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Z10 Milage

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You sure its a Z10 battery ? :)

You had a look inside to check ?

39km is what I do with my Z6 in Paris with a fair weather and my 70kg weight

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I can reliably get 30 miles from my Z10 before things get into the below 40% ballpark, and I commute up and down several hills; however, 8C is right around the threshold where one would expect decreased performance out of the battery. I’d suggest maintaining logs of rides you do in cool/cold weather and compare them to when you ride in 12C+ weather.

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10 hours ago, cg said:

Ohh well, here I am again... Anybody has experience with the Z10 in climate and wind like Denmark, today charged to 58.1V (99% in NB app, but probably a bit lower)... after 39.0km I was asked to step off and walk by Z10. it was only a couple of hundred meters I was missing.

I just don't understand why you have so much more range, my batteries seems to charge plenty of power? could it be inefficient motor? Tomorrow I have to taking my car since I would first have a 37km, then 5 hours later another 37km, and then two hours later 17km, the 5 hours make it not possible to charge enough, (or perhaps with two chargers, gonna do my first double charging today:) )

Anyway, the question is actually what the experience from Z10 riding distance in similar conditions as Denmark (flat, fairly windy, and arround ~8degress celcuis) ? I do ride nearly as fast as possible, on gravel and wind... Ohh well guess I will just dream about more energy...

I just rode my Z10 for 25-miles, very fast, and I had ~25% left. I you ride "as fast as possible, on gravel and wind", it does not surprise me that you get 39km. This would be true of any 1000wh wheel, not just the Z10.

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On 9/30/2018 at 7:45 PM, Vanzen said:

You sure its a Z10 battery ? :)

You had a look inside to check ?

39km is what I do with my Z6 in Paris with a fair weather and my 70kg weight

pretty sure, it also charges around ~800Wh from 10%, I also did have longer rides ~44km, but not longer than that before running out of battery.

On 9/30/2018 at 8:15 PM, JBoo said:

I can reliably get 30 miles from my Z10 before things get into the below 40% ballpark, and I commute up and down several hills; however, 8C is right around the threshold where one would expect decreased performance out of the battery. I’d suggest maintaining logs of rides you do in cool/cold weather and compare them to when you ride in 12C+ weather.

I am keeping an eye to this, but 30miles to 40% sounds really impressive!, what speed are you riding? any winds??

17 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I just rode my Z10 for 25-miles, very fast, and I had ~25% left. I you ride "as fast as possible, on gravel and wind", it does not surprise me that you get 39km. This would be true of any 1000wh wheel, not just the Z10.

yeah, that seems comparable to what I get, I should probably ride a bit more easy when commuting long, and save fast for weekends

 

Hopefully batteries will be more powerfull next year ;).... but ofcourse, if speed goes up, so goes power consumption exponentially I guess.

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14 minutes ago, cg said:

Hopefully batteries will be more powerfull next year ;).... but ofcourse, if speed goes up, so goes power consumption exponentially I guess.

Most probably they will not get mich better...we dont see any progress on cells since about 3—4 years now.

Unfortunatly Ninebot is not using the best range cells that most competitors do, which would be the 3500 mah Sanyo or LG...

The just use a 3200mah cell. With the other one, 3500mah, the Watthour on the 9b system would be 1090wh instead of 995wh.

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1 minute ago, US69 said:

Most probably they will not get mich better...we dont see any progress on cells since about 3—4 years now.

Unfortunatly Ninebot is not using the best range cells that most competitors do, which would be the 3500 mah Sanyo or LG...

The just use a 3200mah cell. With the other one, 3500mah, the Watthour on the 9b system would be 1090wh instead of 995wh.

Hopefully! but yes, I know, batteries are not digital

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1 hour ago, US69 said:

Most probably they will not get mich better...we dont see any progress on cells since about 3—4 years now.

Unfortunatly Ninebot is not using the best range cells that most competitors do, which would be the 3500 mah Sanyo or LG...

The just use a 3200mah cell. With the other one, 3500mah, the Watthour on the 9b system would be 1090wh instead of 995wh.

True for next year, but I hope we have better batteries in 5 to 10 years.

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On 10/2/2018 at 1:27 AM, Marty Backe said:

True for next year, but I hope we have better batteries in 5 to 10 years.

On average in recent years there is 7% capacity increase / year.  In a year or two, or if there will be some dead Z10 battery packs available - guys from 1RadWerkstatt or other places will probably offer replacement of the old 3200mAh cells into new 3500 - 3800 mAh cells... Of course we have no idea how development of new wheel will go - maybe instead of 18650  producers will adapt 20700 or 21700 (Tesla) standard which offer higher capacities ...  

Edited by Lukasz

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On 10/1/2018 at 11:14 PM, US69 said:

Most probably they will not get mich better...we dont see any progress on cells since about 3—4 years now.

Unfortunatly Ninebot is not using the best range cells that most competitors do, which would be the 3500 mah Sanyo or LG...

The just use a 3200mah cell. With the other one, 3500mah, the Watthour on the 9b system would be 1090wh instead of 995wh.

They are using the best cells for their design as they use lower voltage design with higher current. The 3200mAh LG HG2 cells are 20A output whereas the 3500mAh LG MJ1 cells are 10A rated. High current cells tend to have a lower capacity rating than cells with lower current rating. If I were to take a guess at why they went for a higher current / lower voltage design instead of lower current / higher voltage design (ala. Gotway) it could be to flatten out the power curve as the battery voltage drops at a slower rate in a lower voltage / higher current design. I'm not an electrical engineer, so take that with a pinch of salt. :smartass:

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21 hours ago, Nic said:

They are using the best cells for their design as they use lower voltage design with higher current. The 3200mAh LG HG2 cells are 20A output whereas the 3500mAh LG MJ1 cells are 10A rated. High current cells tend to have a lower capacity rating than cells with lower current rating. If I were to take a guess at why they went for a higher current / lower voltage design instead of lower current / higher voltage design (ala. Gotway) it could be to flatten out the power curve as the battery voltage drops at a slower rate in a lower voltage / higher current design. I'm not an electrical engineer, so take that with a pinch of salt. :smartass:

10A*84 batteries*40V=33600W, that seems like sufficient power. Is my math wrong?

Edited by cg

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1 hour ago, cg said:

10A*84 batteries*40V=33600W, that seems like sufficient power. Is my math wrong?

Yes:efee47c9c8: But the result is sufficient anyways.

You only get 10A or 20A or whatever per serial cell block, of which there are 6. Not per cell, unfortuately.

So 6 blocks of 14 cells * 20A per block * 58.8V (14*4.2V) = 7056W maximum nominal output power (at full battery, going down to 5376W when the battery is empty).

(Alternatively 6*14 cells * 20A per cell * 4.2V per cell = 7056W, the voltage has to match the number of things you count, individual cells or serial blocks of cells.)

Half of that (10A-rated cells) is 3500W (2500+W at empty battery) which is going to be around the maximum voltage of the motor (certainly can't be output continuously without the motor overheating). So from this calculation, there's no advantage to using 20A-rated cells instead of having a bigger battery size, in terms of max power output. Especially since the 10A-rated cells can output more current (20A) for a short time, should it really be needed.

For comparison: msuper X 5040W nominal possible output at full battery (3840 at empty battery), twice that when stressing the cells.

So it doesn't really matter because anything above 2500W output won't be sustained for very long anyways, due to motor overheating limitations (and all the other electronics as well).

But maybe the 3200mAh cells are indeed better at low voltages, so power output at low battery is more consistent?

--

I'd guess the reason for their battery cell choice is less technical and more about what was and is available for what price. Batteries are in high demand. Might also be simply historical. Gotway and KingSong always use 3500mAh and 2900mAh cells, Inmotion like 3250mAh, not sure what the old Ninebots used and other non-EUC Ninebot ridables use, but maybe they have a thing for 3200mAh.

Edited by meepmeepmayer
expanded

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Good God can we get anyone that owns these wheels to do only 25 km/h for the whole distance??? To see the range test ? I don't think it's possible...?‍♂️??

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1 hour ago, MetricUSA said:

Good God can we get anyone that owns these wheels to do only 25 km/h for the whole distance??? To see the range test ? I don't think it's possible...?‍♂️??

I have. Part of my range testing that I do. 42-miles. See the video here. See my Z10 Playlist for more.

 

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Did 38 miles on mostly flat bike path today and  both batteries still have 41% charge at the end. I think it was mostly from my recent weight loss; down to 168lbs from 170lbs ? and going at painfully slow 8mph ?

I think it’s possible to get 50-60 miles on a charge with the Z10, but the caveat is you can’t go faster than 8mph

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