even I at some 90kg on it, I do however have 2 witnesses (forum members) at 59.6km/h and that road is not leaning downwards, if anything rather 1 or 2 degree upwards + I have gone very temporary at these kind of Weellog speeds and even 1 recorded above it but I am alone and surface is not perfectly flat, actually leaning down a bit so I will not count that myself as any record attempt but it's enough as confirmation to me that your speed is genuine and not cheating. Right conditions and the wheel is capable I know this.

I am probably blind and just missed it, but can anyone direct me to any 100v riders that recorded speed attempt's at their wheels?  I have the 84v variant and I just love how powerful this thing is and for the longest time was so surprised how the heck it could drag my fat ass up such relatively steep hills at such high speeds? I mean it's not extreme Marty Backe hill pushing for that steep and long time periods but still quite steep and faster than some top end wheels on a flat surface going up a bit of angle, is that not crazy thinking about it?  I hope otherwise some 100v riders will post speeds here cause me too find it very interesting comparing + so many in the situation of choosing which one and for what reason?  I suspect probably Chooch would have some nice screens if only seeing this, he is that kind too riding fast and aggressive and if not wrong got th 100v variant right?

I for one am not very convinced the top end lift speed is a good indicator to be honest, not sure what the 100v can do under life but my 84v shut off at 77.2km/h just now checking it, can differ slightly though, surely?   The wheel is not requiring the same A free rolling right, must be quite the difference under load I suspect. The 100v could probably do almost 10km/h more under lift conditions but I doubt very much under real conditions, hey I don't know I'm speculating but show me a single trusted source of 100v variant going that much faster in real life conditions and with some weight on it I might just have to bite now and not wait for next model haha?

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Please use paragraphs:efee47c9c8:

Appreciate your impressions and especially your range results. So 1300Wh gives you 20 miles at high speed and with high rider weight. I get almost double at ~30kph and 80kg. Just shows how big an influence wind resistance and (to a lesser but still major degree) weight are.

Do I understand this right that your answer to the question "84V or 100V" is "both!"? Cool! Why not!

Tire pressure: that max that it says on the tire. Or whtaever you find comfortable.

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Yeah makes sense, I run into the beeps all the time too. When I received the 84v/1600Wh I was 90kg, just adding a couple of kilos + the backpack on adding a total of between 10 and 15kg extra the warnings come a few km/h earlier so anything over 90kg to me seams to have some effect. I still get the warnings often now but cause being very aggressive, just backing off slightly and it is possible to not have them and cruise a bit above 50km/h but like you say also depend on wind etc.

I want a 100v with more cells, 6p. :w00t2:

 

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42 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Please use paragraphs:efee47c9c8:

Appreciate your impressions and especially your range results. So 1300Wh gives you 20 miles at high speed and with high rider weight. I get almost double at ~30kph and 80kg. Just shows how big an influence wind resistance and (to a lesser but still major degree) weight are.

Do I understand this right that your answer to the question "84V or 100V" is "both!"? Cool! Why not!

Tire pressure: that max that it says on the tire. Or whtaever you find comfortable.

Good advice :thumbup:  Unfortunately I just couldn't get myself to read any of that post - started to give me a headache :(

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2 hours ago, Jason Vickery said:

Update. Here is my opinion and experience now having ridden the 84v and the 100v. As far as speed and acceleration go and pedal angles,range etc. I have not and do not notice any difference in acceleration between the two wheels at all. They ride exactly the same. Top speed I did notice a difference. I am 230-235lb without gear and I seem to consistently get beeps at 50kmh on the 84v. Now this will differ according to your weight and the wind and the incline etc. I live in Florida which is pretty flat and this seems to be pretty consistent.Now on the 100v I did not get the beeps at 50kmh but I also could not bring myself to push it much past this speed anyway because it is fast and with wind resistance etc I feel like 50kmh is a good top cruising speed. Now I will do further testing and like others have said I am sure the wheel can go faster than 50kmh downhill or with the wind at your back etc without the beeps. I just wanted everyone to know that the wheels are identical to me in everything other than top speed and if you are not almost 250 lbs like me then you should get a higher top cruising speed on the 84v  than I do. When I received the 100v I destroyed the stock side pads instantly with normal use in the first day. They also are very grippy and stick to your legs and pull all of your leg hairs out. Now thanks to Jason at eWheel we have the replacement pads which I installed and seem to he much better quality. Like others have shown you peel the old ones off and sand down the little nub that is left from the plastic molding process and apply the new pads. Now the new pads do not fit inside of the groove like the old ones or the ones you can buy aftermarket they actually cover the design depression which seems to me like it would leave a small week spot between the side pads and most of the adhesion area in the center so I filled that space with two layers of double sided carpet tape and then applied the pads. I also filed down the pedals as shown in some videos and pictures bringing them down from 15° dihedral angle to 10°. I still experienced foot pain and cramping extensively and I know me being 70lbs overweight does not help tye matter. With the wide body of the msx and the additional side pads I feel like my feet are going to fall off the pedals not from front to back but off of the outer sides. When I received the new 84v msx I quickly removed the original side pads but I did not put the new ones on and I did not change the pedal angles yet. I am enjoying it in this form. I feel like I have less protection for the wheel without the side pads but my feet do not hurt as much even with the increased pedal angles I think because my legs can get closer to the wheel. I would love a very thin pad that just barely exceeds the mold depression kind of like the original ones but better quality. I wonder what euc guys aftermarket ones are like as far as how far they stick out. I went on a long distance ride yesterday and here are my numbers. Traveling at 40-50kmh the entire trip with the 1300 watt msx 84v and being a rider of 235lbs under normal wind conditions and a nice warm temperature I was able to travel 20 miles at high speed. Without having hearing the beeps below 45kmh. Now this number is under max cruising speeds the entire trip and I could go further if I were to travel slower the entire journey or even travel the same pace up to 20 miles and then start reducing my speed. I just wanted you all to know with my weight and at top cruising speed I get 20 miles. Now I will definitely be upgrading to the 1600 watt hour battery packs and eventually be adding onto that as I like to travel at top cruising speed on long stretches of open road. Well thanks guys and any recommendations on tire pressure etc are welcome I haven't changed any of that since it came out of the box. Hope to talk with you soon.

Thank you Jason, that was exactly the information i was  searching for weeks!

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20 hours ago, Jason Vickery said:

Update. Here is my opinion and experience now having ridden the 84v and the 100v. As far as speed and acceleration go and pedal angles,range etc. I have not and do not notice any difference in acceleration between the two wheels at all. They ride exactly the same. Top speed I did notice a difference. I am 230-235lb without gear and I seem to consistently get beeps at 50kmh on the 84v. Now this will differ according to your weight and the wind and the incline etc. I live in Florida which is pretty flat and this seems to be pretty consistent.Now on the 100v I did not get the beeps at 50kmh but I also could not bring myself to push it much past this speed anyway because it is fast and with wind resistance etc I feel like 50kmh is a good top cruising speed. Now I will do further testing and like others have said I am sure the wheel can go faster than 50kmh downhill or with the wind at your back etc without the beeps. I just wanted everyone to know that the wheels are identical to me in everything other than top speed and if you are not almost 250 lbs like me then you should get a higher top cruising speed on the 84v  than I do. When I received the 100v I destroyed the stock side pads instantly with normal use in the first day. They also are very grippy and stick to your legs and pull all of your leg hairs out. Now thanks to Jason at eWheel we have the replacement pads which I installed and seem to he much better quality. Like others have shown you peel the old ones off and sand down the little nub that is left from the plastic molding process and apply the new pads. Now the new pads do not fit inside of the groove like the old ones or the ones you can buy aftermarket they actually cover the design depression which seems to me like it would leave a small week spot between the side pads and most of the adhesion area in the center so I filled that space with two layers of double sided carpet tape and then applied the pads. I also filed down the pedals as shown in some videos and pictures bringing them down from 15° dihedral angle to 10°. I still experienced foot pain and cramping extensively and I know me being 70lbs overweight does not help tye matter. With the wide body of the msx and the additional side pads I feel like my feet are going to fall off the pedals not from front to back but off of the outer sides. When I received the new 84v msx I quickly removed the original side pads but I did not put the new ones on and I did not change the pedal angles yet. I am enjoying it in this form. I feel like I have less protection for the wheel without the side pads but my feet do not hurt as much even with the increased pedal angles I think because my legs can get closer to the wheel. I would love a very thin pad that just barely exceeds the mold depression kind of like the original ones but better quality. I wonder what euc guys aftermarket ones are like as far as how far they stick out. I went on a long distance ride yesterday and here are my numbers. Traveling at 40-50kmh the entire trip with the 1300 watt msx 84v and being a rider of 235lbs under normal wind conditions and a nice warm temperature I was able to travel 20 miles at high speed. Without having hearing the beeps below 45kmh. Now this number is under max cruising speeds the entire trip and I could go further if I were to travel slower the entire journey or even travel the same pace up to 20 miles and then start reducing my speed. I just wanted you all to know with my weight and at top cruising speed I get 20 miles. Now I will definitely be upgrading to the 1600 watt hour battery packs and eventually be adding onto that as I like to travel at top cruising speed on long stretches of open road. Well thanks guys and any recommendations on tire pressure etc are welcome I haven't changed any of that since it came out of the box. Hope to talk with you soon.

Very nice first observations, I had taken my Msuper v3s to 53km/h (I did the beeps), MSX 84V is much, much better machine. I only pushed it up to 49km/h according to gps, Im 175lbs. 

I wanted to move speaker out of the unit, mount it pointing up as well. Once it'll get cold here in Canada I'll do that. Blutooth headphones beeps, Ive been dreaming/ talking about this sense my ACM. Maybe Gotway will change that one day ;)

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On 10/16/2018 at 1:47 PM, Jason Vickery said:

Update. Here is my opinion and experience now having ridden the 84v and the 100v. As far as speed and acceleration go and pedal angles,range etc. I have not and do not notice any difference in acceleration between the two wheels at all. They ride exactly the same. Top speed I did notice a difference. I am 230-235lb without gear and I seem to consistently get beeps at 50kmh on the 84v. Now this will differ according to your weight and the wind and the incline etc. I live in Florida which is pretty flat and this seems to be pretty consistent.Now on the 100v I did not get the beeps at 50kmh but I also could not bring myself to push it much past this speed anyway because it is fast and with wind resistance etc I feel like 50kmh is a good top cruising speed. Now I will do further testing and like others have said I am sure the wheel can go faster than 50kmh downhill or with the wind at your back etc without the beeps. I just wanted everyone to know that the wheels are identical to me in everything other than top speed and if you are not almost 250 lbs like me then you should get a higher top cruising speed on the 84v  than I do. When I received the 100v I destroyed the stock side pads instantly with normal use in the first day. They also are very grippy and stick to your legs and pull all of your leg hairs out. Now thanks to Jason at eWheel we have the replacement pads which I installed and seem to he much better quality. Like others have shown you peel the old ones off and sand down the little nub that is left from the plastic molding process and apply the new pads. Now the new pads do not fit inside of the groove like the old ones or the ones you can buy aftermarket they actually cover the design depression which seems to me like it would leave a small week spot between the side pads and most of the adhesion area in the center so I filled that space with two layers of double sided carpet tape and then applied the pads. I also filed down the pedals as shown in some videos and pictures bringing them down from 15° dihedral angle to 10°. I still experienced foot pain and cramping extensively and I know me being 70lbs overweight does not help tye matter. With the wide body of the msx and the additional side pads I feel like my feet are going to fall off the pedals not from front to back but off of the outer sides. When I received the new 84v msx I quickly removed the original side pads but I did not put the new ones on and I did not change the pedal angles yet. I am enjoying it in this form. I feel like I have less protection for the wheel without the side pads but my feet do not hurt as much even with the increased pedal angles I think because my legs can get closer to the wheel. I would love a very thin pad that just barely exceeds the mold depression kind of like the original ones but better quality. I wonder what euc guys aftermarket ones are like as far as how far they stick out. I went on a long distance ride yesterday and here are my numbers. Traveling at 40-50kmh the entire trip with the 1300 watt msx 84v and being a rider of 235lbs under normal wind conditions and a nice warm temperature I was able to travel 20 miles at high speed. Without having hearing the beeps below 45kmh. Now this number is under max cruising speeds the entire trip and I could go further if I were to travel slower the entire journey or even travel the same pace up to 20 miles and then start reducing my speed. I just wanted you all to know with my weight and at top cruising speed I get 20 miles. Now I will definitely be upgrading to the 1600 watt hour battery packs and eventually be adding onto that as I like to travel at top cruising speed on long stretches of open road. Well thanks guys and any recommendations on tire pressure etc are welcome I haven't changed any of that since it came out of the box. Hope to talk with you soon.

Dude, this is a great in depth comparison of the two motors, first one I've seen at least!  This really pushes me towards getting the 84v 1600wh, now to just start a gofundme page...

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