New model KS18L2 with more battery?

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

so the 18LX will be 24.3kg maybe?

That makes sense and would be reasonable.

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I'd like to know how and where they cram the extra batteries in there, though.

I’m intrigued by the fact that an outer shell support fin must be cut in order to fit the batteries. That means the new pack is at least partially thicker. Besides that, there seemed to be unused space around the speakers.

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Would you have preferred (the ergonomics of) the 18LX over it?

Still haven’t ridden an 18L, but I’m sure I would’ve.

[Lutalo]

9 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

The one modification that needs to accommodate the larger battery, is the reinforcing rib on the outer panel needs to be leveled.

I have taken one shop class in my life. It was in the 8th grade back in the year $$$$, and I barely passed it. Anyone know what tool will be needed to level the reinforcing rib?

Also, any knowledge or theories about how the reinforcing rib might be designed on the outer shells of the upgraded wheels; will it be a modified reinforcing rib similar to what @Jason McNeilrecommended we do fit the upgraded battery packs into the old wheels? Or, Will the reinforcing rib design be changed for the new shells?

[meepmeepmayer]

49 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I’m intrigued by the fact that an outer shell support fin must be cut in order to fit the batteries. That means the new pack is at least partially thicker. Besides that, there seemed to be unused space around the speakers.

I guess the simplest solution, and the one they're going for, is 3 layers of batteries instead of 2. That makes 120 instead of 80 cells and they don't have to do any new battery shape. Apparently there is enough width in the shell for the (15.6mm) thickness of the extra layer? That would also explain why the side spacer needs to be filed off.

41 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

I have taken one shop class in my life. It was in the 8th grade back in the year $$$$, and I barely passed it. Anyone know what tool will be needed to level the reinforcing rib?

Also, any knowledge or theories about how the reinforcing rib might be designed on the outer shells of the upgraded wheels; will it be a modified reinforcing rib similar to what @Jason McNeilrecommended we do fit the upgraded battery packs into the old wheels? Or, Will the reinforcing rib design be changed for the new shells?

Exacto knife and maybe a bit of sandpaper? Shouldn't be hard.

I'd assume the thicker battery touches the side panel, so reinforcement ribs are no longer necessary. Or the battery housing has some spacers in the appropriate places. Or (Chinese manufacturer after all) they just shrug their shoulders

--

All just guesses.

[Lutalo]

15 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Exacto knife and maybe a bit of sandpaper? Shouldn't be hard.

I'd assume the thicker battery touches the side panel, so reinforcement ribs are no longer necessary. Or the battery housing has some spacers in the appropriate places. Or (Chinese manufacturer after all) they just shrug their shoulders

--

Cool, thanks. Had to look up what is an exacto ?; I see that it is basically a craft tool for making precision cuts and trimming. Seems easy enough with the right tools. Thanks dude. ??

[who_the]

3 hours ago, Jason McNeil said:

Obviously 18L Buyers will have the choice, & make the explicit selection, between a new pack & a minimally used one, with a slight discount for the latter.

Authorized refurbished, with warranty. Lots of precedent for this approach with electronics and computers. I like to buy this way from reputable manufacturers like Canon and Apple. As long as everything is disclosed I have no problem with it.

[mrelwood]

4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I guess the simplest solution, and the one they're going for, is 3 layers of batteries instead of 2. That makes 120 instead of 80 cells and they don't have to do any new battery shape. Apparently there is enough width in the shell for the (15.6mm) thickness of the extra layer? That would also explain why the side spacer needs to be filed off.

Borderline pointless speculating this as we will soon know the details, but I’m still interested! Isn’t the current configuration one layer of batteries per side? A third layer would have to be spread evenly on both sides. Since the middle section is fatter, seems they were able to fit 20 cells per side. I assume the 15.6mm is what is needed to stack 18mm cylinders between the first layer?

4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

All just guesses.

Exacto!

Ps. The exacto knife might be a bit too light and precise (and dangerous) for tough plastic. I think I would go for a proper sharp woodcraft knife, or even a small planer/shaver.

[Lutalo]

15 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Exacto!

Ps. The exacto knife might be a bit too light and precise (and dangerous) for tough plastic. I think I would go for a proper sharp woodcraft knife, or even a small planer/shaver.

Yeah, thanks.  I was wondering about that. Saw a lot of videos of craft artists cutting paper and cardboard with Exacto knives. 

[Infermata]

I would love upgrade my KS18L to the KS18LX but $2570 for a KS18LX ($1780 plus $800) doesn't sound like a good deal to me. Plus I have to modify the shell, install different a handle, different pedals and return my KS18l batteries? At that price, my wife would smack the crap out of me.

Probably be best to sell the L and buy the LX for $2100 to $2200

[em1barns]

3 hours ago, Lutalo said:

Yeah, thanks.  I was wondering about that. Saw a lot of videos of craft artist cutting paper and cardboard with Exacto knives. 

Try a Dremel as an alternative. I have been carving and reshaping plastic pieces easily with it.

[Lutalo]

7 hours ago, Infermata said:

I would love upgrade my KS18L to the KS18LX but $2570 for a KS18LX ($1780 plus $800) doesn't sound like a good deal to me. Plus I have to modify the shell, install different a handle, different pedals and return my KS18l batteries? At that price, my wife would smack the crap out of me.

Probably be best to sell the L and buy the LX for $2100 to $2200

Makes good sense. I share the three wheels I have with my sons. So I want to purchase the 18LX as my dedicated unit. I am considering upgrading the 18L unit I have for my son's benefit. 

For me upgrading the original wheel makes some sense because I purchased a first batch 18L at the intro price. The upgrade package would put me at only slightly more than the purchase price of a new 18LX. 

Unless I quickly find a local buyer, the hassle of returning the original control board and battery might be equal to the hassle of selling and shipping the wheel. 

 

[Lutalo]

6 hours ago, em1barns said:

Try a Dremel as an alternative. I have been carving and reshaping plastic pieces easily with it.

Cool, man. Yeah. I'm lazy, so I was thinking of the power tool route; a small easily portable sander/grinder. Thanks for the suggestion.

[ShadowWheelin']

@LutaloI would also recommend a rotary tool, the brand name tool is "Dremel", for cutting plastics over an hobby knife.  A hobby knife is better suited for shaving thin layers of plastic a layer at a time, where as, a rotary tool is better suited for cutting through plastics using a thin round disk spinning at high RPM.  There are also attachments you can use to sand smooth, and even polish the surface you've cut away to give your work area a finished look.   

[Lutalo]

2 minutes ago, ShadowWheelin' said:

@LutaloI would also recommend a rotary tool, the brand name tool is "Dremel", for cutting plastics over an hobby knife.  A hobby knife is better suited for shaving thin layers of plastic a layer at a time, where as, a rotary tool is better suited for cutting through plastics using a thin round disk spinning at high RPM.  There are also attachments you can use to sand smooth, and even polish the surface you've cut away to give your work area a finished look.   

Nice. Thanks for the suggestion. @em1barns was just suggesting the same thing and I am all for it. Much better than me sweating over a piece of plastic.

[ChandlerAZ]

12 hours ago, Infermata said:

I would love upgrade my KS18L to the KS18LX but $2570 for a KS18LX ($1780 plus $800) doesn't sound like a good deal to me. Plus I have to modify the shell, install different a handle, different pedals and return my KS18l batteries? At that price, my wife would smack the crap out of me.

Probably be best to sell the L and buy the LX for $2100 to $2200

That is kind of the elephant in the room....I paid $1570, so adding $800 would make my total to $2370 for the 18L to 18XL mod. At that price and with all the work to modify, I'm more inclined to purchase it new.

[Lutalo]

3 minutes ago, ChandlerAZ said:

That is kind of the elephant in the room....I paid $1570, so adding $800 would make my total to $2370 for the 18L to 18XL mod. At that price and with all the work to modify, I'm more inclined to purchase it new.

That makes sense, but I figure the extra cost as a cover charge for control and convenience.

The particular convenience is no wheel downtime while I wait for shipment of replacement parts. Selling the wheel sacrifices some control to market forces, especially if my plan is to sell before purchasing a wheel.

That means selling the 18L, ordering the 18LX and going sans wheel for however long shipping takes.

Obviously for those with backup wheels this is only a minor inconvenience if you really like your backup wheels. My backups were awesome several years ago when they were mains, but today they feel somewhat blasé compared to what is available at the moment. 

The upgrade allows me to continue daily use of my wheel while my LX transformation parts languish upon the month-long journey across the Pacific. 

[Infermata]

7 hours ago, Lutalo said:

Makes good sense. I share the three wheels I have with my sons. So I want to purchase the 18LX as my dedicated unit. I am considering upgrading the 18L unit I have for my son's benefit. 

For me upgrading the original wheel makes some sense because I purchased a first batch 18L at the intro price. The upgrade package would put me at only slightly more than the purchase price of a new 18LX. 

Unless I quickly find a local buyer, the hassle of returning the original control board and battery might be equal to the hassle of selling and shipping the wheel. 

 

I guess it makes sense for the people who purchased at the intro price, but I a little disappointed that Kingsong would have a new top of the line model 3 months after the launch of their top of the line model.

I waited for the KS18L and would have waited more if I knew the LX was coming out so soon after. 

........Sorry for the negativity BTW

[Lutalo]

On 10/1/2018 at 3:29 PM, Infermata said:

I guess it makes sense for the people who purchased at the intro price, but I a little disappointed that Kingsong would have a new top of the line model 3 months after the launch of their top of the line model.

I waited for the KS18L and would have waited more if I knew the LX was coming out so soon after. 

........Sorry for the negativity BTW

IMHO. KS is only doing what should have been done with the original wheel in the first place. From the threads, it seems KS may have lost a significant number of buyers to Gotway simply because of the range; significant enough to make them reconsider their offering. Many have stated that they would have purchased a KS if it had more range. The MSX is a great riding wheel so,  those who have already committed the dough for the MSX will probably stay with it. However,  those who love KS wheels, have not yet purchased, and are on the fence because of range now have an option available to get them off the fence. 

Outside of Asia, the riders are larger-framed and heavier; especially in the USA where on top of larger-framed physiques, obesity rates are through the roof; These larger riders require more powerful wheels for them to be useful as anything other than toys. 

I just think they are doing the smart thing and quickly adapting to market demands.

I wonder if the18 LX will be available in Asia; the new range capability might not be as important a dealmaker there as in the North American and Euro market. 

[eufp]

On 10/1/2018 at 9:29 PM, Infermata said:

I guess it makes sense for the people who purchased at the intro price, but I a little disappointed that Kingsong would have a new top of the line model 3 months after the launch of their top of the line model.

I waited for the KS18L and would have waited more if I knew the LX was coming out so soon after. 

Yes, agree. I am also looking forward to a kit—would like to upgrade the range capabilities.

[Augus]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/134599833910471/

The weight is -about 2kg more than the 18L....just the weight for the extra 40 cells, each about 50 grams

[Shad0z]

On 9/20/2018 at 1:49 PM, US69 said:

You should look the complete Video...then you know what i mean.

And nope, actually the Russian Video makes sense, flat terrain all the time, not that Ultra fast!

we have a 105kg rider here who did 80km on the 18L...2%left....so my only guess to Ian's range is that one of the battery packs is not working at all. Duf had that at the start with his 18l and got the same worse (half)mileage. 

 

How fast did he go? 10kph? Both my freinds. (90kg and 85kg) get 50-55km range. And thats also when trying to conserve the battery

[Lutalo]

2 hours ago, Shad0z said:

How fast did he go? 10kph? Both my freinds. (90kg and 85kg) get 50-55km range. And thats also when trying to conserve the battery

I did 56km yesterday and 3 bars lit when I was done, I am sure with 3 bars I could have pushed another 10-15km. I did a 40km ride today that took a little less than half according to the lights. Not an accurate measurement of range, but reasonably sound impression that he been repeated with similar results on many occasions ND varying weather conditions; the terrain obviously doesn't change. 

 

[Lutalo]

@Shad0z I take impressions of range as a more qualitative approach because I usually don't bother with the app when I am rolling. Also. While I think it is important to do quantitative tests, there already exists a pretty decent body of quantitative knowledge for the 18L on that topic. I would merely be adding more of the same into the portmanteau.

[Lutalo]

On 10/3/2018 at 2:41 AM, eufp said:

Yes, agree. I am also looking forward to a kit—would like to upgrade the range capabilities.

It makes sense to me from a marketing standpoint that the upgrade kit would be offered at a slightly higher price. If KS makes a new wheel, they obviously want sales priority to go to the wheel units over the upgrade kits.

I imagine that downrange most kit buyers are going to be riders that have either bought the 18L used or have own owned the wheel for a good number of ticks on the clock, and want to refresh it instead of buying a new wheel.

For used buyers the upgrade kit could make a lot of good sense, if they wait a year or so to purchase an 18L, because they will have purchased at an extreme discount. I don't believe that used 18Ls will come at large discounts just yet. 

Owners offloading 18Ls now to upgrade to the 18LX will be trying to get top dollar to minimize the cost difference between the 18L and LX. 

Expect discounts a year or so out, when a wheel becomes available with a 3000 or 4000 watt motor, a top speed of 50 mph, and an effective range of 100 miles from a 400 volt battery that only weighs 5 pounds. Assuming said hypothetical wheel is reasonably priced, Everybody currently riding 18Ls and MSXs will be dumping their wheels for the new one. Then you will see some seriously discounted 18Ls and MSXs. ??

 

[Hatchet]

Hey Kingsong, if you really want to put some feet on your pedals, you'd go ahead and throw a 3" tire on that new wheel too. The MSX has given me a taste for finer things in life, like a 3" tire.

?

[DanCar]

1 hour ago, Hatchet said:

Hey Kingsong, if you really want to put some feet on your pedals, you'd go ahead and throw a 3" tire on that new wheel too. The MSX has given me a taste for finer things in life, like a 3" tire.

?

Can you give us some details?  What makes the 3 inch tire nice?  Would a 4 inch or 5 inch tire be better?