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New rider with MSuper V3s+ questions...


MikeV
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Hello all,

Glad to be a part of the community. Shins are currently banged up and healing:D But I'm climbing back on and getting over the curve...

A few questions for you more informed people:

I recently purchased my first wheel off of eBay from a guy in the Bay Area of California (I myself live in SoCal). It was advertised as being the 1300wh capacity at 84v. I finally got Wheellog to connect tonight and it was reporting 67v on a 98 or 99% charged battery. I decided to crack open the shell to take a look. Upon doing so, I noticed that two of the shell screws were missing (as far as I could tell, when I tried to 'even out' the screw placement, with some of the other screws, those plastic threads had been stripped out also). Anyway, I got in and took the following pic. It looks legit to me. So maybe the 1300wh version was only 67v? One of the controller board screws was half loose. Everything else seemed okay. A little bit of duct tape in the top-right off of controller board?

Also, I know that there's no user-upgradeable firmware for these wheels. But do the dealers have the ability to flash them? There definitely looks to be a USB pin-out on the bottom, blue pcb. Don't want to have an experience like Marty, if possible.

Here is a link to my purchase: https://www.ebay.com/itm/142903296412?ViewItem=&item=142903296412

Wheellog also reported 18km on the wheel. I've put maybe 1km on it. Does it have a tendency to misreport things?

Photo attached...

Thanks and best,

Mike V.

IMG_0663.jpg

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16 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Hi!

  • Your wheel is 84V. It's just that Gotways always report 67.2V (whether it is true or not) so Gotway wouldn't have to adapt their app to multiple voltages:efefd8a002: You can tell it's 84V from the thickness of the battery and the extrusion in the side panels for that, from what it says on the battery packs, from the 4 pin charge port (67.2V is 3 pin), what your charger says, etc. So you're good in that respect.
    The newer Wheellog version from the forum has an option to correct the voltage display. But it also changes/disables settings behind your back, which can be very confusing and maybe dangerous especially if you're a new rider, so I recommend staying with the Play Store version for now (it just displays the wrong voltage, that's it).
  • Worn out screw holes can happen easily on these shells, and I guess they are to be expected for a 1 year old wheel (170623 is the board production date, I believe, assembly date is on the box sticker). None of these screws are structural, they just keep the shell closed towards dust and maybe water. What matters is the shell halves are firmly on the pedal brackets (they are) and the board is firm (a loose board can lead to wobbling or even a crash). Not sure what the duct tape is for, take a look. As long as the board is firmly on the shell, everything is good:efee47c9c8:
  • As you already figured out, the board date (June 2017) is just in the dangerous time when the oscillation firmware bug happened (as far as I remember). I'd consider getting a new, safe board before risking anything like that.
    Gotway are very stingy with their firmware update tool and don't want to give it out, even to dealers. Afaik, only @Jason McNeil (ewheels.com in the U.S.) and some high volume French sellers got that tool. Maybe @Jason McNeil can say if the board is in the affected date range, he's also the one where you'd get a new replacement board (or maybe he offers to check and flash your board for a fee?).
  • The wheel displays the current ride distance (resets each ride) and the overall distance (can't be reset at all). This is usually accurate. If the overall distance is 18km, I wonder how that can happen, the wheel was certainly used for more than 18km, wasn't it? (If it only has 18km, nice catch!:efefd0f676:) Can you detail what is going on there? You can also try one of the official Gotway apps and see what they say (but I've never heard of Wheellog displaying wrong info).

The board issue is the one thing I wouldn't dare ignore. Confirm it's 100% safe, or get a fix. Annoying when you just got a new wheel, and you have my sympathies, but better safe than sorry here! (If you screw out and in boards, be very carefuly not to wear out the screw holes for the board, they're brittle.)

Other than that, the wheel looks fine:efee47c9c8: So enjoy (and clear the board issue)!

(Minor thing, just to be sure: do all three golden motor connectors have the transparent heat sleeve? Because these are also insulation. Hard to see what's going on on the yellow cable one. Also, the black spot where it says "AWG" on the yellow motor cable, that's no heat damage, is it?)

He may be safe regarding the board. Based on the board date, assembly was probably in July and I think that was out of the danger zone by that time.

I'm pretty sure that at this time EWheels does not have the ability to re-flash the boards, so he'd have to buy a replacement, which might be in short supply (hard to get parts are usually reserved for their customers).

Plus I don't recall ACM's actually experiencing the oscillation issue, but that could be my faulty memory.

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15 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Plus I don't recall ACM's actually experiencing the oscillation issue, but that could be my faulty memory.

EUC Guy, June 2017 (I quote):

Moderator notice, June 24th 2017:  Apparently motorcode is not a reliable way to know if your wheel is affected, the motors might have numbers going back to 2016 (like 1608) and still be affected. Basically if you've bought an MSuper, ACM (and/or maybe Monster) since sometime in start of May 2017, your wheel might be affected. You need some other way to establish when the wheel was built, apparently there's another code somewhere, maybe on the box it was shipped with. 1705 (2017 05, 2017 May) seems to be the magic number, basically any way to make sure that your wheel was or wasn't built after beginning of May.

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11 minutes ago, Toshio Uemura said:

EUC Guy, June 2017 (I quote):

Moderator notice, June 24th 2017:  Apparently motorcode is not a reliable way to know if your wheel is affected, the motors might have numbers going back to 2016 (like 1608) and still be affected. Basically if you've bought an MSuper, ACM (and/or maybe Monster) since sometime in start of May 2017, your wheel might be affected. You need some other way to establish when the wheel was built, apparently there's another code somewhere, maybe on the box it was shipped with. 1705 (2017 05, 2017 May) seems to be the magic number, basically any way to make sure that your wheel was or wasn't built after beginning of May.

Yeah, ACM and Monster where affected, too. And yip, later it was found out that the production date of the Wheel (on the box) was the date to look after.

But here in this case, with a board produced in June....this Wheel can not be send out late May. So i also would say this Msuper can not be affected...

Edited by US69
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Motor code (= motor production date) naturally does not matter as it was a firmware (= board) error. But if you say production date matters, I believe you. The serial number (with the production/assembly date) is on the sticker on the box, usually the one below the bar code, and also on some certificate thing that was in the box.

Now that I remember more closely oops, the bad production dates started around April 20th and ended in May, right? 23rd June (board date) is far enough away from that and the production date has to be after that.

So it looks indeed like the wheel is safe from oscillation! And otherwise good! Sorry for the alarm.

Edited by meepmeepmayer
clarification
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16 minutes ago, US69 said:

Yeah, ACM and Monster where affected, too. And yip, later it was found out that the production date of the Wheel (on the box) was the date to look after.

But here in this case, with a board produced in June....this Wheel can not be send out late May. So i also would say this Msuper can not be affected...

I don’t know if this helps: Here are my two boards (the old one from May ‘17 that supposedly was effected - even though I had no issues riding it - and the new one from June ‘17, the one GW send me for replacement)

image.jpeg.710f4ca0911aa15e5ff6cacd2052bbfc.jpegimage.jpeg.6aa7a2eefab5a989452610426aaddc10.jpeg

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Thank you, all!!!

I took a snap of the shipping box. Not sure what to make of it. I think I'm following the naming schema. And I understand that the motor code doesn't affect much. But the build date is way ahead of the date on the controller board. @meepmeepmayer I'll revisit the yellow connector tonight and take a peak under the duct tape... -Mike V.IMG_0665.thumb.jpg.f4bf1e1d34a14df58aa2d629cfbb2618.jpg

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@meepmeepmayer The yellow wire is just showing residue of some sort (guessing tape). Underneath the duct tape was a broken-off plastic bit where the top-right controller board screw would've gone in. The duct tape was also draped over that area of the controller board and holding the screw in-place...

Off-hand, can anyone identify this issue? The sensation is that something is loosened and shifting back and forth, when you hear the sound. I took the covers off today and everything seemed fine. There was nothing that was obviously loose. I checked one side of the axel nut (though that was incidental; I hadn't noticed this at the time). It's almost like the pedal structure is decoupled from the drivetrain. I feel like it's almost certain that I'm going to have to go deeper on the wheel disassembly:efef77eaf5:

 

 

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Is this new behavior?

Before you worry about axle nuts and disassembly, this might very well be a loose board. Loose board = bumpy, bucking or (worst case) oscillating wheel. Looking at the evidence, I'd say this is the likely cause here. Make sure the board is absolutely bombtight, and if you have to epoxy it to the shell.

@Shad0z@Marty Backe can say more about this symptom, I believe.

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2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Is this new behavior?

Before you worry about axle nuts and disassembly, this might very well be a loose board. Loose board = bumpy, bucking or (worst case) oscillating wheel. Looking at the evidence, I'd say this is the likely cause here. Make sure the board is absolutely bombtight, and if you have to epoxy it to the shell.

@Shad0z@Marty Backe can say more about this symptom, I believe.

That is not the symptom of a loose board. Surely that's a loose nut/worn shims. I'd bet money on it.

A loose control board causes the wheel to vibrate and shake, potentially violently. That's not what the video is showing.

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@meepmeepmayer @Marty Backe @Shad0z

The board is extremely stable, as far as I can tell... I suspect that we're on the right track w/ shims and nuts and will open it up to investigate.

The question I don't want to ask now is whether or not any of you think it's likely that this wheel was only ridden for 1 mile, as advertised, went down in a crash and ended up like this. Unless Gotway QC is typical enough to include a broken standoff for the controller board (and then duct taping the broken piece to the interior compartment, for what purpose I have no idea), it seems hard to believe that the seller's description was accurate. Marty, fwiw, the seller informed me that he also sold you your first wheel. So I don't want to cast aspersions. But this is not the experience I was hoping for.

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2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Oh I know exactly who you're talking about. Dion. I used to recommend him back in the early days, and his videos inspired me to buy my first wheel. Unfortunately his commitment as a dealer really faltered over time, and I thought he got out of the EUC game.

There's another local rider (@n2eus) in Orange county which had a more recent bad experience with him. He had a MSuper which had problems from the beginning, and eventually Dion took the wheel back. What's funny (but sad for you), is that I suspect he has sold the bad wheel to you, to recoup his money What do you think Dan? Could @MikeV have your wheel?

Frankly, I think you should cast aspersions. It does no good for the community if we don't shine light on bad dealers or good dealers that have good bad.

The dangers of buying from EBay vs established dealers. I think you've been resold a known lemon. Mind you, these are my suspicions. I obviously have no first had experience with your circumstance.

Sorry for sour news :(

No, mine destroyed itself.  @MikeV, in your first photo, the axle nut appears to be backed off the shaft a few threads.  The nut is flush with the end of the shaft on mine.

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8 minutes ago, n2eus said:

No, mine destroyed itself.  @MikeV, in your first photo, the axle nut appears to be backed off the shaft a few threads.  The nut is flush with the end of the shaft on mine.

Going to check now...

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It looks like @Marty Backe wins the prize.

 

Fwiw, the seller is tracking this thread and I've asked him to consider chiming in. He's offered a $100 reimbursement, if I feel that he's been dishonest. While it's a nice gesture, I'm not after money. What I would really like to know is how a 1-mile ride resulted in so many screws getting stripped out, one of the controller board standoffs getting snapped off and how the accident required the motor to be replaced. If you look at the cosmetics on original eBay listing, it's just slightly scuffed up. 

It would've been a lot easier to swallow, had he just said, "The motor was bad and threw the rider off. I replaced it and put 10 miles on it myself to make sure everything was okay. Yadda yadda..." 

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@myfunwheel I just replied to you over eBay and am just requesting to know the full backstory of the wheel and how it came to be in its current condition. Thanks, in advance and I'm glad you were able to reply here as well...

@Marty Backe Thank you for the video. Are you aware of torque specs for the axle nut? Do you offer service yourself?

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