KS18L vs GW Tesla

[enigma35]

Hey guys,

Wondering if some of you who have ridden both the 18L and the Tesla can chime in. I'm coming from the KS16B, and I outgrew it speed-wise about a year ago but have been waiting for the 18L.

I love pretty much everything about the 18L from what people are saying, but in looking at the Tesla, I'm wondering if that extra 7mph in top speed (from 30mph to 37mph) will be something that bugs me a few months after getting an 18L. I know with my KS16B, the ~19 mph max speed felt pretty slow within a few months of riding in bike lanes and streets, and if I had had the option of getting something faster (which didn't really exist at the time), I would have wanted that.

Those of you guys riding the 18L, are you pushing against the 30mph limit and wishing you had the extra 5-7mph of something like a Tesla?

And are 30mph / 37mph speeds relatively comfortable cruising speeds for each? Or is it too crazy cruising at ~37mph on a 16" wheel? My 16B isn't terribly unstable, but it also doesn't go 30+ mph.

Last thing -- i've heard somewhere of something called the "gotway glide" which is supposed to be some ethereal quality that GW EUCs have that make them really smooth or something. Does this apply to the Tesla? And is it noticeably absent from the KS18L?

Thanks in advance.

 

[meepmeepmayer]

37mph on the Tesla? Where does that figure come from? I've always heard 31 is the max. I wouldn't go faster than 30!

If you want a fast(er) wheel, get the msuper X (I guess) or the 100V Monster.

[Rywokast]

well I can tell you for certain that 37 mph while technically possible.. would definitely be very stupid to go on the tesla.. 30-31 is it's safe upper limit on a near full battery 

 anyways, the dimensions are the kingsong is taller and longer, but quite a bit thinner.. as well as the weight is approx the same.. you can see this in my unicycle size chart topic.. since they both have the same size battery and both have handles it would come down to do you prefer a 16" or 18" wheel, a thin and tall wheel (as the inmotions usually are for comparison) or a stout wheel (typical of gotway) and how each one comfort wise feels to you specifically.. it will vary from person to person.. I would say since you obviously don't own either get the tesla if you plan on going on mostly paved grounds or smoother roads and like a more nimble, feisty wheel, and go with the kingsong if you prefer a smoother more relaxed ride or perhaps plan to go on unpaved/trails or bumpier roads mainly..

[enigma35]

Thanks, guys.

The 37mph figure was from https://www.ewheels.com/product/new-gotway-tesla-16-1020wh-1900w-motor/.

The page mentions:

Quote

Has the maximum speed been increased?
Yes, Gotway claim the Tesla has a 7MPH higher speed margin (37MPH) over the ACMs+ (30MPH).

 

[squirt]

Probably better to quote the whole verbage regarding that bullet item on the product page and note the warning:

 

Quote

Has the maximum speed been increased?
Yes, Gotway claim the Tesla has a 7MPH higher speed margin (37MPH) over the ACMs+ (30MPH). Considering the minimal redundancy within an Electric Unicycle & that the probability of failure is not negligible, we strongly advise against pushing the speed/performance limits of a Wheel & keeping the speed down to within 30MPH while wearing protective equipment such as wrist/knee/elbow guards & a helmet.

 

I hit the 25MPH barrier on my KS18AY+ often when on bike trails or on the road trying to get to a safer place away from cars.  I just recently unlocked (yesterday) the 31MPH speed on my KS18L and think that will be more than enough for me.

[meepmeepmayer]

Yea, that quote translates to "They say the thing can go 37, but it really can't".

If you want a fast ridable, EUCs are not really suitable for high speeds. These are ideally under 45km/h for safety reasons. You want speed, get a Dualtron scooter or so. 

If you want a EUC specifically but are worried about speed, I would not worry too much, the jump from 25 or 30 (km/h), which is just too slow,  to 35-40, which is plenty fast enough, is more significant than the numbers may make it seem.

Again, speed EUC, get a 100V Monster and you can safely go 60km/h, and probably the msuper X can safely go 55 (no guarantee, don't know). But thb, this is almost too fast for these kind of devices. One little unseen obstacle and you inevitably crash in the worst way.

[ED209]

The 100V Monster is built for cruising comfortably, and can exceed 30mph easily due to the 22 inch diameter, it is stable and planted. For speeds of 30mph and above you need high level of Skill which includes technique, braking skill and experience as you are facing strong headwind as well as other factors. At 35mph it is very hard to hear the final alarm due to the fierce headwind.

[Marty Backe]

I really doubt that the Tesla can go anywhere near that speed.

Do you have a death wish? 30-mph feels scary fast on an EUC. My personal limit is ~25-mph although I've gone faster for short bursts.

The 18L is a fast wheel, but only when the battery is fully charged. The general consensus (which I'm part of) is that Gotway is the king of fast EUCs. I think the best all-around, fast, and long-range wheel being made is the MSuper X. The 100-volt Monster is probably the ultimate high-speed wheel owing to the 100-volts and 22-inch diameter wheel. But it's not the most practical wheel, and the range is more limited.

Considering your emphasis on speed, I would highly recommend the MSX. 

[ED209]

@Marty Backe, I agree that the 100V Monster is not practical enough, for me it isn't an everyday wheel, I ride my V8 always. For brute speed, the wheel of the moment has to be the MSX. It comes with an extension handle, making it easier to live with. For high speed, the bigger diameter wheel is needed, not 16 inch. 

[Jerome]

20 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I really doubt that the Tesla can go anywhere near that speed.

Do you have a death wish? 30-mph feels scary fast on an EUC. My personal limit is ~25-mph although I've gone faster for short bursts.

The 18L is a fast wheel, but only when the battery is fully charged. The general consensus (which I'm part of) is that Gotway is the king of fast EUCs. I think the best all-around, fast, and long-range wheel being made is the MSuper X. The 100-volt Monster is probably the ultimate high-speed wheel owing to the 100-volts and 22-inch diameter wheel. But it's not the most practical wheel, and the range is more limited.

Considering your emphasis on speed, I would highly recommend the MSX. 

The reduction in speed can be a hindrance on the smaller KS wheels but not on the KS18L. I hit 29+ mph going up hill at 50% battery weighing 240 lbs. At the end of a 30 mile ride I could still hit 25 mph. It will do 20 mph or more down to 20% battery (240 lb rider). Other than emergencies no one should be draining their batteries much passed 20%.

For those who want to ride at high speeds for long periods of time then the MSX is the way to go. The Tesla is a 16 inch wheel which is more susceptible to bad road conditions, especially at high speeds and is not "practically" faster than the KS18L. The MSX has a bigger wheel than the KS18L, a larger battery and can ride at full speed down to 20%. Hard to go wrong with the MSX if you truly have the need for speed.

[Marty Backe]

10 minutes ago, Jerome said:

The reduction in speed can be a hindrance on the smaller KS wheels but not on the KS18L. I hit 29+ mph going up hill at 50% battery weighing 240 lbs. At the end of a 30 mile ride I could still hit 25 mph. It will do 20 mph or more down to 20% battery (240 lb rider). Other than emergencies no one should be draining their batteries much passed 20%.

For those who want to ride at high speeds for long periods of time then the MSX is the way to go. The Tesla is a 16 inch wheel which is more susceptible to bad road conditions, especially at high speeds and is not "practically" faster than the KS18L. The MSX has a bigger wheel than the KS18L, a larger battery and can ride at full speed down to 20%. Hard to go wrong with the MSX if you truly have the need for speed.

Good to know that the speed throttling on the 18L is less severe than their other wheels 

[ED209]

@Jerome, very impressive feedback on the KS18L performance. I used to ride the Kingsong 18a 680wh battery and I could only enjoy maximum performance for 20% before the throttling started. At 50% It would beep constantly at 15mph, was very annoying. 

[US69]

20 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Good to know that the speed throttling on the 18L is less severe than their other wheels 

This is the good old Marty....just driving at a  max of 20-22mph...but bashing about speed throttling :-)

Actually the speed throttling is about the same than on 18S...not really noticable before 20-25 %...and even then it would still fit your needs 

[Marty Backe]

8 minutes ago, US69 said:

This is the good old Marty....just driving at a  max of 20-22mph...but bashing about speed throttling :-)

Actually the speed throttling is about the same than on 18S...not really noticable before 20-25 %...and even then it would still fit your needs 

I know you're just having some fun, but to be fair, the OP is emphasizing very high-speed riding so he would experience the speed throttling whereas I wouldn't (because I'm such a slow rider).

[US69]

Just now, Marty Backe said:

know you're just having some fun, b

Yeah ...exactly, just having some fun! I also always recommend GW to the people who are looking to kill themself riding 30mph plus...

KS is not their brand, definitly! Much to safe and conservative....but the KS brand can live with that ;-)

(Thats just all kidding folks...dont take that serious!)

[Rywokast]

2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I know you're just having some fun, but to be fair, the OP is emphasizing very high-speed riding so he would experience the speed throttling whereas I wouldn't (because I'm such a slow rider).

yea speeds above 30 mph are just plain old hard to maintain even if you are crazy lol.. unless you plan on going on a smooth highway it's just not very reasonable, maybe if you're on a monster where a small pothole won't send you sailing but still very dangerous of a car pulls out or suddenly stops no way you'll have enough time to react as the amount of space needed to brake will be significant at those speeds as well

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I usually rode around 48 kph on the Tesla routinely on my past trips .  It was fun hitting the beep warnings, but I'd rarely hit five beeps.  Mostly it was a couple to four.  Once you get used to the wind, it's actually not that scary.  Considering Ron flew off at about 52 kph, and guessing his weight must be around 200 pounds, maybe someone who's 120-130 pounds might be able to hit 58 kph, downhill with the wind at their back?  Who wants to test that upper limit?    I'm a little leery now about gyro instability since my accident at 22 kph.  The bump I went over didn't seem that large, but something went amiss.    I think my days of flying around at 48 kph are likely over except inside a car.  

[Rywokast]

26 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I usually rode around 48 kph on the Tesla routinely on my past trips .  It was fun hitting the beep warnings, but I'd rarely hit five beeps.  Mostly it was a couple to four.  Once you get used to the wind, it's actually not that scary.  Considering Ron flew off at about 52 kph, and guessing his weight must be around 200 pounds, maybe someone who's 120-130 pounds might be able to hit 58 kph, downhill with the wind at their back?  Who wants to test that upper limit?    I'm a little leery now about gyro instability since my accident at 22 kph.  The bump I went over didn't seem that large, but something went amiss.    I think my days of flying around at 48 kph are likely over except inside a car.  

oh god you daredevil.. I'm 120 but no way in hell I'm pushing anything that isn't the monster to near 60 kph.. even to go 45 I have to lean a little more than is comfortable to get the wheel to do it but it's often very windy here on the coast so the wind can be brutal at those speeds

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Yeah I was young and crazy once.    Now I'm just injured and crazy.    Not a good combo.  I think the Tesla could be still pretty stable going up to 55-60 kph in a version 2.0.  You'd have to know the road conditions really well though, but it's probably possible.  I'm 167 lbs so I kept it under 50 kph for a good safety measure to have some spare power available for bumps and wind gusts.  I think the Russians took the 100 V Monster to around 72 kph on the highway!  Now that's cray cray!  

Here's my last ride log.  Those peaks above 40 were fun until that crash near the end.  

[Rywokast]

8 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

Yeah I was young and crazy once.    Now I'm just injured and crazy.    Not a good combo.  I think the Tesla could be still pretty stable going up to 55-60 kph in a version 2.0.  You'd have to know the road conditions really well though, but it's probably possible.  I'm 167 lbs so I kept it under 50 kph for a good safety measure to have some spare power available for bumps and wind gusts.  I think the Russians took the 100 V Monster to around 72 kph on the highway!  Now that's cray cray!  

of course they were Russian xD

[enigma35]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

I'm actually not that concerned with riding at top speed all the time, was more just wondering if I would outgrow the 18L's top speed the way I did with the ks16b.

I ride on streets and on relatively smooth bike lanes in dtla mostly, and just want the ability to keep up with slower traffic at times when I lane change.

A couple of you guys mentioned the msuper x. Is that actually a faster wheel or just a more stable one? Every site I look at either won't quote the actual top speed or quotes a "this is the fastest speed we would recommend" number.

Whats the realistic top speed for this wheel? 

[Marcglider]

20 minutes ago, enigma35 said:

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

I'm actually not that concerned with riding at top speed all the time, was more just wondering if I would outgrow the 18L's top speed the way I did with the ks16b.

I ride on streets and on relatively smooth bike lanes in dtla mostly, and just want the ability to keep up with slower traffic at times when I lane change.

A couple of you guys mentioned the msuper x. Is that actually a faster wheel or just a more stable one? Every site I look at either won't quote the actual top speed or quotes a "this is the fastest speed we would recommend" number.

Whats the realistic top speed for this wheel? 

So many people are comparing 16" and 18" together in their decisions... not sure why they always get compared together... ANYWAY... like @Rywokast was saying above, you want to decide about nimbleness and handling, vs smooth and higher speed that feels Solid... that being said, my personal decision for you would be an ACMv2... it is quick, solid feel like it is heavier, I think because of the lower center of gravity, and handles like a typical 16" wheel...

I own a Tesla and love it... I had an 18S and traded it in for the ACM... I also have an MCM5 which is a killer wheel but a whole other animal all together (14")... Marty is near you, he does not have a KS18L but he has everything else, you could possibly be nice to him and he will let you try them out...  or come to Fl and you can try Mine...

Oh yeah, and over 50 mile range on the ACM also

[Stan Onymous]

1 hour ago, enigma35 said:

A couple of you guys mentioned the msuper x. Is that actually a faster wheel or just a more stable one? Every site I look at either won't quote the actual top speed or quotes a "this is the fastest speed we would recommend" number.

 Whats the realistic top speed for this wheel?

Until Wheels get shock absorbers, going anywhere above 30 mph in DTLA or any L.A. streets is a numbers game where you get thrown from the Wheel. The MSuper is indeed faster, but not faster at braking from 40 mph than a car, so theres another area that makes that speed unsafe in a commuter application. DTLA traffic speed is around 20mph with very few areas for over 30mph around the Staples center or on the other side around Alameda. I would not try going that fast on Alameda from Temple to Olympic.

Stability is not the issue here. Centrifugal forces are centrifugal forces above 20 mph and the larger tire smoothes out the road wrinkles, but not the bumps, since there is no Suspension system save for the tire rubber and air. The Shock absorbers would absorb the force that will launch you into the air without them. So its a numbers game, and you can ride for a while at those top speeds, but not for long... 

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, enigma35 said:

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

I'm actually not that concerned with riding at top speed all the time, was more just wondering if I would outgrow the 18L's top speed the way I did with the ks16b.

I ride on streets and on relatively smooth bike lanes in dtla mostly, and just want the ability to keep up with slower traffic at times when I lane change.

A couple of you guys mentioned the msuper x. Is that actually a faster wheel or just a more stable one? Every site I look at either won't quote the actual top speed or quotes a "this is the fastest speed we would recommend" number.

Whats the realistic top speed for this wheel? 

Going from "too slow" (25km/h) to "not bad!" (35) is a question of whether the wheel can do it on a technical level. 16B can't, Tesla, can, for example.

Going from 35 to 40, 45, or 50 is a question of whether this is feels like a good idea to do with the respective wheel. No longer a technical question, but one of how this works and how safe and in control you feel (and are). Wind also becomes a big factor fast at increasing speeds. (This is also why I don't think you can get "speed disappointment" then like everyone gets at 25, wheels aren't just suitable for going too fast due to their inherent instability in any crash situation and just due to the wind resistance, so there's a built in speed limit how fast any reasonable person will want to go).

Sure an mten3 (10 incher) can go almost 40 (=25mph), but that doesn't mean it is a good idea to do that. A bigger tire diameter means more stability (though that also depends on the wheel itself and how it is built), a more comfortable ride, and is safer against the inevitable pothole/curb/bump/obstacle you overlook. Which is why for regular, longer or faster commuting, I'd go for an 18 incher just for the added comfort (especially at speed).

Truth is, you can do pretty much anything with any wheel, it will work and be great fun. But that shouldn't stop you getting the wheel that works best for your use case.

Not sure if anybody tested it, but I'd say the msuper X can safely (=with enough margin) do 55kph/35mph, so it is a bit faster than the 18L at 50. The more substantial tire also seems to be more stable and, more importantly, acts almost like a suspension. Both the msX and the 18L are fantastic wheels (for commuting or not), as is the Tesla, so it's not like can go wrong with any of them. Get the one you feel like getting, that instinctively appeals to you. Maybe it's the more compact and managable Tesla, maybe it's the sleek 18L as a professional commuter, maybe it's the super-stable tire of the msX for pure feathery bliss.

Objectively, wheels have no top speed (they may just have a fixed-speed limiter like the 18L for safety reasons). They have a power budget, which can be used for speed, a heavier rider, going uphill, and whatnot. That is why it is hard to give an official top speed, that would be the one where a wheel shuts off under no load, but that means nothing in real life. That's where the "I wouldn't go faster than X" recommendations come from, it's the speed that works for a regular-weight rider.

The important thing is, NEVER ignore any warning beeps (and make sure you hear them), and wear wrist guards, knee guards and a (full face) helmet. The danger with fast wheels is that your first crash will be at a speed where you might have some more serious injuries. Ideally, you'd have an inconsequential first crash at lower speeds that calibrates your sense of what one should and should not do with a EUC.

[Mark Lee]

Since MSX is in these posts I will add few thoughts.  What makes MSX is the tire, it must have a lot of rubber in the compound of the tire which gives it a flex even at the max pressure.  Add to that the diameter almost 20 inches gives very smooth ride much more so than 16 inch wheels, MSX can go through pot holes much easier with less drama.  Another huge factor for MSX is the battery (1600 wh), with multiple wheels I think I've become a battery snob especially with wheels 16 inches and up.  My MCM5 have 650 wh but it works for me as my utilitarian work horse for commuting and ride at work wheel, all I need is ~20 mile range.  However for my wheels that I ride for fun 1K wh is not enough thus the decision not to get Z10 at close to $2K.  I will wait for the Z20 that's been mentioned in this Forum and hope that they will make it with larger battery.