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mcsmiley

KS 16s first crash

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I bought a brand new Ninebot One E+, and with only 37 Kilometers battery failed twice and as a result a shoulder Fracture. After first cut off, got in touch with seller and told me to recharge the battery ,that lithium ion had to be recharged several cycles ,for having an acceptable capacity ?? I did it , and the second cut off came, with terrible results !! Users need more information , and think sellers hide the truth !! I am now learning from this forum , I loved my wheel , but it seems to be very dangerous , as I now am realizing that they fail more than what I supposed !! I did all the tutorials I found on Youtube , and didn't have any disgusting incident !! Until the cut's off suddenly took place , with terrible results !! Thank you all for all the knowledge I am getting from the forum and thanks for your cooperation !! Fernando Ll.

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On 6/8/2019 at 9:51 PM, gr8ps said:

I've experienced the violent tilt back many times. For me, the tilt forward when I aggressively lean in is a lot scarier than the tilt-back - I have a split second where I fear that the wheel won't be able to keep me upright and the tilt-back almost comes as a relief that it didn't. When it tilts back, the wheel doesn't really shoot ahead of me, I just rotate my ankle backwards.

If your wheel doesn't shoot ahead of you then you haven't experienced violent tilt back.  Without the shooting ahead its not violent, its just tilt back.  Any one who has actually experienced violent tilt back would never experience it many times because it is too f.ing scary to go anywhere near it again; unless one is incapable of learning (not something I am suggesting about you) seeing as more than 50% of the time it results in a butt plant at speed or some other type of crash (but not particularly a face plant because of the nature of the wheel's movement)

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1 hour ago, Smoother said:

If your wheel doesn't shoot ahead of you then you haven't experienced violent tilt back.  Without the shooting ahead its not violent, its just tilt back.  Any one who has actually experienced violent tilt back would never experience it many times because it is too f.ing scary to go anywhere near it again; unless one is incapable of learning (not something I am suggesting about you) seeing as more than 50% of the time it results in a butt plant at speed or some other type of crash (but not particularly a face plant because of the nature of the wheel's movement)

Heh, that could very well be why I don't think tilt-backs are a big deal then. I get regular tilt backs all the time due to riding the beep, those aren't a big deal. I get what I perceive are violent ones when I accelerate too aggressively. What happens in these cases is that the pedal dips forward more than usual and rotates back in a short amount of time, less than half a second. Come to think of it, it's probably because I ride in intermediate mode because I like some squishiness when I brake. 

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Thanks you for sharing your thoughts.

I hope I am following the rules of this forum and continuing with a couple of more questions. Please let me know.

I will aim for cruising in 90% of the wheels power in the future. I will copy paste a post I did today (conversation on youtube)  which has a few questions and more explanation. Maybe you'd have any recommendations .

"I did a heavy acceleration and pushed the tilt back, the crash was during tilt back, also in addition to that... it was during a small uphill (incline going up). So I guess it is normal?  

I’ve read is that others who have upgraded firmware have had to Recalibrate the wheels after. My first upgrade to 1.08 was apparently not successful since it did an upgrade again (same day as the crash). Now, today, I’ve upgraded to v 1.09 and have done a recalibration. In one or two weeks I will try to give it a careful test if I’m not afraid of this wheel... I think I will be ok. In the near future, I will want to upgrade to a wheel with more power so I don’t reach top speed. Now I’ve set the warning on 27km/h. 16” is tempting since it is easier if I’d have to have it with me in a bus or train(even if I like the idea of a 18xl). Would the ks16s be enough or should I be needing the 16X?

One question, for example... let’s say I’d put the tilt back to 20km/h and push it very hard at 20, would it die on me again due to pushing the limit of the tilt back or is it only when going pass the 30km/h which is top speed for my ks14s? Of course I will never push it during tilt back again but it is worth knowing the main cause.

Best regards

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It won't die on you with a manual tiltback. It's just gonna be very annoying, but not deadly. :-)

So don't worry about it.

But is tiltback necessary? Maybe just set up an audible alarm and decelerate without being forced to do that?

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37 minutes ago, Azze80 said:

One question, for example... let’s say I’d put the tilt back to 20km/h and push it very hard at 20, would it die on me again due to pushing the limit of the tilt back or is it only when going pass the 30km/h which is top speed for my ks14s? 

I don't know the specifics of this wheel, but with all likelihood the tiltback does not change how hard you can push at 20km/h (and it doesn't change how hard you can push at 30km/h either). I suspect that if you "push very hard" at 20km/h you can still outlean the ks14 either way.

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In your opinion , wich will be the more reliable wheel ?, or depending the conditions all of them will cut the power, resulting in accident , with more or less luck ?? I was thinking in buying a new one , but don't want to run any more risks, or only acceptable ones !! Which will be the most trustable wheel or the best technically or the more advanced one in engineering terms ? Thanks for your answers. Fernando.

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@atdlzpae, completely right, it would be sufficient with only the audible alarm. My question is only for understanding the wheel, different factors give different results. Also, I think I am overthinking this :). Just stay to the limit and I'll be fine. Thanks!

 

@Mono , I think I've learned something here then, it could be possible that I've then over leaned the wheel during incline since it shouldn't matter how hard I push the tilt-back? By saying "pushing hard on the tilt back " I mean really withstanding it and almost going up on the toes while the process is ongoing. (maybe exaggerate a bit). 

When do over leaning occur ? Is that measurable?

Sorry for all the bad questions here but I've gained tons of knowledge here, many thanks again! 

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1 hour ago, Azze80 said:

When do over leaning occur ? Is that measurable?

Yes. Manufacturers could also implement in firmware to start a tiltback/alarm before an overlean.

The data logged by wheellog is unrortionately a bit to coarse

 

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I've hit the "violent" tilt-back on a couple of occasions with the KS16S, it has happened when I've accelerated really fast to the tilt-back speed, ie. the first warning just starts to play and the tilt-back hits pretty much immediately, but that's my own fault, and nowadays I rarely accelerate that fast. Compared to slowly accelerating to the final warning and then tilt-back, it's really different. Never crashed due to it, but the "floaty" feeling it gives when the pedals suddenly "give in" under you and the wheel is moving at least a little bit in front of you is very unnerving, and involuntary tensing up when it happens unexpectedly makes it even worse. I've kept my warnings at 30-32-34-35 (tiltback) pretty much from the start, and usually keep at the "edge" of the first warning. Don't know if the behavior changes in newer firmware versions, never updated mine from v1.00.

There could be ways to make it "softer", but at least in my cases, I've accelerated so fast that if the tilt-back was slower, the speed would have probably gotten so high, that even more acceleration required by the tilt-back could be too much for the batteries/motor to handle (I suspect that at high enough speed, the motor back-EMF would rise so high that the battery voltage wouldn't be enough to keep accelerating, and would instead start braking due to regeneration occurring), and the result would be a face plant.

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On 6/11/2019 at 7:05 PM, esaj said:

There could be ways to make it "softer", but at least in my cases, I've accelerated so fast that if the tilt-back was slower, the speed would have probably gotten so high, that even more acceleration required by the tilt-back could be too much for the batteries/motor to handle

But for softer tiltbacks it could just start earlier!

On 6/11/2019 at 7:05 PM, esaj said:

(I suspect that at high enough speed, the motor back-EMF would rise so high that the battery voltage wouldn't be enough to keep accelerating, and would instead start braking due to regeneration occurring), and the result would be a face plant.

Flying over a thread in a german forum regarding driving/controlling a BLDC motor, they simulate the motor coild inductance too for back emf calculation. Would be interesting if the voltage of the inductance is of interest for strong acceleration changes too (reaching overlean earlier?) or just neglectable...

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