Jump to content

Is ks18l top speed really 50kph?


joku

Recommended Posts

27 minutes ago, joku said:

Free lift speed doesn't show the theoretical max wheel speed. It just shows what the firmware is willing to do without load or high amperage. The speed on a BLDC motor is a function of the voltage & duty cycle of the pulse width modulation which is controlled by the firmware

That was Topic of several discussions….The lift up Speed IS the max Wheel Speed. When a Electric Wheel is running it is producing the so called "Back-EMF".(or counter EMF)..as soon as this Back-EMF-Voltage gets higher than the actual battery voltage the Wheel shuts off. Thats also the reason why max highspeed is dropping with lower getting battery. So no, on our wheels the max highspeed is not Firmware related. It's the physical max Speed possible....

 

In General Gotway has another Philosophy than KS, 9b or IM....

Gotway has no "max Speed by Tiltback" implemented….they prefer to have a last audible 80% power Alarm (but you can choose a tiltback by app if you want)

KS, 9b and IM's Philosophy is quite different. Through the hard/FW implemented tiltback they try to avoid that the rider can ever go near the wheels max Speed/Back EMF Speed.

9b and IM do that by constantly going down with the Speed on dropping battery starting proportional when going down from 100%

KS does that by a Speed restriction/reducing when the battery gets under 30-40% (depending on Wheel)

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I consider them to be the same thing. Theoretical max speed of a separated motor itself is of course a different thing, I think ”a wheel” is considered to include the firmware (and tire, shell etc, everything that makes it an EUC the vehicle).

But I think we are now entering semantics of an unnecessarily precision. The point was that 50km/h is not a theoretical maximum power output on the 18L, but a predetermined, firmware limited top speed.

It is well known that the rider weight, rider bravado, environmental conditions, battery level, terrain condition can all individually or simultaneously converge to impact speed.

Given your insights that the wheel is capable of besting its factory limited top speed of 31mph by >10mph, it seems that people should be addressing how these limiting factors might conspire to prevent the wheel from reaching its factory predetermined parameters.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lutalo said:

It is well known that the rider weight, rider bravado, environmental conditions, battery level, terrain condition can all individually or simultaneously converge to impact speed.

 Is this really what we want to discuss in this topic? It doesn’t concern the OP’s question in the slightest.

1 hour ago, Lutalo said:

Given your insights that the wheel is capable of besting its factory limited top speed of 31mph by >10mph, it seems that ...

I’m unsure wether I should explain the workings of a tilt-back or just the free-air speed of a top speed limited EUC. Which one do you feel would be more beneficial?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

 Is this really what we want to discuss in this topic? It doesn’t concern the OP’s question in the slightest.

I’m unsure wether I should explain the workings of a tilt-back or just the free-air speed of a top speed limited EUC. Which one do you feel would be more beneficial?

"Is this really what we want to discuss in this topic? It doesn’t concern the OP’s question in the slightest." 

Discussions threads often evolve from the original point. If points are that resolve an original question or enhance the discussion. If this conversation is somehow in danger of derailment, It will not be due to any contribution of mine.

I believe the discussion was originally about whether or not the wheels could actually reach the firmware limited speed of 50kph advertised by KS. 

It was then offered that a number of factors act upon the accuracy of the instrumentation's speed calculation method (tire pressure, wheel diameter, rider size, blah, blah, blah, blah????, and more boring technical nerdy stuff????). 

It was at the point where the discussion shifted, to theoretical top speed, vs firmware limited top speeds that I woke up from my power nap and rejoined the topic.

Your comment about the vehicle having the actual capability of 70kph was very interesting to me because taken at face value it made moot the original discussion regarding the speed capability of the wheel; if it is capable of 70 it can certainly do 50. If true, I believe that your comment establishes that current speed limitations are not power-related but related to firmware settings. 

Superimposed wheel limitations superseding power limitations in this case should reasonably shift the inquiry on this topic from "can the wheel?" to "why does the wheel?"

Thus my comment was merely to suggest that, because we know for sure that the wheel is capable of much more that that to which it is limited, general knowledge about factors affecting speed could now be used to enhance further inquiry into the vehicles speed characteristics on a given day because the question is now "why" as opposed to "can."

"I’m unsure wether I should explain the workings of a tilt-back or just the free-air speed of a top speed limited EUC. Which one do you feel would be more beneficial?"

As I am sure you have gathered from my previous comments by now, I am not the most technically inclined sort of guy. I tend to be more of an abstract thinker who can grasp context and concept. Frankly, I have always been quite satisfied to understand why tilt-back happens - the workings of it ????. I have already found the comments that you made about free air speed  vs firmware limits interesting. Start a new topic on the subject. I will follow it.??

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
On 8/20/2018 at 10:47 AM, Lutalo said:

Why on God's spinning blue ball would they "deliberately" lie over a few kph difference?

Children lie about stealing cookies because they don't like upsetting Mommy, A girlfriend might lie about her whereabouts and who she's with to avoid exposing her true nature and/or intentions with you. A student might lie about why a homework project is incomplete to avoid getting a bad mark, employees might lie to their supervisors when they need a day off to avoid being fired or written-up, etc. If one is going to lie, all the above scenarios represent good reasons to do so. But Kingsong lying about a speed capability....?????

It is already widely known that speed and range varies according to the rider, terrain, and environmental characteristics.

Perhaps all manufacturers overstate speed capability. If overstating speed is an industry norm then there is probably a good reason aside from deliberately trying to hoodwink the customers upon whom they depend for their survival; many of whom are enthusiasts that tend to instrumentally confirm the real world performance parameters of the machines after purchase.

Competitive market? To sell more product? To have an edge on the competition? Im not saying they did any of this, but to blatantly ignore that manufacturers sometimes stretch the truth in order to sell more product, seems silly. Surely you can think of a time or two, when a product cant seem to meet its specs in real world use? I have my doubts I'll EVER get the claimed range either. The grey area is usually when specs are given under perfect testing conditions that somehow can ONLY be replicated in the factory where it was made.  It does all seem a little sketchy that theres no definitive answer to this speed question. Im sure it is firmware limited, but DAMN, cant a factory that spends tons on R&D, also furnish exact figures, backed by calibrated testing equipment? I am sure they can, but maybe they dont want to, as any EXACT figure, would hold them to a standard they may not keep across different batches. Advertised speed inflation is ALL about marketing. Of COURSE some of us begin to wonder. When a company OUTRIGHT lies about things thru extremely inaccurate settings, its natural we wonder what else is being misrepresented. ALL of these EUC manufacturers know that their speeds shown on the apps and on the wheels are overstated. If you KNOW its false and still claim it, it is a LIE. They all do it, so we just accept it as par for the course.  Improper calibration of speed readings is NOT terrain dependent. If a wheel says im going 25mph, but am only going 20, the only thing that could make a slight change, would be tire diameter. Whether influenced by size, rider weight or pressure, the diameter os the ONLY thing that can cause discrepancies about speed. Since our speed is software limited first, the top speed as declared, is chosen by the manufacturer. Of course this doesnt apply, once you exceed hardware limitations, but we can plainly see that all these wheels are overstating (knowingly so) their speeds as advertised and in reality. Shame on ALL of them, but it is what it is. Im not a fan of such shadiness, but i do love my euc. I only rez this from the dead thread pool, as I'm still confused about my top speed settings. Ive over 200km, but now the ks app doesnt work (again), and DB wont set speeds.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now if you need help with speed settings, let me know. I am however on Android so I only know EUC.WORLD and KS App. I have seen Darknesbot (DB) long time ago so ythings might be different. If you have DB questions, there is a thread under apps area for that.

So I know some will not agree on this, but I never had any car be spot on in its speed reading nor fuel usages. One of the reason for cars are not spot on due to differences in tyre sizes and pressure. So to make sure the driver do not get into trouble speeds are reported typical 3-5 kmh inflated. 

If you then add gps vs tire rotation then there will always be interval update and inaccuracy in gps system (and this varies too depending on signal). Gps systems in phiones and smart devices are never 100% unless ther are made to make a refferance messure, but nne consumer procuts are to my knowledge. 

Long story very short, call it what you like but we are not running on calubrated messure systems, we are riding mass produced transport devices. buying one over the other for a few kmh is nothing but stupid in my book. There are so many other factors to consider.....

So about unlocking speed settings. I think you are better off writing your dealer/shop where youbought the wheel for assistance or write ks service department fir help. Unfortunately I think we lost contact to all KS reps here on the forum.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...