Should I order the Z10 - I am a newbie :-)

[SanDiegoGuy]

Hello folks,

I am a new member here.  Let me introduce myself a bit and then start my questions for guidance.

I am in San Diego, CA.  I have seen people in San Diego with the OneWheel but never on an EUC.  I bet people will start to look at me when I zip by with one of the EUC.

Anyway, I am a total newbie and EUC and have never ridden one.   However, I am willing to learn and I am a fairly quick learner.  Oh, I will get the OneWheel XR sometime this week.  It will be fun this week.

Oh, and I am a short person.  I am only 5' 5" tall and my weight is a measly 130 lb.  I am 50 years old and still young at heart LOL.

 

------------------------------------

O.K.  now onto the EUC topic.  I plan to get 2 EUCs.  One of them will be the GotWay Mten3 after watching Marty's videos and other videos and reviews.  It looks like a fun little EUC and also a good starter device to learn.

Now my dilemma is the second EUC.  I have a hard time deciding between the Z10 and the GotWay MSuperX.  I see that all the veteran riders are anxiously waiting for the Z10 so I do not know if I should get it also.  I have seen reviews on both the Z10 and the MSuperX.  I like the SuperX because it has the ability to have a seat to I can sit down when my legs are tired.  I want options and more options are better.

I can afford 2 EUC on my first EUC purchase so the cost is not of a big factor.  However, I want to get a really good second EUC so I do not have to get a third one for the near future.  

I also want to let my 12 year old son and 14 year old daughter to try to learn the Mten3 so they can ride with me.  Of course, they will be wearing full protective gears when riding.  Is it O.K. for young kids to ride EUC in a non-crowded environment?  Have you seen kids do it or have your own kids ride them?  I will be wearing full protective gears too of course.

Since I have never ridden on an EUC, I do not have a riding style yet so either the Z10 or the SuperX would not require a change in riding habit much.  

 

So what is your advice if you are in my position?  Thank you.

[UniVehje]

I would recommend the Z10 unless you are prepared to modify the wheel yourself and go “under the hood.”

Ninebot will be a more complete package with easy to use app and good quality. For you the MSX will only offer more range. Z10 will feel like a bigger Mten3. 

[SanDiegoGuy]

Spoiler

The Z10 is so much in demand that I will be in the 3rd batch if I decide to order it today.  Wow!

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

 

[EUCMania]

13 hours ago, SanDiegoGuy said:

Hello folks,

I am a new member here.  Let me introduce myself a bit and then start my questions for guidance.

I am in San Diego, CA.  I have seen people in San Diego with the OneWheel but never on an EUC.  I bet people will start to look at me when I zip by with one of the EUC.

Anyway, I am a total newbie and EUC and have never ridden one.   However, I am willing to learn and I am a fairly quick learner.  Oh, I will get the OneWheel XR sometime this week.  It will be fun this week.

Oh, and I am a short person.  I am only 5' 5" tall and my weight is a measly 130 lb.  I am 50 years old and still young at heart LOL.

 

------------------------------------

O.K.  now onto the EUC topic.  I plan to get 2 EUCs.  One of them will be the GotWay Mten3 after watching Marty's videos and other videos and reviews.  It looks like a fun little EUC and also a good starter device to learn.

Now my dilemma is the second EUC.  I have a hard time deciding between the Z10 and the GotWay MSuperX.  I see that all the veteran riders are anxiously waiting for the Z10 so I do not know if I should get it also.  I have seen reviews on both the Z10 and the MSuperX.  I like the SuperX because it has the ability to have a seat to I can sit down when my legs are tired.  I want options and more options are better.

I can afford 2 EUC on my first EUC purchase so the cost is not of a big factor.  However, I want to get a really good second EUC so I do not have to get a third one for the near future.  

I also want to let my 12 year old son and 14 year old daughter to try to learn the Mten3 so they can ride with me.  Of course, they will be wearing full protective gears when riding.  Is it O.K. for young kids to ride EUC in a non-crowded environment?  Have you seen kids do it or have your own kids ride them?  I will be wearing full protective gears too of course.

Since I have never ridden on an EUC, I do not have a riding style yet so either the Z10 or the SuperX would not require a change in riding habit much.  

 

So what is your advice if you are in my position?  Thank you.

Get a second hand EUC to learn. @Marty Backeand others in CA have plenty of them to sell cheaply. After that, you buy new and expensive ones.

[mrelwood]

I like your attitude towards learning, purchasing and wearing protection. You are already at a very good start!

There are varying opinions on wether one should learn with a cheap beater wheel. I think a well padded quality wheel is a better choice, since you’d start to outgrow the beater in as soon as a week.

While I have ridden neither, one thing to note is that both the Mten and Z10 handle unconventionally compared to other EUCs. Learning on a Mten will probably be more difficult, and the skill will not translate as well to other wheels.

The Z10 is the second heaviest EUC, only second to the Monster. You are a light person, so once you get a bit of speed, the Z10 will become the boss of staying upright, even when you wish to turn. If the road tilts sideways, it’ll take a lot of effort to make it go straight. Although I weigh 200lbs, I don’t like to fight the wheel, so I’m pretty sure the Z10 would not be the wheel for me.

That said, since they would be the only wheels you have ridden, you would probably get accustomed to their features.

Depending on where you buy the wheels from, the Z10 might still take several months to be available.

Other than those I’m sure it is a magnificent wheel. But my wild guess would be that the lighter handling of for example the KingSong 18L or a 16” wheel might be beneficial for you.

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, EUCMania said:

Get a second hand EUC to learn. @Marty Backeand others in CA have plenty of them to sell cheaply. After that, you buy new and expensive ones.

 I don't have any to sell.

[Marty Backe]

19 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I like your attitude towards learning, purchasing and wearing protection. You are already at a very good start!

There are varying opinions on wether one should learn with a cheap beater wheel. I think a well padded quality wheel is a better choice, since you’d start to outgrow the beater in as soon as a week.

While I have ridden neither, one thing to note is that both the Mten and Z10 handle unconventionally compared to other EUCs. Learning on a Mten will probably be more difficult, and the skill will not translate as well to other wheels.

The Z10 is the second heaviest EUC, only second to the Monster. You are a light person, so once you get a bit of speed, the Z10 will become the boss of staying upright, even when you wish to turn. If the road tilts sideways, it’ll take a lot of effort to make it go straight. Although I weigh 200lbs, I don’t like to fight the wheel, so I’m pretty sure the Z10 would not be the wheel for me.

That said, since they would be the only wheels you have ridden, you would probably get accustomed to their features.

Depending on where you buy the wheels from, the Z10 might still take several months to be available.

Other than those I’m sure it is a magnificent wheel. But my wild guess would be that the lighter handling of for example the KingSong 18L or a 16” wheel might be beneficial for you.

From my experience, I did not have to fight the wheel to turn. The Z10 takes a different approach to turning, but it's not the struggle that some people may think it is reading your description. IMHO of course 

[Toshio Uemura]

8 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

 I don't have any to sell.

Marty is one of the 1000 Arabian Knights! He loves his harem and is planning to enlarge it, I think ?? 

[Toshio Uemura]

19 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

From my experience, I did not have to fight the wheel to turn. The Z10 takes a different approach to turning, but it's not the struggle that some people may think it is readying your description. IMHO of course 

I can confirm that. You can make penny turns on the Z with no effort. (See my earlier videos). Riding backwards and on one leg is very easy too. So this heaviness is not your enemy; it works for you, as long as you are not trying to go down steep hills on one leg (backward or forward ?)

I am not so sure anymore, if (for an adult!) the Z10 would be a bad wheel to start learning, as long as you put it on a short leach (like a suitcase belt)  so its beauty doesn’t get wasted. But if I had to start all over again, I would get myself an old cheap ACM or E+ until I had gotten the basics and then straight up to the one and only Z.

[awol166]

Its my first wheel too and i am currently learning how to ride. So far i did 100km in 2 days. it took a couple of hours to get used to it and it has been really frustrating in the very beginning, especially the weight of the wheel have been a downer for me. But after you are able to make the first hundred meters on it it gets easier quickly.

i haven't used a strap and my wheel has many scratches already but i believe that i made better progress without it ?

[Ziiten]

1 hour ago, awol166 said:

Its my first wheel too and i am currently learning how to ride. So far i did 100km in 2 days. it took a couple of hours to get used to it and it has been really frustrating in the very beginning, especially the weight of the wheel have been a downer for me. But after you are able to make the first hundred meters on it it gets easier quickly.

i haven't used a strap and my wheel has many scratches already but i believe that i made better progress without it ?

I am more or less in the same place as you, but even more newbie; the beginning feels pretty hard, it is difficult to trust the wheel and its ability to maintain balance and at start the wheels weight feels massive when leaning on your starting leg. I haven't really even started yet but I plan to start on a lawn to make falls softer. Any tips in general?

[awol166]

31 minutes ago, Ziiten said:

I am more or less in the same place as you, but even more newbie; the beginning feels pretty hard, it is difficult to trust the wheel and its ability to maintain balance and at start the wheels weight feels massive when leaning on your starting leg. I haven't really even started yet but I plan to start on a lawn to make falls softer. Any tips in general?

the very first tries i did in my apartment but that was basically just to the very basic movements. After that i went to remote place where i had a 2 km long road without cars or other people and there i practiced for hours. i think this was the key as i was able to ride that road up and down in the end. most times i crashed was with low speed where i couldn't balance the wheel. After 3 days of practicing i am able to ride long ways but getting on and off the wheel and control it with low speed is still tricky and i don't feel comfortable. high speed instead feels safe ?

[Ziiten]

7 hours ago, awol166 said:

the very first tries i did in my apartment but that was basically just to the very basic movements. After that i went to remote place where i had a 2 km long road without cars or other people and there i practiced for hours. i think this was the key as i was able to ride that road up and down in the end. most times i crashed was with low speed where i couldn't balance the wheel. After 3 days of practicing i am able to ride long ways but getting on and off the wheel and control it with low speed is still tricky and i don't feel comfortable. high speed instead feels safe ?

I did some apartment "riding" as well, but when the walls were starting to get too much damage, I stopped doing that. 

[awol166]

18 minutes ago, Ziiten said:

I did some apartment "riding" as well, but when the walls were starting get too much damage, I stopped doing that. 

haha, from my experience a long and straight road without any obstacles is the best for practicing. 

[Ziiten]

11 hours ago, Toshio Uemura said:

I am not so sure anymore, if (for an adult!) the Z10 would be a bad wheel to start learning, as long as you put it on a short leach (like a suitcase belt)  so its beauty doesn’t get wasted. 

I had today my first ever outside experience with any wheel, and man was it a hard and frustrating start; I could not ride two meters without the wheel getting out from under me. After about an hour of practice I was able to do laps on a 100 meters long rectangular shape courtyard. But I think having that belt attached to the wheel and your hand is the best advice. Even chooch recommended it in one of his teaching a beginner vids.

Btw, if you order the wheel from China to EU or US, it will come with a Hong Kong style grounded plug so you'll need to find a desktop computer style power cord or an adapter.

Edit: I can confirm the wheel wobble effect and I am confident that it was due to my shaky or nonstable legs.

[houseofjob]

19 hours ago, mrelwood said:

You are a light person, so once you get a bit of speed, the Z10 will become the boss of staying upright, even when you wish to turn. If the road tilts sideways, it’ll take a lot of effort to make it go straight.

Sorry, don't mean to pile on here, but I concur with @Marty Backe and @Toshio Uemura, the "fighting-to-turn-at-high-speed" is not exactly what you think, if you haven't ridden.

It's not a resistance fighting, because the overall maneuvering and motion / feel of the Z, even at high speeds, turn or no turn, is always very smooth.

The fighting-to-high-speed-turn is more based on the physics of the Z body and the Z tire width.

On your regular 2.125" or even 2.5" wide tire, the smallest of leg/hip movements will flip the tire left and right from the upright center plane. But because the Z tire is about double that width, there is more ground to cover to achieve the same tilt or degree of turning. The problem is, eventually, your pivoting shin / leaning leg (no matter how wide your leg positioning is), will hit the upper body of the Z before it can fully pivot more to achieve the same degree of turn that you can achieve on a 2.125" or 2.5" wide tire with a lesser degree of pivoting from your legs. I think this is why Ninebot made the Z body so short and retained the wider OG 16" One-style pedals: so you can get super wide with your legs and be the least hindered from hitting the upper shell body when deep turning.

But on the flip side, because the Z is so heavy (maybe by design(?)) and wide (I keep thinking beach ball or boulder when I think of the Z), you can do more fully body, butt-leading leans in parallel with the Z body plane (ie. lean WITH the Z; same degree of tilt), something that will just drop you on a normal EUC.

You can really feel the difference in physics that I state here when switching back and forth riding between Z and traditional width tire EUCs (really any other EUC!). The traditional, thinner tire EUC's, after riding the Z, feel really super sensitive and flip-floppy!

 

 

@SanDiegoGuy all of the wheels you named are excellent, and while I can name other EUCs that would be easier to learn on than the one's you've mentioned, one can really learn on any EUC with enough patience and persistence, so I would go with your gut and/or base your decision more on your use case.

 

[who_the]

19 hours ago, Toshio Uemura said:

I am not so sure anymore, if (for an adult!) the Z10 would be a bad wheel to start learning, as long as you put it on a short leach (like a suitcase belt)  so its beauty doesn’t get wasted.

Go with the Z10. The production model has cladding to protect against drops. And even without it, the Z10 is capable of taking an absolute beating and still looking great. The eWheels demo model has... well... been through a lot, let's say. And it still looks and rides great.

The Z10 is a fun, durable, performance wheel. Only the absolute fastest and longest riders will ever long for more than it is capable of. If that describes you, get an MSX. Otherwise, the Z10 is a wheel you can enjoy for years to come.

[SanDiegoGuy]

Hey guys.  Thanks for all the replies.  It is great to read all of them and absorbs all your advices.

I do NOT like to ride fast.  However, I like to ride at medium (or even at slow) pace and enjoy the carving and turning.  It looks so easy when Marty does it LOL.

I am glad of what Marty and Toshio Uemura said about the not so hard on the turning ability of the Z10.  I need to be able to control it efficiently.  

By the way, how slow can I ride the Z10 without me falling over on the sides/front/or back?

[SanDiegoGuy]

I just received my OneWheel XR today and I am trying to learn how to ride it.  In about 2 weeks, I should get my Mten3 10" wheel from Jason at ewheels.  Hopefully I do not put away my OneWheel and let it collect dust after I receive my Mten3.

Riding an EUC will be totally different from riding the OneWheel.  I just need to practice.....lots of practice.  

Then after I get comfortable on the Mten3, I will move over to the Z10.  Most of you encourage me to get the Z10 so I think I will just do that.

[Toshio Uemura]

9 minutes ago, SanDiegoGuy said:

Hey guys.  Thanks for all the replies.  It is great to read all of them and absorbs all your advices.

I do NOT like to ride fast.  However, I like to ride at medium (or even at slow) pace and enjoy the carving and turning.  It looks so easy when Marty does it LOL.

I am glad of what Marty and Toshio Uemura said about the not so hard on the turning ability of the Z10.  I need to be able to control it efficiently.  

By the way, how slow can I ride the Z10 without me falling over on the sides/front/or back?

As for the turning abilities of the Z10, please check my earlier video uploads under the topic Z10 at Osaka Castle Park (Part 1 to 4j there you can see how easy it is to make tight turns and other things on the Z10. I add one short clip here for you again, so you don’t have to search around. But there are more:

 

[SanDiegoGuy]

Wow, nice video Toshio.  I do not know how long it would take for me to ride like you can.

By the way, I visited Japan in April 2018 for the cherry blossom.  I did visit that Osaka Castle Park.  It was very pretty,  and my wife loves taking pictures of the cherry blossom trees.

Also a lot of people wear mask though.  It must be the pollen in the air during that time.

By the way, thanks for the video sample.

[mrelwood]

23 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I don’t like to fight the wheel

I based the strong wording on my experience on some flatter profile 16 x 2.5 tires I tried on a 16S. It seems obvious that people who have ridden the Z10 do not agree with the wording, and instead say that it is just a different technique that needs to be used. ”Throw your body weight around” is a phrase that has been used to describe the technique. For me that still sounds like turning on speed on the Z10 is not nearly as effortless as I wish from an EUC. Braking and accelerating harder on the MSX is like that, and still after 2000km I feel it to be more of a burden than I’d like.

But, as it will be your first full size EUC, you will adapt to the techniques required. And until you get good mileage on a thinner wheel as well, you will probably not even miss a different handling.

And even if this was a downer for you on the Z10, if it’s the only one, that makes it a near perfect wheel for you!

1 hour ago, SanDiegoGuy said:

By the way, how slow can I ride the Z10 without me falling over on the sides/front/or back?

Front to back balance is handled by the wheel, you won’t fall there. Sideways is up to the skill you learn. It will be hard at first, but as you learn to balance at slow speeds, you’ll eventually crawl slower than normal walking speeds. The wide tire will actually help you there.

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, SanDiegoGuy said:

Hey guys.  Thanks for all the replies.  It is great to read all of them and absorbs all your advices.

I do NOT like to ride fast.  However, I like to ride at medium (or even at slow) pace and enjoy the carving and turning.  It looks so easy when Marty does it LOL.

I am glad of what Marty and Toshio Uemura said about the not so hard on the turning ability of the Z10.  I need to be able to control it efficiently.  

By the way, how slow can I ride the Z10 without me falling over on the sides/front/or back?

Here's some slow-speed riding to whet your riding appetite

 

[Ziiten]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Here's some slow-speed riding to whet your riding appetite

 

On 8/21/2018 at 10:26 AM, Toshio Uemura said:

 

That Venice beach?

[Toshio Uemura]

6 hours ago, SanDiegoGuy said:

By the way, how slow can I ride the Z10 without me falling over on the sides/front/or back?

Sorry, I forgot to answer to your question. With the Z10 you can go very slow thanks to the high weight, low gravity and wide tire. With some practice you can stand completely still. Also with some practice you can even have the wheel itself stand up straight for a few seconds. Any other wheel will fall to the side imediately, as soon as you take of your hands. The Z is one of the few wheels that allows you to comfortably ride (role) at waking speed and even slower. With the other wheels you have to ride snakelines turning the wheel sharply left and right (similar to the front wheel of a bicycle when going very slow) with the Z this is not really necessary. You can also easily turn 180 degrease while standing and than continue riding backwards in the same direction. It takes some practice but it’s fun to learn.