My Z10 Review

[Jdestef]

Not all peaches and cream.... feedback welcome.  

 

[litewave]

Good, honest, unscripted review. As a longtime NB1E+ rider, I really appreciate your perspective and look forward to any follow-up videos you make. I also question the practicality of this wheel for someone who relies on an EUC for, well, everything. Also, thanks to NBUS (and the Chinese mothership), I've lost enthusiasm for the Z10 and have decided to just wait. Maybe an aftermarket tire will come out that transforms the wheel. Maybe Rockwheel will make a worthy successor to the GT16. Until then, 15mph will just have to do.

[Jdestef]

@litewave get a KS18L and let me know how you like it.   Ewheels may be able to get you one.

 

[litewave]

1 hour ago, Jdestef said:

@litewave get a KS18L and let me know how you like it.   Ewheels may be able to get you one.

 

lol thanks, but I can't see me hoisting one into a shopping cart at Whole Foods and having much room for groceries. Also, the 18L looks a little homely to me.... 

[Philfree]

Have you try different tyre pressure ? Perhaps your wheel is too much inflated ?

[Jdestef]

6 hours ago, Philfree said:

Have you try different tyre pressure ? Perhaps your wheel is too much inflated ?

It came with a lot of pressure and I've been slowly letting more and more out to see how it affects handling. Handling at medium to high speeds is unaffected. Low pressure really only changes low speed handling imo.

[Daniel Burkemper]

I will say that I also have many negatives with this wheel, but you’re not being completely fair in your analysis. 

I have owned 3 NB1E+ and 1 NB1S1 (modded 18mph 10m range). We are nearly the same in weight and build (135-140lbs)

Biggest complaint is loss of enjoyability of ride and handling make it just less comfortable. I loved the aestetic of the 4in tubeless, but also think it is the biggest factor in making it a more difficult wheel. I think even a 3in tube tire like the Gotway MSX would have made for a great ride. I have never owned another brand, but I am basing this off reviews. 

I also disagree with people who say that the Z10 has better low speed handling because minor adjustments are more difficult. I was so in tune with my other Ninebots that I could easily go slower than walking pace and feel confident in my wheel control.

I have a few issues with your review:

I don’t remember you saying how much you have ridin the wheel. I have had over 100miles already and still am trying to get used the to the handling. I also put on the pads first thing and haven’t looked back once. That is one of those comfort vs aesetic things, and since you are concerned so much about comfort, you can only give a fair review if you use the PROVIDED leg cushioning. Also, the trolley handle is to help compensate for the weight, so if weight is an issue, the trolley is also a must. I too dread the lifting into the car compared to my other wheels, so I agree with you on the insane weight. I also very much agree on the power button issue as well.

I think the BIGGEST downside of the Z10 is this though: 

You cannot easily switch between it and older Ninebots. Once you get used to the Z10 handling, riding the S1 or E+ is not the same. the years I spent mastering these wheels have to be relearned and overall confidence level is lowered. I can see usage cases for both wheels, but this borderline dangerous transition between them is very negative, because it is far from a seamless transition. 

I am glad you’ve highlighted some of the negatives about this wheel, but I too will reserve final judgements until I get many more miles on this wheel. After 400+ more miles if my opinion doesn’t change, I MAY feel happier going back to my S1 18mph ride for a more casual ride. I did find that the 10mile modded range was a big downside with it, however. I don’t ride my E+ anymore because the speed seems so slow to me after 18-26mph rides.

[Marcglider]

25 minutes ago, Daniel Burkemper said:

I am glad you’ve highlighted some of the negatives about this wheel, but I too will reserve final judgements until I get many more miles on this wheel.

Glad to see this part of your post... I got my Z yesterday, I put 30 miles on it... it definitely is a different animal, and going back on my other wheels makes me feel like I never rode before... that being said, I am looking forward to the challenge of mastering all my wheels and being able to switch back and forth at will, this will take time and developing different muscle memory which is a challenge I am ready to deal with... maybe some people use their wheels for commuting or what I will call "business", for me it is a hobby and challenges are the best way to avoid boredom and keep things a bit exciting, at least for me. 

I fly hang gliders, some days are stellar and I get great flights, some days I just suck and/or the conditions are not great... If I try, even a shitty flight that ends with me unhurt and my glider in 1 piece is a good day and a learning opportunity... 

Keep at it, you may just Love this wheel after a while, I think I may as well... 

[Jdestef]

@Daniel Burkemper. Thanks for the feedback. I have just over 50 miles on it now and still working on new handling strategies.  

As far as using the pads, I'm still considering putting them on. I see them as a permanent attachment since taking them off would leave an ugly Velcro strip that would likely be uncomfortable in itself.  IMHO ninebot should have just made the top padded areas out of thicker padding. 

[Daniel Burkemper]

2 minutes ago, Jdestef said:

@Daniel Burkemper. Thanks for the feedback. I have just over 50 miles on it now and still working on new handling strategies.  

As far as using the pads, I'm still considering putting them on. I see them as a permanent attachment since taking them off would leave an ugly Velcro strip that would likely be uncomfortable in itself.  IMHO ninebot should have just made the top padded areas out of thicker padding. 

My opinion is that the pad should have just been built in and soft to begin with. I know many of the people who are gaga over the aestetics of the naked wheel will disagree. Also, I don’t know if you got different mounting pads or didn’t mess with them enough, but they are not velcro. Mine are just a strong double-sided adhesive. They don’t stick the best, so I used some Gorilla tape double sided and a little glue. You might not like the idea of ‘modifying’ the wheel this much, but I often use the method of pushing against the wheel to turn; I could only imagine the feeling without the cushion support. 

[Ziiten]

12 hours ago, Daniel Burkemper said:

My opinion is that the pad should have just been built in and soft to begin with. I know many of the people who are gaga over the aestetics of the naked wheel will disagree. Also, I don’t know if you got different mounting pads or didn’t mess with them enough, but they are not velcro. Mine are just a strong double-sided adhesive. They don’t stick the best, so I used some Gorilla tape double sided and a little glue. You might not like the idea of ‘modifying’ the wheel this much, but I often use the method of pushing against the wheel to turn; I could only imagine the feeling without the cushion support. 

I don't have velcro either, just poorly sticking double sided tape. Also, the lower padding is already torn from all the hits the wheel has taken (wonder if new ones could be got somewhere). As for looks, I think the padding is ok, makes the wheel look more bat-mobile. I agree with the power button issue; I keep constantly powering off the vehicle - once I did not notice it being off and tried to take off with a predictable outcome.

[Toshio Uemura]

23 hours ago, Daniel Burkemper said:

I don’t ride my E+ anymore because the speed seems so slow to me after 18-26mph rides.

Re-discovering that slowness is a virtue not a vice that’s one thing the E+ can teach you. Don’t give up on it that easily. It is still one of my favorite wheels for a slow Sunday morning walk in the park and to introduce this hobby to children. Racing around with 40+ km/h on the Tesla and the Z10 like an adrenaline junky is great fun and very, very addictive. The E+ is the antidote!

Slowness is a virtue not a vice. In time you will rediscover your E+ for yourself.

[Daniel Burkemper]

I have always used my spare E+ for beginners. Had my friends and cousins learn to ride. 

I don’t see myself going back to the E+ since my S1 is my lightweight, slightly faster and more maneuverable wheel. It is good for legal air travel and casual rides under 10 miles. Honestly though, we will see when I get over the intial Z10 awe.

[Toshio Uemura]

5 minutes ago, Daniel Burkemper said:

Honestly though, we will see when I get over the intial Z10 awe.

That might take a while ... if not an eternity ... or even foreverlong. ? 

[Glitched]

I'm afraid I'm going to end up in the same direction as you guys are describing here with having a lighter wheel as backup. Except for me, it's brought on by my V10F order. The z10 and v10f are both quite heavy, so I'm afraid it will be a bit unwieldy taking the v10f around for practical purposes, even with the trolley handle. But then my 32lb firewheel f260 doesn't have a trolley handle and can't be retrofitted, so I'll need a new 'light' wheel like the E+, v8, ks14d, s1, etc..... my little apartment doesn't have room for all these wheels I foresee in my life.  

[Toshio Uemura]

On 9/4/2018 at 3:22 AM, Glitched said:

I'm afraid I'm going to end up in the same direction as you guys are describing here with having a lighter wheel as backup. Except for me, it's brought on by my V10F order. The z10 and v10f are both quite heavy, so I'm afraid it will be a bit unwieldy taking the v10f around for practical purposes, even with the trolley handle. But then my 32lb firewheel f260 doesn't have a trolley handle and can't be retrofitted, so I'll need a new 'light' wheel like the E+, v8, ks14d, s1, etc..... my little apartment doesn't have room for all these wheels I foresee in my life.  

Have you gotten your Z10 already?

I wonder why everybody is bitching around about the weight of the Z. To me it has only advantages. Once you get used to it, it almost replaces the gym. I have grown quite some muscle from carrying my Z around and lifting it in and out of my car. And when you ride in the city you can leave it in front of stores or put it in a coin locker, while doing your shopping. Nobody will steel it. At least here in Japan! So I don’t need a trolley handle nor a 2nd lighter wheel. It’s just a matter of positive thinking! ? 

[Marty Backe]

17 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said:

Have you gotten your Z10 already?

I wonder why everybody is bitching around about the weight of the Z. To me it has only advantages. Once you get used to it, it almost replaces the gym. I have grown quite some muscle from carrying my Z around and lifting it in and out of my car. And when you ride in the city you can leave it in front of stores or put it in a coin locker, while doing your shopping. Nobody will steel it. At least here in Japan! So I don’t need a trolley handle nor a 2nd lighter wheel. It’s just a matter of positive thinking! ? 

I agree. I really don't care how heavy my wheels are. I rarely have to lift them.

[Marty Backe]

 

On 9/2/2018 at 11:59 AM, Marcglider said:

Glad to see this part of your post... I got my Z yesterday, I put 30 miles on it... it definitely is a different animal, and going back on my other wheels makes me feel like I never rode before... that being said, I am looking forward to the challenge of mastering all my wheels and being able to switch back and forth at will, this will take time and developing different muscle memory which is a challenge I am ready to deal with... maybe some people use their wheels for commuting or what I will call "business", for me it is a hobby and challenges are the best way to avoid boredom and keep things a bit exciting, at least for me. 

I fly hang gliders, some days are stellar and I get great flights, some days I just suck and/or the conditions are not great... If I try, even a shitty flight that ends with me unhurt and my glider in 1 piece is a good day and a learning opportunity... 

Keep at it, you may just Love this wheel after a while, I think I may as well... 

One advantage to having lots of wheels is that you get really good at switching between wheels without having to think about it. If 100-percent of my riding was on one wheel and than I acquired a totally different wheel, that wheel would feel very strange and probably take a long time to adjust to.

I'm so used to such a wide variety of wheels, I can switch to a new wheel rather quickly.

The Z10 handles very much like the Monster and Mten3, so the Z10 felt very natural to me and took almost no time to adjust to.

[Toshio Uemura]

6 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I rarely have to lift the.

That’s the right understanding of this hobby! It’s about riding not about trolleying or carrying. 

And the others who prefer trolleying their e-horses around, might be cheaper off buying baby cars instead. ?

[MetricUSA]

They must have made the rim out of steel, I think most others are made out of aluminum, is why you get majority of the heaviness!

[Marty Backe]

Interesting perspective. I think your review was premature, if I understand correctly that you've only ridden it ~50-miles. Depending on your experience with a variety of wheels, I think you should have a few hundred miles under your belt before offering a review.

I would consider this video a "first look" video, not a review. If you choose to create another video after you've "become one" with this wheel, I would be interested in hearing your perspective than, and if you agree with what you've said here.

Also, it's generally not very useful to compare wheels from different categories. The Z10 (18-inch, heavy wheel) will never accelerate and handle like a 14 or 16 inch wheel.

You've jumped from beginner class wheels to a performance 18-inch wheel and you have no performance wheel perspective to judge it against. Now this in itself makes your review useful to other people in similar situations, but other people with a broader perspective should keep that in mind as they listen to what you say.

I'm beginning to think that this wheel might not be the best choice for lighter weight guys. The bounciness of the wheel and difficulty in going fast, along with higher speed turning, I think can all be attributed to your lighter weight.

I do hope that you do another video like this after a few hundred miles. And re-watch this video first and let us know what, if anything, you feel that you got wrong.

I did enjoy seeing your perspective.

[Ziiten]

5 hours ago, Toshio Uemura said:

Have you gotten your Z10 already?

I wonder why everybody is bitching around about the weight of the Z. To me it has only advantages. Once you get used to it, it almost replaces the gym. I have grown quite some muscle from carrying my Z around and lifting it in and out of my car. And when you ride in the city you can leave it in front of stores or put it in a coin locker, while doing your shopping. Nobody will steel it. At least here in Japan! So I don’t need a trolley handle nor a 2nd lighter wheel. It’s just a matter of positive thinking! ? 

I read typhoon Jebi is blowing over Japan. Good to have a heavy wheel in those conditions and not get blown away so easily. Although in those car throwing wind speeds it probably won't make much difference how heavy wheel you have.

[Toshio Uemura]

6 hours ago, Ziiten said:

I read typhoon Jebi is blowing over Japan. Good to have a heavy wheel in those conditions and not get blown away so easily. Although in those car throwing wind speeds it probably won't make much difference how heavy wheel you have.

Yes, yesterday’s Typhoon was no fun. It knocked out our Kansai Int. Airport for a while and did a lot of damage. I chained myself to my Z10, so I wasn’t blown away. I am happy it is so heavy. Saved my life! ? 

[Toshio Uemura]

9 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm beginning to think that this wheel might not be the best choice for lighter weight guys. The bounciness of the wheel and difficulty in going fast, along with higher speed turning, I think can all be attributed to your lighter weight.

Sorry! I am the fly-weight here and I don’t agree. I don’t find the Z bouncy at all, I have no difficulties going fast with it and high speed turns (once you have learned to keep the wheel upright and lean into to the turn motorbike-style) are even easier and feel safer as with any other wheel I know. It is just a matter of technique, a different technique. And most new Z10 owners here are still at the beginning of their learning curves. We talk again, once everybody has got their first 1.000 km on their Z’s. ?

I believe the complete beginner, who learns to ride an EUC with the Z might even have less difficulties, because he hasn’t acquired techniques that work fine with all other EUCs but don’t work well with the Z. And we be reading more and more reports from riders, who can’t ride their previous EUCs anymore after having ridden the Z for a couple of 100 km/miles.

[US69]

11 hours ago, MetricUSA said:

They must have made the rim out of steel, I think most others are made out of aluminum, is why you get majority of the heaviness!

I would say it is mostly as they must have a massive heatsink, and much more copper in the Wheel/Motor itself, as because of the much lower Volts they have to deal with more amps = more heat...

Also  the wider rim for a 4,1 Inch tire is logically much more heavy than one for a 2,5 Inch tire.

For me weight is also no Problem. All Performance wheels are over 20-21kg, as they Need much batterys and have a powerful Motor,  and as Long as a trolley is available and you can roll them beside you, everything is fine (for me).

EUCs are meant to be driven, not to carry them around :-)