Shoulder Braces

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I was looking online trying to find a shoulder brace for sports that would help against falling injuries.  Unlike sports knee braces to try to reduce ligament injuries, there doesn't seem to be anything available that helps brace the arms to prevent large forces being transmitted up into the shoulder socket.  I did see some unilateral EVS braces which looked good, but I also ran across some studies saying that for football linebackers shoulder braces didn't help prevent injuries.  Most braces seem to be for after the accident to provide support and to reduce pain during movement. 

@Rehab1 - do you know of anything that could help prevent accidents like yours from happening?  If you have worn a support shoulder brace, do you think that might have altered your accident outcome any?  Thinking about it some more, I guess it's quite difficult to transmit arm forces in a frontal fall to other areas like the chest/rib cage without some sort of upper body frame that had arm struts of some sort.  Maybe a chest skid plate with bowed flex extensions would work.  One could just raise the arms up during a fall and land on the chest sled.  It would look a bit crazy to wear, but I wonder from a theoretical standpoint whether it would avoid shoulder/upper arm injuries?

[LanghamP]

This was actually covered quite extensively on the first day of Parkour that I took a year ago.

Basically, on a front roll, choose one arm or the other, place forearm over the eyes with the elbow up about an high as you can go, and then do your best to convert this into a roll.

Trying to catch yourself by pushing both arms out with elbows down (looks like a pushup) is not possible for most people.

[RockyTop]

3 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I was looking online trying to find a shoulder brace for sports that would help against falling injuries.  Unlike sports knee braces to try to reduce ligament injuries, there doesn't seem to be anything available that helps brace the arms to prevent large forces being transmitted up into the shoulder socket.  I did see some unilateral EVS braces which looked good, but I also ran across some studies saying that for football linebackers shoulder braces didn't help prevent injuries.  Most braces seem to be for after the accident to provide support and to reduce pain during movement. 

@Rehab1 - do you know of anything that could help prevent accidents like yours from happening?  If you have worn a support shoulder brace, do you think that might have altered your accident outcome any?  Thinking about it some more, I guess it's quite difficult to transmit arm forces in a frontal fall to other areas like the chest/rib cage without some sort of upper body frame that had arm struts of some sort.  Maybe a chest skid plate with bowed flex extensions would work.  One could just raise the arms up during a fall and land on the chest sled.  It would look a bit crazy to wear, but I wonder from a theoretical standpoint whether it would avoid shoulder/upper arm injuries?

IMHO. Sure you can brake bones but the real problem with the shoulder is a torn rotator cuff.  The bones tend to heal fast but the rotator cuff may never heal to 100%. You can't really protect against it.  It is caused by over rotation / hyper extension or over exertion. (pulled and torn)  You can cause it by reaching out and catching yourself.  I caused mine by grabbing a hand hold as I fell and did not let go in time.  My arm ended up twisted behind me.  15 years later I am reminded about once a week of the injury when I move my arm at various angles or try to move too quick.  ( Like waving your arms while trying to balance on a Unicycle)  Don't get me wrong I have full use of my arm and the momentary pain is more of a reminder than a problem.  

 I lost complete use of my arm for 3 months.  I had minimal use for 3 months.  It took 2 years for full motion and a 95% recovery.   

So, You are probably thinking, This is not worth it.  Before you cancel your subscription to Duff and Marty bi weekly let me tell you my story.    I was beginning to get old.  I could no longer jump off truck docks without jarring my spinal cord.  I could not get comfortable in bed.  Then I got an EUC  and it built up my core muscles.  I ride it on mountain bike trails and get my heart pumping.  I feel ten years younger...........and I can jump off truck docks again.  Who needs stairs?  I sleep better too.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

  I was trying to figure out if there was a way to protect the shoulder joint and arm bones better so we all might benefit, and I could find a way to make it safer to ride again for myself.  I’m usually pretty tough, but this fall was a doozy.  If it was my right arm I’d be hooped!

Arms went out to land on wristguards, but my left elbow made contact too which transferred most of the force to my shoulder which was not designed to receive that much pressure.  Wrists are fine, but left arm movements are slowly coming back.  Can’t do the chicken dance without slight twinges.  Might have to switch to the robot dance... 

[LanghamP]

5 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

  I was trying to figure out if there was a way to protect the shoulder joint and arm bones better so we all might benefit, and I could find a way to make it safer to ride again for myself.  I’m usually pretty tough, but this fall was a doozy.  If it was my right arm I’d be hooped!

Arms went out to land on wristguards, but my left elbow made contact too which transferred most of the force to my shoulder which was not designed to receive that much pressure.  Wrists are fine, but left arm movements are slowly coming back.  Can’t do the chicken dance without slight twinges.  Might have to switch to the robot dance... 

I sympathize; I fell off my EUC from a zero speed crash over PVC pipe. I still have problems with my wrist, and to date is the only EUC related injury that I still have.

Over a year later. From a standstill. Sheesh...

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Thinking about things further, I wonder if a thicker well secured elbow and forearm pad would have help cushion the fall lessening the stresses on the shoulder area.  I've been looking for thicker elbow pads, and I haven't had much luck except for this:  

Or maybe some Lacrosse elbow pads:

Or maybe some goalie/hockey player elbow pads:

I wonder if I landed on my elbow/forearm that had a pad under it, it might have reduced the sudden pressure to the shoulder.  Hockey players and goalies are always diving or being thrown forwards onto the ice, but they get right up without any problems.  I think the key might be a thicker elbow pad to decelerate the fall a little more gradually.  Ideally a there should be an outer skid plate over the thick padding to allow a rider to slide and be cushioned at the same time.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

20 hours ago, Dingfelder said:

A motocross jacket or something like that?

I was wearing my motorcycle jacket with elbow and shoulder pads.  It’s just landing on my arm transmitting a lot of force to my shoulder.  I’m not sure a jacket could help avoid that.

20 hours ago, Marcglider said:

Ck this out...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorcycle-Full-Body-Armor-Jacket-Spine-Chest-Protection-Gear-S-M-L-XL-2XL-3XL/380473424544?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144

Thanks.  I’ve seen those, and I think @Rehab1 has something similar.  For skids it probably would help, but impact cushioning of the shoulder joint I don’t think it would buffer things much.

20 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

Should probably discuss in ‘how bad were you hurt’ topic but I can’t stress enough that you need to see a physician! 

I massaged some Voltaren emulgel into the shoulder where it’s still tender.  Seemed to help a bit.  If it was worse I’d use some of that freebie healthcare.  I think a bit more time should heal it up pretty good. It’s getting there.  I’m just a wimp!  

[The Fat Unicyclist]

6 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I was wearing my motorcycle jacket with elbow and shoulder pads.  It’s just landing on my arm transmitting a lot of force to my shoulder.  I’m not sure a jacket could help avoid that.

Thanks.  I’ve seen those, and I think @Rehab1 has something similar.  For skids it probably would help, but impact cushioning of the shoulder joint I don’t think it would buffer things much.

I massaged some Voltaren emulgel into the shoulder where it’s still tender.  Seemed to help a bit.  If it was worse I’d use some of that freebie healthcare.  I think a bit more time should heal it up pretty good. It’s getting there.  I’m just a wimp!  

I have had all of my joints surgically removed... It means that there are less things to go wrong! And because I ride an EUC everywhere, I don't really need most of my joints anyway!   

[Rehab1]

On 8/27/2018 at 7:18 PM, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

ab1 - do you know of anything that could help prevent accidents like yours from happening?  If you have worn a support shoulder brace, do you think that might have altered your accident outcome any?  Thinking about it some more, I guess it's quite difficult to transmit arm forces in a frontal fall to other areas like the chest/rib cage without some sort of upper body frame that had arm struts of some sort.  Maybe a chest skid plate with bowed flex extensions would work.  One could just raise the arms up during a fall and land on the chest sled.  It would look a bit crazy to wear, but I wonder from a theoretical standpoint whether it would avoid

Sorry for the late reply buddy. The internet service sucks at my lake home.

I added shock absorption padding to my existing elbow pads to help dampen the forces translating up to the shoulder joint in case I encountered a similar fall.but I’m still not certain anything short of a full body cast would have prevented my injury.

If you recall my feet were basically glued to the ACM pedals with the spikes I fabricated.  Hitting the pot hole at 25 mph along with the 50 lb ACM  basically attached to my lower extremities significantly increased the momentum and substantial forces upon impact that traveled up directly to my humeral head. I was Humpty Dumpty that broke apart. 

I don’t believe you will ever encounter the fall I had given the circumstances but any added protection for your elbows and shoulders would be prudent.

Be well my friend. 

 

[litewave]

I have a motorcycle jacket that I wear in cooler weather but, like you, I don't trust it to keep all the bits in the right places during a faceplant.

Demon United (the same company that makes the Flexmeter wristguards that many of us wear) make some devlish gear that I have been eyeing for a while, but have postponed until I acquire a faster wheel ... The Flex Force X2 seems to offer complete upper body protection (D3O) at a decent price ($200 before coupons/discounts).

 

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

That suit would make me look more like Batman!    But looking at where the arms join the chest, without some sort of elbow to chest fixed brace/shock, the arms still could transmit all the forces up to the shoulder I think.  Hmm this is a real brain stumper.  I'd much rather have some bruised pectoral muscles than deal with this joint pain recovery.  Maybe my fall was a bit abnormal as other people don't seem to be reporting shoulder injuries as much.  Hopefully it was just an outlier, but I think I could be done for the season/hobby.

[SanDiegoGuy]

2 hours ago, litewave said:

I have a motorcycle jacket that I wear in cooler weather but, like you, I don't trust it to keep all the bits in the right places during a faceplant.

Demon United (the same company that makes the Flexmeter wristguards that many of us wear) make some devlish gear that I have been eyeing for a while, but have postponed until I acquire a faster wheel ... The Flex Force X2 seems to offer complete upper body protection (D3O) at a decent price ($200 before coupons/discounts).

 

This suit looks cool.  I am thinking of getting one.  However, is it hot to wear during the summer?  Do people wear this on the outside or wear something light to cover it?

[RayRay]

Nobody seems to make standalone shoulder braces (other than football style pads). The only other shoulder protection I could find were for (single) shoulder injuries. EVS has a wide selection, including one shoulder support that covers both shoulders (SB05). Unfortunately, that version does not come with extra shoulder padding...

Here are some of EVS shoulder supports (SB03/SB04/SB05):

EVS SB03 covers one shoulder with an adjustable strap (no padding). EVS SB04 has better padding; (SB05 has only the strap).

Demon has D3O shoulder pads... (These would be nice to cover both shoulders.) However, the closest I've been able to achieve is to combine EVS SB05 with Demon X D3O Smartskin knee pads (which I already own). I just slip the D30 knee pads underneath the shoulder straps of the SB05 (which holds them in place). I was going to buy separate pads for this, but the Demon D30 knee pads worked out fine (due to their shape).

[Unventor]

I use on daily basis my POC DH jacket VPD 2.0, it has D30 shoulder and elbow, front upper chest and spine pads. But only front and back pads can be taken out if you eg, want to wash it.

I started to use a mc jacket on top. but in summer I just used a t-shirt. the mesh net makes it fairy breathable. but any air tight shell over it mad a lot of warmth. and it is expensice too. but how do you rate a broken back?

 

 

[Electroman]

On 9/5/2018 at 4:16 AM, litewave said:

I have a motorcycle jacket that I wear in cooler weather but, like you, I don't trust it to keep all the bits in the right places during a faceplant.

Demon United (the same company that makes the Flexmeter wristguards that many of us wear) make some devlish gear that I have been eyeing for a while, but have postponed until I acquire a faster wheel ... The Flex Force X2 seems to offer complete upper body protection (D3O) at a decent price ($200 before coupons/discounts).

 

Nice one, thanks for posting it.

While I am using Acerbis myself atm it lead me to Demon website and they have got a few nice protective wests/jackets, even saw one that looked mainly black and zipper centered at the front which I prefer for faster on/off. Most def will have a closer look at the Demon line.

[Rehab1]

All of the above jackets and shoulder pads offer great protective qualities. Unfortunately when a rider falls directly onto their forearm with the elbow bent at 90 degrees the forces are  translated up the humeral shaft to the shoulder. 

Finding a method to biomechanically redirect these powerful assending ‘closed chain’ forces while still being able to move your arms comfortably remains the challenge. 

[FreeRide]

On 9/4/2018 at 10:16 PM, litewave said:

I have a motorcycle jacket that I wear in cooler weather but, like you, I don't trust it to keep all the bits in the right places during a faceplant.

Demon United (the same company that makes the Flexmeter wristguards that many of us wear) make some devlish gear that I have been eyeing for a while, but have postponed until I acquire a faster wheel ... The Flex Force X2 seems to offer complete upper body protection (D3O) at a decent price ($200 before coupons/discounts).

...

That's actually a pretty good price for that.  It will likely be more once it hits Amazon. i wonder if you can get the wrist guards on with it though, must be able to.

[litewave]

4 hours ago, Rehab1 said:

All of the above jackets and shoulder pads offer great protective qualities. Unfortunately when a rider falls directly onto their forearm with the elbow bent at 90 degrees the forces are  translated up the humeral shaft to the shoulder. 

Finding a method to biomechanically redirect these powerful assending ‘closed chain’ forces while still being able to move your arms comfortably remains the challenge. 

 

I thought you solved this with your new upgrades

[Rehab1]

2 hours ago, litewave said:

 

I thought you solved this with your new upgrades

 

Yep all is solved except for assembly of the Radio Shack arc reactor. 

 

[Electroman]

1 minute ago, Rehab1 said:

Yep all is solved except for assembly of the Radio Shack arc reactor. 

 

Hahaha, I wish.

But just to be sure I will try Google, thinking about removing the battery packs and hot wire the reactor, told you so I do like my speed!

[Rehab1]

8 minutes ago, Electroman said:

Hahaha, I wish.

But just to be sure I will try Google, thinking about removing the battery packs and hot wire the reactor, told you so I do like my speed!

 Be careful! I’ve tried that before. 

 

[Electroman]

Hahaha, to thin wiring for that kind of power Rehab, perhaps try superconductor wire ?

[FreeRide]

On 9/4/2018 at 10:16 PM, litewave said:

I have a motorcycle jacket that I wear in cooler weather but, like you, I don't trust it to keep all the bits in the right places during a faceplant.

Demon United (the same company that makes the Flexmeter wristguards that many of us wear) make some devlish gear that I have been eyeing for a while, but have postponed until I acquire a faster wheel ... The Flex Force X2 seems to offer complete upper body protection (D3O) at a decent price ($200 before coupons/discounts).

 

Just tested this one today and I quite like it.  Not quite as easy to get on as I would like, but I was putting it over a mid-weight Merino base layer. It is quite comfortable.  I would have liked to see them use a higher quality zipper from YKK, that might be an issue, with the curvy zipper track and the tight fit the zipper does have to be pretty robust, but only time will tell; it just didn't give me confidence.  

I was happy that I could get the Flexmeter wristguards over it, but it was not ideal, I don't think you'll have much luck getting the vest over the guards and you probably would not want to. One could try shortening the sleeves which might be interesting.  I may use some of my other guards more with this vest.  Since one would typically still use wrist guards and knee guards, not sue it saves much time, or really makes gearing up more convient, but it is nicer than wearing my elbow guards which have issues staying in place and being comfortable, and the back protection is a great bonus.  

I look forward to trying it more as with the cool weather it's great for keeping warm too, not sure how it would feel in the middle of summer.

I think they should think about overing a version designed to be mated better with the Flexmeter guards.  Maybe make the lower part of the sleeves removable

Overall I'm very happy with it.

[litewave]

12 minutes ago, FreeRide said:

Just tested this one today and I quite like it.  Not quite as easy to get on as I would like, but I was putting it over a mid-weight Merino base layer. It is quite comfortable.  I would have liked to see them use a higher quality zipper from YKK, that might be an issue, with the curvy zipper track and the tight fit the zipper does have to be pretty robust, but only time will tell; it just didn't give me confidence.  

I was happy that I could get the Flexmeter wristguards over it, but it was not ideal, I don't think you'll have much luck getting the vest over the guards and you probably would not want to. One could try shortening the sleeves which might be interesting.  I may use some of my other guards more with this vest.  Since one would typically still use wrist guards and knee guards, not sue it saves much time, or really makes gearing up more convient, but it is nicer than wearing my elbow guards which have issues staying in place and being comfortable, and the back protection is a great bonus.  

I look forward to trying it more as with the cool weather it's great for keeping warm too, not sure how it would feel in the middle of summer.

I think they should think about overing a version designed to be mated better with the Flexmeter guards.  Maybe make the lower part of the sleeves removable

Overall I'm very happy with it.

Thanks for being the first to try this out and report back. I hope you can do a full review after a while, perhaps with photos or video. It would be great to see how an EUC rider looks in this 'demonsuit' when cruising around.

I have had concerns about the sleeves, as well as practicality for everyday commuting in a low-density environment. But for riding around in Boston in congested areas and on busy streets this level of protection probably makes a lot of sense.