New toy, Msuper X experience...

[eddiemoy]

34 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Thanks for your little dose of reality   It's great to have the backstory behind a picture. Here @eddiemoy is using your picture to imply that the shell is crap, but then we learn that no, it has some damage from a head-on collision. Let's try and be a little more fair in our reporting Eddie.

I don't think that anyone who buys a Gotway is expecting KingSong build quality. Gotway still has a long way to go, yet the MSX is an improvement over previous models. Just as they added threaded inserts they will eventually start to work on their wiring harness.

Given the various complaints, it's amazing that so many people somehow figure out how to get outside and just have fun with the wheel 

Chris didn't elaborate on the story, he just mention he dropped it.  But thanks @dieterGRAMS (Chris) for elaborating.  I still think the shell going to hold up all that well.  I've notice also the 18L shell isn't as good as the 18S.  Maybe they are all skimping on the materials.  The KS 16 and 18S I have are both built like a tank.  plastic just keeps coming off, but haven't found any crack yet.

[dieterGRAMS]

2 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Chris didn't elaborate on the story, he just mention he dropped it.  But thanks @dieterGRAMS (Chris) for elaborating.  I still think the shell going to hold up all that well.  I've notice also the 18L shell isn't as good as the 18S.  Maybe they are all skimping on the materials.  The KS 16 and 18S I have are both built like a tank.  plastic just keeps coming off, but haven't found any crack yet.

I think the plastic on Kingsong wheels is a little softer than Gotway's. Mick had some gnarly gashes on his 18l shell. Where the gotway will have scratches. Each have their pro's and con's. I will say the heads on these shell screws are super small. 

[eddiemoy]

3 minutes ago, dieterGRAMS said:

I think the plastic on Kingsong wheels is a little softer than Gotway's. Mick had some gnarly gashes on his 18l shell. Where the gotway will have scratches. Each have their pro's and con's. I will say the heads on these shell screws are super small. 

I have cracks on the middle screws already.  I would be surprised if those break off first.  

[dieterGRAMS]

6 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I have cracks on the middle screws already.  I would be surprised if those break off first.  

Wow man. The quality IS all over the place. I think I have the only seat that fits securely. Everyone else's has fallen off 

[Marcglider]

If I was going to buy a New Car, a Chinese manufacturer would not be on my list.... If Quality was my primary issue I don't think there are any better than the German engineers... Since we are stuck at the moment with Chinese as our only choices, pick you criteria, pick your manufacturer and cross your fingers... I am enjoying all my new wheels Immensely and that aspect is where my attention will stay for now... 

[eddiemoy]

45 minutes ago, dieterGRAMS said:

Wow man. The quality IS all over the place. I think I have the only seat that fits securely. Everyone else's has fallen off 

yeh, wiktor had to pay for a new one.  LOL  that was an expensive korean dinner for him!

[eddiemoy]

1 hour ago, Marcglider said:

If I was going to buy a New Car, a Chinese manufacturer would not be on my list.... If Quality was my primary issue I don't think there are any better than the German engineers... Since we are stuck at the moment with Chinese as our only choices, pick you criteria, pick your manufacturer and cross your fingers... I am enjoying all my new wheels Immensely and that aspect is where my attention will stay for now... 

China is known for cheap manufacturing.  But it isn't all bad, depends on who is doing the design and tooling.  Some high quality products coming from China.  Inmotion, Ninebot, King Song,... LOL  Sorry, couldn't put GW on the list.  

 

[Marcglider]

10 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Some high quality products coming from China.  Inmotion, Ninebot, King Song,... LOL  Sorry, couldn't put GW on the list.  

Interesting you would put Inmotion in the "high quality" category with the stuff going on right now, I don't need to elaborate as many posts on this forum are doing fine on their own... I do not own any of their products, and I own products from all the other companies on your list, I have one thing to remark about Inmotion... If the continuing "spontaneous combustion" issues are correct and true, then the fact that they are continuing to request receipt of their wheels and sending out shipping labels is DEEPLY DISTURBING! Maybe a FedEX truck or airline carrying their product having a fire break out will get their attention! 

[tadrossi]

13 hours ago, Edddeus said:

@Marty Backe and @yourtoys7 , have you guys seen @eddiemoy recent 100V MSX tear down video? He doesn't seem happy with it at all, regarding the quality.

He never is when it comes to Gotway

[eddiemoy]

3 minutes ago, Marcglider said:

Interesting you would put Inmotion in the "high quality" category with the stuff going on right now, I don't need to elaborate as many posts on this forum are doing fine on their own... I do not own any of their products, and I own products from all the other companies on your list, I have one thing to remark about Inmotion... If the continuing "spontaneous combustion" issues are correct and true, then the fact that they are continuing to request receipt of their wheels and sending out shipping labels is DEEPLY DISTURBING! Maybe a FedEX truck or airline carrying their product having a fire break out will get their attention! 

like the charging smoking isn't an issue with GW?  As far as I heard there was only one fire and those folks charged it when told not to.  There products solid.  So maybe they skipped a step in the V10F, they are working to resolve the first bath stuff.  I'm still waiting for mine turn on the recall list.  

 

[eddiemoy]

3 minutes ago, tadrossi said:

He never is when it comes to Gotway

I just choose not to ignore the obvious shortcomings like so many who buy Gotway.  I'm not saying anything that isn't true.  It isn't like I'm making stuff up.  I don't understand some Gotway owners.  Open your eyes.  

[Xoltri]

2 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I just choose not to ignore the obvious shortcomings like so many who buy Gotway.  I'm not saying anything that isn't true.  It isn't like I'm making stuff up.  I don't understand some Gotway owners.  Open your eyes.  

Well, it is tiring seeing you ignoring the shortcomings of other wheels while highlighting those of Gotway for some reason.  There have been many problems with the 18L - lockups and overheating (with no fix, just a firmware patch workaround), burned out headlights, trolley sensors not working, tire rubbing on shell, now reports of one having oscillation at speed...the list goes on.

Where as with the MSX.  What, some wires aren't neatly routed and the shell gets damaged from crashes or shipping damage?  Somehow this wiring is fine on the 18L: 

But this on the MSX is not:

 

I guess bottom line is we have a long way to go on all wheels in regards to improved quality, but check your bias sometimes!

[eddiemoy]

48 minutes ago, Xoltri said:

Well, it is tiring seeing you ignoring the shortcomings of other wheels while highlighting those of Gotway for some reason.  There have been many problems with the 18L - lockups and overheating (with no fix, just a firmware patch workaround), burned out headlights, trolley sensors not working, tire rubbing on shell, now reports of one having oscillation at speed...the list goes on.

Where as with the MSX.  What, some wires aren't neatly routed and the shell gets damaged from crashes or shipping damage?  Somehow this wiring is fine on the 18L: 

But this on the MSX is not:

 

I guess bottom line is we have a long way to go on all wheels in regards to improved quality, but check your bias sometimes!

Haven't ignored the launch issues of the KS18L.  I've been on the threads.  Haven't tired to hide them either.  I call out all the issues as I see them.  I've called out the issue Inmotion V10F too.  Seems like you just choose to filter out only the comments I have for GW.  

Yes, the KS cabling is much better than the GW cabling.  everything is tied down.  not loosy goosy 

[Michael Tucker]

Gotway's diversity is their great strength, but is a double edged sword. Sometimes it seems as if Gotway has different factories or subcontractors building  each model of wheel. I have both an Mten3 and a Luffy. The build quality is night and day. The Luffy is made of very solid plastic. No creaking or flexing, even when riding with one foot. When I throw it in the backseat of my car no rattling. Inside the Luffy is cleanly designed and assembled. The Mten3 is like a bucket of bolts, its sound and feel is not confidence inspiring. Its flimsy and jam packed on the inside.

The Mten3 still performs. Been riden to death, many nasty crashes (trick wheel) and has no cracks, pads have no tears, motor, board, battery all okay. Even my Ninebot One E+ tore a pad on day 2 of riding.

Perhaps Gotway could have a premium line like Toyota/Lexus. For those who want the solid Gotway performance but with a premium feel, classier cases and tighter design and build...a few hundred dollars more. On their mainstream wheels they could skimp even more on things to get just the raw performance. They would capture both markets! Maybe even kits, where we could buy components to build custom wheels with quality of our own choice. Then we could wire route ourselves.

 

[Xoltri]

[Lutalo]

4 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

I've notice also the 18L shell isn't as good as the 18S.  Maybe they are all skimping on the materials.  The KS 16 and 18S I have are both built like a tank. 

In terms of the type of plastic used, I think the shell quality seems the same to me between the 18s and 18L.

I am not an engineer,  but the single-shell design of the 18S may be inherently more durable than the dual outer and inner shell set-up of the 18L. The set-up also makes the 18S a pain in the ass to do any maintenance that involves any measure if a tear-down. I vinyl wrapped one of mine and it was truly a nightmare. The 18L is much easier to live with than the 18S in that regard.

[Lutalo]

IMHO KS wheels are manufactured to a very high standard - the highest in the industry as far as I am concerned. That is the reason that I own several of them.  I agree with @eddiemoy that presentation says something important about standards. Poor presentation is disconcerting, like an unkempt, foul-smelling man wearing a very nice clean suit, or a dentist with shitty breath. Anyone that doesn't agree has that right,  but my position stands. 

Wheel Lockup

While it is unfortunate for any wheel to have a lockup, the problem with the wheel lockup was not widespread, it was relatively few wheels from the first batch shipments. @US69 has mentioned this fact on several occasions. To my knowledge none of the subsequent wheel batches (I don't know how many there have been) of wheels have had this lockup problem. 

FWV1.11

Yes, the FW is a workaround. However because the issue itself is not firmware-related, it will require the moving and replacement of hardware. As an actual fix involves parts shipping and installationbut, v1.11 is a way for KS to identify and target specific wheels that have been affected for repair. Affected owners can continue to use their wheels while they wait for the replacement part - You say that its fumbling, but I say that it is clever - whatever Trevor.

Short of a total recall, how else could they have addressed the lockup problem once it became apparent that the issue was not related to FW? How many of us have a local dealer handy? KS has, up to this point been diligent and transparent in handling the problem. Perhaps the KS haters/critics foaming at the glands for a flaw in KS wheels, could for a moment stop and appreciate this fact. Does GW handle problems with this much class? ?????

Lift Sensor

The lift sensor is a new feature added in response to consumer demand. The 1st round of New technology features is often buggy. 

Trolley Handle

The trolley handle problem was a problem with a soft latch mechanism with 1st batch wheels. KS and dealers jumped right on it with replacements. @Jason McNeil posted on the forum about the issue before I even received my wheel. He shipped to me a replacement. I installed it and have had no further issues with lifting the wheel. I have stated my opinion that the KS18L has the best trolley handle in the business numerous times. 

Wheel Rubbing

I think that I may have seen two reports on a thread about something like this with the 2d batch and beyond wheels that no longer use Kendas. Since I have a 1st batch wheel with Kendas........  ???

Conclusion

As has been said many times previous, we are early adopters, and all of these EUC companies are young yet.

I think that GW fans are rightfully excited about what GW could become with their approach emphasizing pushing the performance envelope. 

KS fans are excited about what KS represents to the industry, bearing the cross with their emphasis on setting the highest quality and safety standards and offering very balanced, well-made machines. KS's approach will hopefully bode this industry well with regulators in most markets once they catch wind of the one-wheeled phenomena. 

All of these companies are too young to have the resources to be everything to everybody.  Let's give them all some room to grow up. Its an exciting time to be buying and riding these wheels. Don't you think?

[Xoltri]

3 hours ago, Lutalo said:

IMHO KS wheels are manufactured to a very high standard - the highest in the industry as far as I am concerned.

Brand loyalty is for suckers IMHO.  Your post is a perfect example.  The structure is <pre formed opinion> then <motivated reasoning>.  If the MSX had half of the problems as the KS18L it would be receiving so much flack on here.  The 18L gets a pass because of course, KimgSong is high quality1!11!!1!  Instead it's the shipping damage, crash damage, and a lack of zip ties (!?) that exemplifies the lack of quality in the latest Gotway wheel.  That is what is frustrating, especially for new people contemplating what wheel to buy out of the two.

3 hours ago, Lutalo said:

All of these companies are too young to have the resources to be everything to everybody.  Let's give them all some room to grow up. Its an exciting time to be buying and riding these wheels. Don't you think?

I agree!

[Lutalo]

1 hour ago, Xoltri said:

Brand loyalty is for suckers IMHO.  Your post is a perfect example.  The structure is <pre formed opinion> then <motivated reasoning>.  If the MSX had half of the problems as the KS18L it would be receiving so much flack on here.  The 18L gets a pass because of course, KimgSong is high quality1!11!!1!  Instead it's the shipping damage, crash damage, and a lack of zip ties (!?) that exemplifies the lack of quality in the latest Gotway wheel.  That is what is frustrating, especially for new people contemplating what wheel to buy out of the two.

LORD HELP ME!???? i am being accused of egregious cognitive biases for thinking that Kingsong produces a quality wheeI.

Your response is a much better example of fanatical brand loyalty. You seem to feel that Gotway has unfairly earned a reputation for poor quality. Apparently, you also feel that an informed opinion requires me grieve this perceived injustice along with you. Be reminded that historical data and context is best qualified to reward all research. In the case of EUCs, reputations are not pulled from within the murky depths of people's asses; they are earned.

Both brands earned their historical reputations,  and yes, it may very well take more than problems with new technology on a relative few first batch wheels to untie such a well-earned reputation for KS - Sadly,  it seems that you find that state of affairs dismaying.

I am thoroughly amused by your complete failure to understand what constitutes a pre-formed opinion, and properly apply the concept, since constructing one would only be possible for me if I had conducted no research about the product and the market,  and made no effort to consider available data before reaching my opinion. Although it is possible to reach biased conclusions with the best data, what would be the motivation for that in this case? Why, fool myself into buying an inferior product due to brand zealotry? 

Since you applied pre-formed opinion completely out of context, motivated reasoning is a product of the same fallacious logic, follows the same path,  and suffers the same fate. We are not religious zealots debating how and when the second coming will occur. We are consumers talking about wheels we like to ride. So, I can't imagine what about this particular issue would cause the cognitive dissonance necessary for me to construct such self-confirming reasoning strategies.

I understand your frustration. You feel that Gotway has become the unfair recipient of lowered expectations. It can be troubling when you think very highly of a product, and others do not share your lofty opinion.

However. You must understand that Any consequences that might be involved in this situation for me are simply not profound enough for the simple-minded self-confirming biases which you have misapplied, and so freely accused.

The only consequence I can see for me is two possible outcomes: I buy a Gotway MSX, or a KS18L. Either way i'm getting a great wheel upon which I will have a fantastic time wheeling around my city. I call that a win-win scenario.☺?

[MikeV]

13 hours ago, Lutalo said:

In terms of the type of plastic used, I think the shell quality seems the same to me between the 18s and 18L.

I am not an engineer,  but the single-shell design of the 18S may be inherently more durable than the dual outer and inner shell set-up of the 18L. The set-up also makes the 18S a pain in the ass to do any maintenance that involves any measure if a tear-down. I vinyl wrapped one of mine and it was truly a nightmare. The 18L is much easier to live with than the 18S in that regard.

I'm not sure if it's a requirement on all plastics. But there's probably a number in the casting that would tell us exactly which plastic is being used. Someone who is super familiar with materials could probably just look at it and tell us. Anyway, once we knew that, we would know the properties of the plastic. Factor in the thickness and we'd know exactly how tough it is. 

[Lutalo]

1 hour ago, MikeV said:

I'm not sure if it's a requirement on all plastics. But there's probably a number in the casting that would tell us exactly which plastic is being used. Someone who is super familiar with materials could probably just look at it and tell us. Anyway, once we knew that, we would know the properties of the plastic. Factor in the thickness and we'd know exactly how tough it is. 

True. It is always good to have sure knowledge. 

[yourtoys7]

over all Im very happy with Gotway, could it get better.... absolutely. Has it, yes I and many others believe that improvements have been made.

[Acturbo]

Been loving my MSX for the 2 months I've owned it(except for the 30mph crash).  And when you get bored or scratch it just apply a little bit of color and thought and walaa...........

[Lutalo]

8 minutes ago, yourtoys7 said:

over all Im very happy with Gotway, could it get better.... absolutely. Has it, yes I and many others believe that improvements have been made.

Each one of these small manufacturers has an incredible opportunity to learn from mistakes, successes and imbed a culture of continuous improvement from the ground up in their manufacturing operations to spur sustainable growth. 

 

[lutz]

Acturbo, this is a very sci-fi look suddenly.