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New toy, Msuper X experience...


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43 minutes ago, lutz said:

Acturbo, this is a very sci-fi look suddenly.

Lol.  Yea didn't really have a direction.  3 Coats black and 2 coats copper and that's what came out.................................

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3 minutes ago, Edddeus said:

@Acturbo, nice MSX, what was the cause of the crash at 30MPH? How does the MSX compare to the Dualtron you are selling?

 

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7 hours ago, Edddeus said:

 

It was not the wheels fault it was mine.  I was accelerating and hit an invisible bump which forced me to lean even further forward(overlean perhaps) and it cut out and i ended up on the ground.  Thankfully the only injury I sustained was a few scratches and an injured tailbone.  Had wrist guards, elbow pads, knee and shin guards..........

The dualtron is very nice its just not practical for me in my area.  I just prefer to ride the EUC as opposed to the scooter.  It's hella fast and stable but I just find I'm not using it very much and prefer the feel of riding the EUC.  It was kind of an impulse buy.................................

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2 hours ago, Acturbo said:

It was not the wheels fault it was mine.  I was accelerating and hit an invisible bump which forced me to lean even further forward(overlean perhaps) and it cut out and i ended up on the ground.  Thankfully the only injury I sustained was a few scratches and an injured tailbone.  Had wrist guards, elbow pads, knee and shin guards......

I found myself in the exact same situation a couple of week ago. I accelerated to make a light and hit a dip that threw me forward such that I accelerated to 29 mph. Fortunately my KS18L forces you to set tilt-back and mine was set at 29 mph. The tilt-back was so severe it righted me and slowed me down enough to be out of danger. If I had been on the level over speeding It might had thrown me off the back if I was caught unexpectedly, but for that situation it saved me. 

I use to think tilt-back was "Big Brother" micro managing my ride. I now feel that we are suppose to manage our rides with alarms and tilt-back is the last ditch mechanism that is always better than cut-off. I now set my one alarm at 28 mph which is as fast as I ever want to go. So when I hear that alarm I know that's it .. back the freak down. If something goes wrong and I accelerate passed that I have tilt-back set at 30 mph. That gives me a little wiggle room before cutoff.

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15 hours ago, Acturbo said:

Been loving my MSX for the 2 months I've owned it(except for the 30mph crash).  And when you get bored or scratch it just apply a little bit of color and thought and walaa...........

MSX.jpg

Nice. I like the coppery finish. Did you paint the pedals also? I vinyl wrapped one of my older learning wheels to spruce it up for my son to carry off to college with him. Came out okay,  but I wish that I was better at painting. I would have opted for painting instead of wrapping, because it would have been easier than dismantling the entire wheel to separate the shell to apply the vinyl. 

3RmHdt8h.jpg

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57 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

Nice. I like the coppery finish. Did you paint the pedals also? I vinyl wrapped one of my older learning wheels to spruce it up for my son to carry off to college with him. Came out okay,  but I wish that I was better at painting. I would have opted for painting instead of wrapping, because it would have been easier than dismantling the entire wheel to separate the shell to apply the vinyl. 

3RmHdt8h.jpg

you could of painted it iron Man colours as i see a resemblance ?

 

Screenshot_2018-09-23-20-59-34.png

Screenshot_2018-09-23-21-02-31.png

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17 hours ago, Acturbo said:

Been loving my MSX for the 2 months I've owned it(except for the 30mph crash).  And when you get bored or scratch it just apply a little bit of color and thought and walaa...........

MSX.jpg

Looks good man, I can only imagine the work that went into it. I dont have that much patience, lol.

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4 hours ago, Lutalo said:

Nice. I like the coppery finish. Did you paint the pedals also? I vinyl wrapped one of my older learning wheels to spruce it up for my son to carry off to college with him. Came out okay,  but I wish that I was better at painting. I would have opted for painting instead of wrapping, because it would have been easier than dismantling the entire wheel to separate the shell to apply the vinyl. 

3RmHdt8h.jpg

Yup I painted the pedals as well.  Everyone is saying how hard it must have been, it was quite simple.  I only removed the trolley handle, pedals, side panels, and pads(one was already removed for me during the crash).  Total working time(not counting just waiting for things to dry between coats) was probably like 3 hours.  

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40 minutes ago, Acturbo said:

Yup I painted the pedals as well.  Everyone is saying how hard it must have been, it was quite simple.  I only removed the trolley handle, pedals, side panels, and pads(one was already removed for me during the crash).  Total working time(not counting just waiting for things to dry between coats) was probably like 3 hours.  

Cool. Since this photo, I have pulled the vinyl off and painted the pedals Black. I used plasti-dip, black. It looked okay when I finished, but it has been about a month since I have seen the wheel - so not exactly sure how it has held up. If it hasn't, I will try some real paint over my son's winter break.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Having received my MSX from @myfunwheel yesterday and put around 30 miles on it, I have a few initial observations. Also, keep in mind that I'm a fairly inexperienced rider.

The performance is definitely there. I only have my short-lived V3s to compare it with. But it is 'hands down' a smoother experience. That difference may be the result of issues that I was having w/ my V3 however (and not indicative of overall V3s performance). So I don't know.

I agree with other sentiments about the plastic on the MSX being thinner than the V3. It doesn't feel weak, per se. But it definitely doesn't feel as sturdy.

The wiring is along the same lines as the V3 and in the same league as KS. In that, I mean to say that I believe they're both miles away from the fit and finish of Ninebot. Looking at the teardown of the Z10, there's no comparison. Both GW and KS, in my opinion, look like science fair projects relative to NB.

The active cooling over the mosfets is interesting. And it's cool to hear the little fan spin up. But to me, that's also a signal that active cooling may be required for the mosfets which is definitely a concern.     A: Those 20mm fans aren't exactly known for longevity. GW may be using server-grade fans. When I have the case open again, I'll see if I can find a manufacturer/model #.     B: Why not use mosfets that are overspec'd and have more headroom to begin with? The idea of a cascading failure will be in the back of my mind now, especially cruising along at 20mph+...

Until that day comes, I plan to keep enjoying this and all of the looks and comments that come with it ;)

@Marty Backe Looking forward to Cogswell!

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2 minutes ago, MikeV said:

Having received my MSX from @myfunwheel yesterday and put around 30 miles on it, I have a few initial observations. Also, keep in mind that I'm a fairly inexperienced rider.

The performance is definitely there. I only have my short-lived V3s to compare it with. But it is 'hands down' a smoother experience. That difference may be the result of issues that I was having w/ my V3 however (and not indicative of overall V3s performance). So I don't know.

I agree with other sentiments about the plastic on the MSX being thinner than the V3. It doesn't feel weak, per se. But it definitely doesn't feel as sturdy.

The wiring is along the same lines as the V3 and in the same league as KS. In that, I mean to say that I believe they're both miles away from the fit and finish of Ninebot. Looking at the teardown of the Z10, there's no comparison. Both GW and KS, in my opinion, look like science fair projects relative to NB.

The active cooling over the mosfets is interesting. And it's cool to hear the little fan spin up. But to me, that's also a signal that active cooling may be required for the mosfets which is definitely a concern.     A: Those 20mm fans aren't exactly known for longevity. GW may be using server-grade fans. When I have the case open again, I'll see if I can find a manufacturer/model #.     B: Why not use mosfets that are overspec'd and have more headroom to begin with? The idea of a cascading failure will be in the back of my mind now, especially cruising along at 20mph+...

Until that day comes, I plan to keep enjoying this and all of the looks and comments that come with it ;)

@Marty Backe Looking forward to Cogswell!

Glad to hear!!  Enjoy riding:). The x is in a class of its own when it comes to performance:)

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1 hour ago, MikeV said:

Having received my MSX from @myfunwheel yesterday and put around 30 miles on it, I have a few initial observations. Also, keep in mind that I'm a fairly inexperienced rider.

The performance is definitely there. I only have my short-lived V3s to compare it with. But it is 'hands down' a smoother experience. That difference may be the result of issues that I was having w/ my V3 however (and not indicative of overall V3s performance). So I don't know.

I agree with other sentiments about the plastic on the MSX being thinner than the V3. It doesn't feel weak, per se. But it definitely doesn't feel as sturdy.

The wiring is along the same lines as the V3 and in the same league as KS. In that, I mean to say that I believe they're both miles away from the fit and finish of Ninebot. Looking at the teardown of the Z10, there's no comparison. Both GW and KS, in my opinion, look like science fair projects relative to NB.

The active cooling over the mosfets is interesting. And it's cool to hear the little fan spin up. But to me, that's also a signal that active cooling may be required for the mosfets which is definitely a concern.     A: Those 20mm fans aren't exactly known for longevity. GW may be using server-grade fans. When I have the case open again, I'll see if I can find a manufacturer/model #.     B: Why not use mosfets that are overspec'd and have more headroom to begin with? The idea of a cascading failure will be in the back of my mind now, especially cruising along at 20mph+...

Until that day comes, I plan to keep enjoying this and all of the looks and comments that come with it ;)

@Marty Backe Looking forward to Cogswell!

Good to hear you're riding!

You're joining us at Cogswell? Fantastic! It'll be a memorable ride I can assure you. Remember to bring plenty of liquids, some food, and layering to deal with differences in temperatures. See you in a ~week.

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8 hours ago, MikeV said:

B: Why not use mosfets that are overspec'd and have more headroom to begin with?

The MSX has the beefiest and most overspec’d Mosfets on the EUC market. And it is one if not the coolest running wheels under stress. So no need to worry about the Mosfets at least!

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On 10/4/2018 at 3:27 PM, Lutalo said:

To which particular KS does this sentiment refer my good man?

I think it was the 18L. It was a model w/ the pcb on the top of the shell. Tbh, I don't know the differences between all of the models. But I remember thinking, "Everyone says that the wiring in the KS wheels is light years ahead of GW. But I'm not seeing it." Then, a few weeks later, I found the Russian teardown of the Z10 and thought, "THAT'S what a wiring layout should look like!"

I snipped two pics; one from an 18L and one from a Z10 (we'll leave out the MSX so that my pride isn't too hurt lol).

*This guy is definitely ahead of GW. I don't know the timeline of their evolution. But the threaded brass(?) inserts are present. The board is placed where the elements shouldn't be too much of a concern (definitely not [pick-your-element]-proof, however. The channels for wiring look like more of a byproduct of removing material for weight/cost savings.

18L.thumb.JPG.abedbdf85ae122531775679ae6a6920f.JPG

*This is in an entirely different league of fit and finish. An earlier photo showed allen/hex bolts being used. The bottom-right red/black, twisted pair wires have had actual channels molded into the casing for routing purposes! That is attention to detail :) Their appears to be (can't remember name of foamy material) lining the shell for water resistance, with a 2nd, internal layer for the pcb's and other components:) Lastly, they're using a bridge between the multipin pcb connector and the external chamber... This is a >very< well-engineered product. 

Z10.thumb.JPG.3f691c6c0df052eca9a62900f3a8f25d.JPG

Not sure what they're doing for heat removal. But the low-hanging fruit would be to use a heat sink on the backside of the pcb and allow the naturally circulating air from the wheel to do the cooling. Only issue there would be low-speed, high-load where air flow wasn't able to do its job. I believe @Marty Backe experienced this on his stress test ride... Ninebot, take note and fix in firmware update or hardware in next iteration.

On 10/4/2018 at 7:36 PM, mrelwood said:

The MSX has the beefiest and most overspec’d Mosfets on the EUC market. And it is one if not the coolest running wheels under stress. So no need to worry about the Mosfets at least!

As it should be. So the question then becomes:

A: Is the fan there to perform a required function (heat removal)?

B: Is the fan there to perform an auxiliary function (additional heat removal)?

C: Is the fan there to reassure riders that 'Gotway is on top of things' (good feels, rather than either A or B)?

If it >is< A or B, that's not good. Again, cascading failure. The test, if anyone is brave enough, is to simulate the cascade and disconnect the fan and observe heat buildup under load. Then we'll know if A or B or largely C. Also again, 20mm fans aren't known for longevity (and that's just in a server environment, not a bumpy, shocky one). Lots of unknowns there...

Also, if it is A or B, is the fan a better solution than the heat sink mounted to the (cast aluminum!) motor pillar on the V3s? I'm guessing: maybe. There's a reason CPU cooling manufacturers make heat sinks out of extruded aluminum (or milled from billet in the high-end cases), rather than a cast material. Casting is cheap but also porous (poor heat transfer). Casting is also strong and light but not tough. If you get a bad cast and hit the right pothole, you might have a really bad day... In other words, the V3s, with the right cooling conditions may have fared much better ;) 

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2 hours ago, MikeV said:

*This guy is definitely ahead of GW. I don't know the timeline of their evolution. But the threaded brass(?) inserts are present. The board is placed where the elements shouldn't be too much of a concern (definitely not [pick-your-element]-proof, however. The channels for wiring look like more of a byproduct of removing material for weight/cost savings.

18L.thumb.JPG.abedbdf85ae122531775679ae6a6920f.JPG

*This is in an entirely different league of fit and finish. An earlier photo showed allen/hex bolts being used. The bottom-right red/black, twisted pair wires have had actual channels molded into the casing for routing purposes! That is attention to detail :) Their appears to be (can't remember name of foamy material) lining the shell for water resistance, with a 2nd, internal layer for the pcb's and other components:) Lastly, they're using a bridge between the multipin pcb connector and the external chamber... This is a >very< well-engineered product. 

This is the 18L in the photo. I definitely agree that the 9B Country Boy (Z10) has a design advantage in terms of routing neatness around the control board. All the wiring enters the board from one side with well hidden patterns beyond that. It's a good-looking  and very clever set-up. Assuming that it dissipates heat properly and is not prone to water damage; very nice job.

I haven't really heard of any overheat issues with the Z10. However, I don't really follow the threads on the Z10 because I do not find the wheel appealing. 

The wiring near the control board on the 18L is exposed when the shell cap is removed. The wires run across the top of the board. Nevertheless, the wires on the 18L are very neatly channeled across the top of the control board; as far as that routing method goes. Still, I prefer the look of the control board wire routing design of the Z10 to the 18L. 

I have watched the available teardown videos of the 18L, MSX, and Z10. I have also removed on several occasions the outer cover on my own KS 18L.

I think that the Z10's routing design advantage ends beyond the routing of the wires going into the control board. From what I have seen, the 18L and Z10 are equivalent in terms of the neatness and design attention to detail underneath the outer shell on the sides of the wheel.

The MSX is a great wheel, but it has some distance to travel with regard to attention to detail in order to match the 18L and Z10. This has all been said before, and people who love the MSX don't seem to care that much about it anyway.

So, congratulations on your purchase. Enjoy it. 

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22 hours ago, MikeV said:

The bottom-right red/black, twisted pair wires have had actual channels molded into the casing for routing purposes! That is attention to detail :) Their appears to be (can't remember name of foamy material) lining the shell for water resistance, with a 2nd, internal layer for the pcb's and other components:) Lastly, they're using a bridge between the multipin pcb connector and the external chamber... This is a >very< well-engineered product. 

Z10.thumb.JPG.3f691c6c0df052eca9a62900f3a8f25d.JPG

Not sure what they're doing for heat removal. But the low-hanging fruit would be to use a heat sink on the backside of the pcb and allow the naturally circulating air from the wheel to do the cooling. Only issue there would be low-speed, high-load where air flow wasn't able to do its job.

The other thing is that I believe that before KS got into the unicycle game they were computer hardware manufacturers. While EUC design is a new application for them, their experience and expertise in making boards is substantial.

Although, at the end if the day,  I cannot see KS being able to match the resource capability of a large company like 9B, I think that their board-making SME status puts them at the top of the game in making what is essentially a low volume specialty item; consequently, a probable reason 9B doesn't make more EUC models. 

I love the side-loaded fasteners used on the 9B. They look fabulous and enable a neat channeling flow of the wiring going into the main board. I wonder why KS, given their SME status, does not use side-loaded clips as well.

My pseudo-educated guess is that side-loaded clips, like the ones used on the 9B just wouldn't work as well as top-loaded clips when the board is mounted at the top of the wheel; a mounting position with which KS has been consistent from the beginning. 

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On 10/4/2018 at 3:45 PM, Marty Backe said:

Good to hear you're riding!

You're joining us at Cogswell? Fantastic! It'll be a memorable ride I can assure you. Remember to bring plenty of liquids, some food, and layering to deal with differences in temperatures. See you in a ~week.

man..... Im so jealous of your group rides, lol. I just came back from Solo 35min. ride, would have been so much more fun to ride with others. MSX is something else, this machine just puts a smile on my face like nothing else, seriously, the power, smoothness and effortless performance just surprises me each time, unbelievable....

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On 8/23/2018 at 4:21 AM, yourtoys7 said:

I sure will, but Im confident I will hit 55 km/h fairly easy...

Absolutely, I accelerated up to 59.6 app speed and did not hear the beeps even, 84v variant can only imagine 100v will do a couple more..

50km/h on this feels very comfy and safe to ride under transportation but do wish the warning could cut through like on the V10F and much more audible, not like I gonna feel any phone vibrate either so?

But anyways, yeah if you are at 90 kilos or less and right conditions it sure will, app speed that is not a clue whet that mean in real speed but I did test again my friend in 2 different cars on 2 occasions and unless both cars speedometer lie it should be within range at least. This wheel is fast, perhaps 100v is faster but it sure is not going to out accelerate and out maneuver it great middle ground imho and that smoothness and stability without getting ridiculous in size.

Just to be clear, not knocking the Monster, I want one myself but it's not for me and just dragging the MSX up/down the stairs each day...

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Yesterday was my first ride on MSX 84V, 1600Wh. Coming from Msuper V3.
In the beginning it felt strange, a little unstable at low speeds, weird pedal height and angle, bad padding, and pretty wide body, hurting my ankles. And got the tiltback kick in at probably 25km/h. It is also very rigid in the default setting. Had to set it to "leisure" to get some more feedback. Switched off the tiltback and the 1st and 2nd alarm. And finally enjoyed the speed it is built for. It accelerates like from another planet. Feels very stable at 40km/h - did't go any faster on the first ride.

An incredible machine!

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On 10/8/2018 at 2:05 AM, yourtoys7 said:

man..... Im so jealous of your group rides, lol. I just came back from Solo 35min. ride, would have been so much more fun to ride with others. MSX is something else, this machine just puts a smile on my face like nothing else, seriously, the power, smoothness and effortless performance just surprises me each time, unbelievable....

Same here, I feel with you. Would cut my finger of for going from badass Germany to LA riding the locations where Marty is riding at with his group sometimes. 

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8 hours ago, Peter Ibach said:

Yesterday was my first ride on MSX 84V, 1600Wh. Coming from Msuper V3.
In the beginning it felt strange, a little unstable at low speeds, weird pedal height and angle, bad padding, and pretty wide body, hurting my ankles. And got the tiltback kick in at probably 25km/h. It is also very rigid in the default setting. Had to set it to "leisure" to get some more feedback. Switched off the tiltback and the 1st and 2nd alarm. And finally enjoyed the speed it is built for. It accelerates like from another planet. Feels very stable at 40km/h - did't go any faster on the first ride.

An incredible machine!

Funny thing is when some say there isn't much difference between these machines, but I was like you, Very, Very different machine in a good way :) 

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