My (excellent) experience with a KS-18L as a first wheel

[chafouin]

Hello,

I am the very happy new owner of a KS 18L as a first wheel.
I wanted to post my experience about learning on this wheel but also ask few questions to other 18L riders about the alarms.

Background
I am 175cm/78Kg (5'9"/172lbs), 39yrs, never had a unicycle, riding in Chicago with the goal to replace my train commute. Roads are mostly flat, but lots of them are full of potholes or in renovation (aka streets half tiered down with gravels and bumps that even a car driver would hate). I received my 18L from eWheels at the end of August, so it is part of the "Batch2". I also got the 5A turbo charger for it, and it works great.

My experience learning to ride a unicycle on the 18L
It's not harder to learn on the 18L. While I have obviously no way to compare a first experience on another wheel, I have learned to ride it in 4 days, spending 30-45 min each day (could not dedicate more time to it)
It seems to me that experiences in skiing, ice skating, surfing, riding a bike without using hands, etc.. are the best lead indicators of an easy/fast learning curve. It's just another variation of finding your body balance.
In day 1-2, I was practicing on my backyard on the pavement (maybe 20x10 ft): so just enough to get on and off. That's not enough distance to go fast at all, and all the balance exercises were happening at extremely low speed.  I realized on day 3 in the back alley that some additional speed (and anything would have been faster than on day 1-2) was providing the stability I needed to feel comfortable and stay on the wheel. Turning is like skiing, shifting your weight on your legs. More work is needed for me to exhibit total grace but the main point here is that if the 18L was hypothetically hard to learn, I did not experience it.

I ran on FW 1.07 Day 1-3 and upgraded to FW 1.11 on day 4. I did not feel any differences, but that's probably because I have not yet internalized the wheel's behavior. Note that I have only checked my tire pressure on day 5, and realized that it was only ~20 PSI. So possibly, learning on at lower pressure was easier because once I updated to ~40-45 PSI, it was harder to get on. 

On day 6, I commuted to work: I had terrible wobbling at medium-high speed, but thanks to the posts on this site I got rid of it by lowering the pressure a little (~35 PSI) and by adjusting my feet positioning.
I would say that the most impactful posts for me were the ones from @houseofjob on feet positioning techniques. I can totally relate to analogies with skiing (I actually surprised wanting to turn like skiing: using a pole, tight the wheel between my legs and jump ?). The major tip for me was his "diagonal riding" that totally got rid of my wobbling wheel effect. I also found that balancing weight on each foot like "ice skating" slowly works too; too well maybe as the wheel keeps on accelerating while ice skating would just maintain speed (due to the resistance of the ice).

On day 7, I don't have any real issues, commuting to work is great but it's still an adventure due to Chicago's traffic/roads, and It reduces my commute time by 25%. I keep on hitting the level 3 alarm (set at 35 km/h) with too much ease, which leads me to my only complain & question with this wheel: the alarms.

I have not experienced any lights issues, locks, or trolley handle problems at this point.
Lifting the wheel works 100% of the time for me when I do it in 2 steps: 1) I give a brief pull up on the handle ( just the handle not the whole the tire) to get the "beep", and then 2) I lift the whole wheel up.

I set the wheel configuration on "experienced" on day 1, as I did not see the benefits to learn a soft wheel behavior to then change it to a more reactive one: better to just learn the reactive one from the beginining.

Speed Alarms
When I started riding the 18L, I hit the "back tilt" quite easily with the default settings. I then changed the speed limit values to allow me to ride without getting to the "back tilt" that quickly. That's when it hit me: the "back tilt" is supposed to be the last warning. I understand that the wheel is supposed to "Beep" or "Vibrate" or "Speak something" at three alarm levels prior to the tilt: I got none of them. Playing with the App, it seems that I can get beeps by turning off the voice, but then it seems that the wheel beeps all the time, so I ended up turning alarms 1 and 2 off and only kept alarm 3 at 35 km/h (since I believe 40 km/h is the max until I get to 200km). Also, the "vibrate" option does not seem to do anything. Is the wheel supposed to vibrate or is it the phone? Nothing happens to me. Have other experienced something different?
The range control in the apps goes all the way to 60 km/h, what I happen if I set 60? Would the wheel still alert me at 40km/h (or 50km/h after the 200km)?
I set the alarm 3 at 35 and the tilt back at 38, but if the wheel is smart and there is no "cut off", then I supposed I could just put 38 and 40 instead? Comments? Have some of you tried? What do you use?

Btw, is Darknessbot report's speed supposed to be accurate (with iphone)?

Finally, while it's somewhere on this forum, I am re-sharing one advice to protect the wheel that I found was really useful.
As everyone knows, it's better to protect the wheel from crashes with bumper strips. But don't apply to the wheel directly, because the double tape leaves residues when taking it out. So instead, put first some painting tape and then stick the double tape with the bumper strips on the tape. Here are some pics of my 18L for reference. I took everything off on day 6, absolutely no tape marks.

Thanks to all the people on this forum who continuously provide mentorship!

[houseofjob]

Nice post and welcome to EUC & the forums!

Always interesting to see what helps make things click for different people when they learn EUC, as I'm trying to figure out a good EUC teaching regimen to use on friends, etc. And glad to hear my posts were of some help! *ego stroke*

 

31 minutes ago, chafouin said:

The major tip for me was his "diagonal riding" that totally got rid of my wobbling wheel effect. I also found that balancing weight on each foot like "ice skating" slowly works too; too well maybe as the wheel keeps on accelerating while ice skating would just maintain speed (due to the resistance of the ice).

Yes, key is to dispel the myth / mis-thinking that equal weight goes on each foot. Something like 60-40 balance favoring a lead foot, like with many other sports I think, particularly skiing & all the skating variations.

 

31 minutes ago, chafouin said:

Speed Alarms
When I started riding the 18L, I hit the "back tilt" quite easily with the default settings. I then changed the speed limit values to allow me to ride without getting to the "back tilt" that quickly. That's when it hit me: the "back tilt" is supposed to be the last warning. I understand that the wheel is supposed to "Beep" or "Vibrate" or "Speak something" at three alarm levels prior to the tilt: I got none of them. Playing with the App, it seems that I can get beeps by turning off the voice, but then it seems that the wheel beeps all the time, so I ended up turning alarms 1 and 2 off and only kept alarm 3 at 35 km/h (since I believe 40 km/h is the max until I get to 200km).

FYI, tiltback and 3rd alarm beeps or voice warnings are all different sensory tools to alert you that you are reaching critical max speed, and that you should decelerate to prevent high speed cutout.

Tiltback will alert you via feel, in situations where you cannot hear the beep/vocal alarms.

 

31 minutes ago, chafouin said:

Also, the "vibrate" option does not seem to do anything. Is the wheel supposed to vibrate or is it the phone? Nothing happens to me. Have other experienced something different?

Never tried the vibrate feature, but it has to be about the phone vibrating, not the wheel.

 

31 minutes ago, chafouin said:

The range control in the apps goes all the way to 60 km/h, what I happen if I set 60? Would the wheel still alert me at 40km/h (or 50km/h after the 200km)?

60 km/h is a red herring. If you try to set any of the sliders to 60 km/h, it'll just prompt a failed save and revert back to your previous settings. (as you can see, Chinese EUC mobile app development is a bit head-scratching)

 

31 minutes ago, chafouin said:

I set the alarm 3 at 35 and the tilt back at 38, but if the wheel is smart and there is no "cut off", then I supposed I could just put 38 and 40 instead? Comments? Have some of you tried? What do you use?

For all my KS wheels, I usually set Alarm 1 & 2 to zero (off), then Alarm 3 & Titlback to max (50km/h for both KS-18L and KS-18S).

Note, unlike Gotway, KS alarms are software set, not based on percentage max power. Plus, King Song is a super conservative EUC company in general when it comes to safety, so your max speeds are well below critical high speed motor cutoff thresholds.

 

31 minutes ago, chafouin said:

Btw, is Darknessbot report's speed supposed to be accurate (with iphone)?

Not sure about DBot, but FWIW, all the 3rd party apps are developed by enthusiasts that sometimes have limited access to the respective wheel (especially new models), so different readings can be off until the developer implements fixes. I would follow the DarknessBot thread for changelog fixes, new features, etc.

 

[Jerome]

I set alarms 1,2 off 3 at 2-3 kmh from maximum speed and tilt-back at maximum speed. I hate stinking beeps and often miss hearing them. I love "Please decelerate". It seems appropriate for the sleek, elegant,  and swift KS18L.

[Dingfelder]

Nice tip about the painter's tape!  I've been using this in lots of places too, like areas of furniture I bump into all the time but don't want to scratch or abrade, or on the plastic impact pads of my protective gloves -- seems everything I touch with them is rough, nothing is smooth!  I wish I'd heard of this stuff years ago.  It's dirt cheap too.

[meepmeepmayer]

Hi. Thanks for the report.

* Do your speakers work? Have you tried to play some music? Maybe this is why you didn't hear alarms?

If not and the speakers work, use the official app to set alarms and see what happens.

You need to find out what's going on there, this is safety relevant. Reliable alarms are important.

* You haven't learned to ride, you've learned to stay on the thing Don't get overconfident now, this is a dangerous phase. One sudden obstacle (like a car cutting you off) and you might do something panicky. So just keep that in the back of your mind, what if you have to brake suddenly, are you ready?

* Likewise, hitting 35 regularly after a few days on the wheel? Don't overdo it. And wear all the protection at these speeds, especially in city traffic.

I always say, one should have a first, inconsequential fall at low speeds to "calibrate" one's intuition about a EUC's inherent instability and how fast one can be on the ground. Would be really bad if that was learned at 30+ kph with the related possible injuries.

Just don't treat the thing like a motorcycle, which is a bit the vibe I got from your post Other than that, what a wonderful way to commute! Happy riding.

[eddiemoy]

Common mistake for new riders learning is to go slow. Balancing while going slow is an advanced skill.  Just like on a bicycle.  It is easier to find balance when going at a good speed, just a little faster than walking.  About 5-6mph.  

You haven’t unlocked your wheel yet so your top speed is 40kmph.  You can set both your third alarm and tiltback at that speed with no worries of a cut off.  With KS it is safe.  No cut off.  They have a lot of safety headroom.  When you unlock at 201km, then you can safely set it at 50km.

You seem to be coming along just fine.  With bigger wheels like the 18”, it is very hard to go slow, by slow I mean in a crowded sidewalk.  Slower than people walking.  Not sure if you would ever need that.  In NYC you do.  

Now that you know you need some speed to learn, try that backwards.  

welcome and good luck.   

[chafouin]

4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

* You haven't learned to ride, you've learned to stay on the thing Don't get overconfident now, this is a dangerous phase. One sudden obstacle (like a car cutting you off) and you might do something panicky. So just keep that in the back of your mind, what if you have to brake suddenly, are you ready?

* Likewise, hitting 35 regularly after a few days on the wheel? Don't overdo it. And wear all the protection at these speeds, especially in city traffic.

I always say, one should have a first, inconsequential fall at low speeds to "calibrate" one's intuition about a EUC's inherent instability and how fast one can be on the ground. Would be really bad if that was learned at 30+ kph with the related possible injuries.

Just don't treat the thing like a motorcycle, which is a bit the vibe I got from your post Other than that, what a wonderful way to commute! Happy riding.

3

I ride safely (with all the protective gears, except for a full helmet that has yet to be received (using my bicycle one for now)). I watched @eddiemoy's videos and that was a great advertisement for the TSG - Pass Pro Carbon, and went for it. I just hate putting knee pads, they always seem to be the least convenient gears to put on. (still wearing them) 

30+km/h is reached way to quickly for sure, and Chicago's streets are full of imperfections due to the tough winters here... On some patches, I ride like a Mogul Skier if you know what I mean. I am thankful for the wheel grip and can't wait for @Jason McNeil to provide bigger pedals for KS wheels. I actually wonder if the pedals (once at the right size) could benefit from an 1" high (~2.54cm) border surrounding the top half of the foot. (I suppose once you are used to a flat pedal, you may think it's a terrible idea)

 

I am the only person to apparently ride to the Loop (Chicago's business district): for sure I am a great advertisement for this type of devices (I should rent my body space for advertisement spots...)
 

24 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Common mistake for new riders learning is to go slow. Balancing while going slow is an advanced skill.  Just like on a bicycle.  It is easier to find balance when going at a good speed, just a little faster than walking.  About 5-6mph.  

You haven’t unlocked your wheel yet so your top speed is 40kmph.  You can set both your third alarm and tiltback at that speed with no worries of a cut off.  With KS it is safe.  No cut off.  They have a lot of safety headroom.  When you unlock at 201km, then you can safely set it at 50km.

You seem to be coming along just fine.  With bigger wheels like the 18”, it is very hard to go slow, by slow I mean in a crowded sidewalk.  Slower than people walking.  Not sure if you would ever need that.  In NYC you do.  

Now that you know you need some speed to learn, try that backwards.  

welcome and good luck.   

I have a 5yrs son who wants to race against me while I am on the unicycle... So I practiced low speed very early ( I mean I have to let him win...)
I actually do "tiny" and very quick left/right foot pressures to keep the engine providing tiny pushes: it's almost standing still, but keeps me from putting my feet down. It's like standing on a bike while waiting at a light and trying to avoid putting your feet down.

 

8 hours ago, Jerome said:

I set alarms 1,2 off 3 at 2-3 kmh from maximum speed and tilt-back at maximum speed. I hate stinking beeps and often miss hearing them. I love "Please decelerate". It seems appropriate for the sleek, elegant,  and swift KS18L.

What would be great is to have phone's alarm: a sound or voice in my earbuds would be more efficient than a sound or voice from the wheel. (the "Vibrate" setting did not do anything to me, but maybe I overlooked it, I'll check again)

 

5 hours ago, Dingfelder said:

Nice tip about the painter's tape!  I've been using this in lots of places too, like areas of furniture I bump into all the time but don't want to scratch or abrade, or on the plastic impact pads of my protective gloves -- seems everything I touch with them is rough, nothing is smooth!  I wish I'd heard of this stuff years ago.  It's dirt cheap too.

Yeah, I took all the protections off already and had absolutely no glue residue !!

 

9 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Not sure about DBot, but FWIW, all the 3rd party apps are developed by enthusiasts that sometimes have limited access to the respective wheel (especially new models), so different readings can be off until the developer implements fixes. I would follow the DarknessBot thread for changelog fixes, new features, etc.

1

Thanks for the link, I am looking for an easy way to have wheel's feedback. Apparently, I read that peeble and Android work great together. I have an iPhone, not sure if there is an app supporting the Apple watch or other connected watches.

[eddiemoy]

34 minutes ago, chafouin said:

I have a 5yrs son who wants to race against me while I am on the unicycle... So I practiced low speed very early ( I mean I have to let him win...)
I actually do "tiny" and very quick left/right foot pressures to keep the engine providing tiny pushes: it's almost standing still, but keeps me from putting my feet down. It's like standing on a bike while waiting at a light and trying to avoid putting your feet down.

To go slow, you can't use the same technique as going fast.  You can't do the foot pressure left and right to keep from falling over.  What you need to do is remember back to when you are riding a bike and you want to stay still what do you do?  you twist the front wheel left and right.  you need to do the same thing here, but again, it is difficult to do on the 18L.  It is very easy to do on the 16" and even easier to do on the 14".  

I really mean to do a tutorial on going slow, but haven't gotten around to it.  I've not seen any videos teaching you how to go slow and I learned the hard way using the wrong technique in the beginning. 

[Siggy]

Great review of KS18L! 

Look forward to hearing more exploits. 

Am a proud KS18L owner myself and although I’ve had some handle problems - and may have to send the unit for service - I still would not trade it for anything else. 

It just ticks all the boxes for me personally. 

 

Welcome me to the forum

[houseofjob]

3 hours ago, chafouin said:

Thanks for the link, I am looking for an easy way to have wheel's feedback. Apparently, I read that peeble and Android work great together. I have an iPhone, not sure if there is an app supporting the Apple watch or other connected watches.

Both DarknessBot & Gyrometric (another 3rd party EUC app) have companion Apple Watch apps, but not sure if Gyrometric supports the KS-18L, as development seems much slower for this app then DB.

[US69]

26 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

but not sure if Gyrometric supports the KS-18L, as development seems much slower for this app then DB.

As far as i know Gyrometrics support-developing has stopped nearly a year ago (Edit: 10months)…...

[US69]

14 hours ago, chafouin said:

The range control in the apps goes all the way to 60 km/h, what I happen if I set 60? Would the wheel still alert me at 40km/h (or 50km/h after the 200km)?
I set the alarm 3 at 35 and the tilt back at 38, but if the wheel is smart and there is no "cut off", then I supposed I could just put 38 and 40 instead? Comments? Have some of you tried? What do you use?

As Long as you have not come over 200km, you are not able to set the Alarms higher than 40kmh. Once you reached 200km you can set it to max 50km....Dont worry...no cutoff will happen.

In reality the Wheel can do About 60-65kmh, but KS Always implements a high safety margin. Aaah, and Nope, you will not be able to set Alarms higher than 50...the app will not let you.

 

As you are a -relative- newbie rider i would have just one tip for going faster:

Just take your time and get more experienced to the Wheel before you go higher than lets say 30-35kmh....

On higher Speeds  a good amount of experience is needed, otherwise you may experience high Speed wobbles, and those can be dangerous and lead to a fall.

So just take your time :-) EUC driving is, at least in my view, not meant for crazy high Speeds...it is the crusing apeal that get us all addicted :-)

Other than that:

Welcome to EUC world! 

[euni]

I just got my 18L a month ago.  I am unable to pair up with my phone (android 8.0).

I used the Kingsong and WheelLog apps.  None of them can connect the 18L.  My phone's bluetooth cannot pair with the 18L either.

What app are you using?

[Cumulus Libre]

mine is working fine, I have no issues, I use the Kingsong app, bluetooth on my samsung android phone.. 

can you see the KS18L in your kingsong app if you search for available devices? 

 

[Gadgetfann]

Your learning experience was very similar to mine, except I wasn’t smart enough to guard my wheel on my first few days of riding and dropped it a few times.  Scratches were in the exact same spot on both sides, so I simply shaped some carbon fiber 3M car wrap to fit the area to cover them up.  

[Tangalang]

Hey @chafouin! I've been riding around in the loop too. I'm on a ks14d looking to upgrade to a ks18l. The ks14d is a great starter wheel but I'm wanting more speed and range. Thanks for the review.

[chafouin]

On 10/5/2018 at 8:57 PM, Tangalang said:

Hey @chafouin! I've been riding around in the loop too. I'm on a ks14d looking to upgrade to a ks18l. The ks14d is a great starter wheel but I'm wanting more speed and range. Thanks for the review.

Awesome to hear from another Chicagoan.

If you want to meet and give my 18L a try, let me know (PM me)

[chafouin]

On 10/4/2018 at 4:27 PM, Gadgetfann said:

Your learning experience was very similar to mine, except I wasn’t smart enough to guard my wheel on my first few days of riding and dropped it a few times.  Scratches were in the exact same spot on both sides, so I simply shaped some carbon fiber 3M car wrap to fit the area to cover them up.  

Looks like Kingsong resells parts, so you could still the scratch parts in few months if needed.

[Tangalang]

@chafouin I'll take you up on the offer. I don't think I can pm yet. I'm fairly new to this forum. Let me know when you want to meet up!

[yourtoys7]

@chafouin welcome and it is always good to hear someones start, thats quite a wheel to start. It is cheaper in the long run, I started with mcm3 14", than acm 16" and now 18"

My brother in law just got one KingSong 16S from ewheels, cant wait to see him learn.