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What is the minimum protection you wear?


Thai-lad

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Did you see my first post. I wear a helmet, body armor, Kevlar lined jeans with knee protection, and gloves. I am not advocating not wearing protection. I am just saying that there are people who don't wear helmets were you live and have never and will never be seriously hurt. There have and will be people who do wear helmets that have or will get seriously hurt. There has been no study nor is there likely to be a study that can predict who will be in an accident (as far as wearing or not wearing a helmet), only that you will probably have a better chance of surviving if you wear a helmet. You have no control over the possible events that may make you the victim. You are not safer wearing a helmet than not. You are "likely" safer than the person not wearing a helmet if you both are in an accident and even then you may be the one who gets the worse of it. We wear protection because it does no harm, but might do good. If it makes people feel secure, even though they aren't, well that's okay too.

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3 hours ago, Thai-lad said:

Another place to practice might be to fall (not dive) from the side of a swimming pool.

The swimming pool practice is a very good idea. Never though of it. It can probably teach you to instinctively get into the right position. And it sounds great fun in this hot weather. Best put a piece of soap at the edge of the pool, run towards it as fast as you can trying to step on it with both feet at the same time. ? (Just kidding! Please don’t dare to try!) ?☠️?

But falling slowly and with awareness and concentration from the edge of a pool - while stretching your legs, forming the triangle with your elbows and hands (one on top of the other to further cushion the impact of your head) try to look ? either to your left or to your right before you hit the water - is a very good way to conquer your fear of falling and prepare yourself for the day X.

As you said, falling on your wrists and knees with your head up and relaxed neck muscles is most people’s first instinct AND it is the worst thing one can do. Everybody who rides an EUC for the first time and takes interest in this hobby (or means of transportation) should learn how to fall and not be afraid of taking a fall, because it surely will happen sooner or later, so all of us should invest in a few hours of practicing how to fall to minimize injuries and not solely rely on however sophisticated protective gear. Start in small steps! Start on your knees to slowly and correctly learn the basics. Then go to the pool and progress step by step to harder surfaces (grass, cushioned flooring) and be mentally prepared for the real thing, because it will happen. Don’t think about falling and cut offs when riding all the time, but also don’t think: This will never happen to me!

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3 hours ago, Thai-lad said:

Problems are, at low city cruising speeds,  riding with raised arms is not practical, and it takes about .2 seconds for even a trained athlete to react.  That leaves .4 seconds to raise your arms and straighten out.  My cat can do that, most people won't even know they are in free fall until it's too late, as they're still hoping their feet will come down on the pedals.  Starting martial arts training at 40 - 60 years of age is also not likely. Bottom line is it's far better to wear wrist guards and a helmet for every ride.

I agree with you on the first part and that’s why it is so important to train for that inevitably, at least the basics. It’s the first thing you get taught by a responsible ski or snow boarding instructor, and 40 - 60 year old people don’t have to practice martial arts to learn how to fall. It must be our responsibility to instruct or at least advice any newbie we introduce our hobby to to take up such training it is as necessary as knowing the basic traffic rules. I strongly believe it is an important aspect of our hobby. Solely relying on hi-tech protection gear is simply naive and irresponsible, especially when talking about middle aged and older newbies. If they can learn how to ride an EUC they can learn and practice how to fall, if they put their mind to it. It will be of great benefit.

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15 hours ago, Thai-lad said:

If you're riding in traffic, the more likely cause of a crash will be the motorist who doesn't see you and cuts in front of you, or hits you broadside, or the pothole that causes you to lose it, not the guy who clips you by passing too close.  Anyone who rides without a helmet in traffic in the hopes that he/she will be safer because they think cars will give them a wider berth is taking a grave (and I think foolish) risk.  But that's just my opinion. :)

Well the studies I linked to above combined doesn't actually provide any support for benefits for riding without helmet (second study wasn't able to replicate the helmet association), so we're actually in agreement :)

Most helmet studies I've seen seem to mostly deal with bicycles and bicycle helmets, but there seems to be solid support that helmets provide valuable protection against head and neck injuries - particularly for single vehicle accidents (the single vehicle in our case would be our wheels). For accidents involving other heavy vehicles such as cars helmets seems to play less of a role, so that's where constant vigilance on our part is very important. Reading this forum it seems most accidents reported are actually single accidents where helmets are proven to help a lot (even though there are of course example of other types of accidents as well). Personally I wouldn't go riding without a helmet (plus all kinds of other gear).

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On 8/14/2018 at 3:08 AM, Thai-lad said:

I see many videos of unprotected riders, as well as riders who wear differing amounts of protective armor depending on the ride they're planning.

What's the minimum safe amount for a low speed ride?

I recommend this as a test.  Take your wheel outside on the pavement. Stand next to a wall.  Lean the back of the wheel against the wall.  Don't power up your wheel.  Mount your wheel then gently push off.  Try to hold your balance, but feel free to fall forward and try to catch yourself when you no longer can.  This is what falling off a wheel would feel like at no speed.  Any forward momentum at all would make it much much worse. If you are able to get up without injury, then your protection works.  If you break your wrists, ribs, shoulders or smash your face, perhaps it would be time to order some better protection once you're back from the hospital. :)

Not brave enough to try?  Can't say I blame you.  Maybe think about it next time you take a low speed ride....

I second to practice mounting the unpowered wheel. It is IMHO a good exercise to train and test sensitivity and reflexes. I aim to always mount the wheel in a way that I won't lose control regardless of whether the wheel is powered on. I believe I am not far off that point.

The next goal post is to stay upright (running it off) even when the wheel silently powers off while riding. This is much harder to test though. I did some practices but only at very low speed.

The amount of protection gear I use is identical to the gear I wear when I go jogging and I make sure I do not ride faster than I can run. Plus, I keep activated my all-time most important safety device right below my skullcap.

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10 hours ago, Jerome said:

[...] You are "likely" safer than the person not wearing a helmet if you both are in an accident and even then you may be the one who gets the worse of it. We wear protection because it does no harm, but might do good. If it makes people feel secure, even though they aren't, well that's okay too.

I would suggest that wearing protection can also harm, even in a number of different ways.

Making a rider feel secure can be good, but it can be bad too. It seems quite likely that those who feel secure go (slightly) faster and they will take a bunch of other risks which they wouldn't take when feeling insecure. On the "good" side, feeling secure is in itself a good feeling and it may help in riding through critical situation when they occur. That seems similar to helmet wearing: it most likely helps in an accident with head impact (not sure about face impact though), but it may well increase the chance to be in such accident.

Another potential harm from wearing protection is the deterring effect to others.

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29 minutes ago, Mono said:

I do not ride faster than I can run.

This is a very safe way to ride an EUC. This kind of self restriction, should be exercised by anyone who uses an EUC as a means of transportation and especially by the elderly challengers of this hobby.

... BUT, man, you are missing out on a lot of fun. There are some of us, who consider an EUC as an instrument of self expression, similar to ice scating and there are others who see it as an extreme sports and go to (and sometimes above) its limits, often even without protection, some with brains like stuntmen others simply stupid, controlled and uncontrolled insanity it is, we all know.

However if you are wearing a belt and suspenders in this hobby you are missing out on something. Try once without suspenders! It’s great fun. And utterly dangerous ...!

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Mono said:

The amount of protection gear I use is identical to the gear I wear when I go jogging and I make sure I do not ride faster than I can run. Plus, I keep activated my all-time most important safety device right below my skullcap.

Falling off a stationary unicycle head first can be fatal.  It obviously makes things worse if you're moving forward, but just the 2 meter drop is, by itself, very dangerous.  When the wheel flies out from under you,  you go into free fall. It's not the same thing as tripping while on a jogging run.  There is no friction under your shoes like there is when running.  So it doesn't matter if your EUC was moving forward at jogging speed or not.  You may not get a chance to "run it out".  You could be going flying without a plane or parachute.

 

To Toshio's point, I agree practicing falls so that you instinctively protect your head, and impact first with your toes and arms, is an excellent idea.  Never seen any videos of normal EUC riders doing that, however.  I'll have to watch EUC Extreme's videos again to see how he falls,  perhaps he's using that technique. 

Just know, if you impact the ground with your unprotected head before the rest of you catches up, it's gonna be bad, even if you were only moving at walking speed...

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6 minutes ago, Thai-lad said:

When the wheel flies out from under you,  you go into free fall.

I don't mind a free fall of 170mm B) but it's a good point to remind that keeping the knees soft and bent them further in case is the lifesaver on an EUC. Keeping the knees soft is the method of choice how I keep my legs under the body (and hence under the head) and do not go free flying horizontally. Preventing to fall off head first on the ground is an important factor in riding safely, even if you wear a helmet.

 

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25 minutes ago, Thai-lad said:

To Toshio's point, I agree practicing falls so that you instinctively protect your head, and impact first with your toes and arms, is an excellent idea.  Never seen any videos of normal EUC riders doing that, however.  I'll have to watch EUC Extreme's videos again to see how he falls,  perhaps he's using that technique. 

Just know, if you impact the ground with your unprotected head before the rest of you catches up, it's gonna be bad, even if you were only moving at walking speed...

I am 100% with you. From my experience with the Ninebot E+ on the 20 degree slope and with less then 10 km/h speed I can confirm, it happens to you out of the blue and there is no time to consciously react or do anything as you very well described and stated in your above comment. If in such situations reflexes - and I mean the right well trained reflexes in contrast to instinctive utterly useless body responses! - do not kick in to prevent the worst, than you are bound to see a doctor or even your carrots from below! 

So practice how to fall! It is important in this hobby/extreme sport. I can not emphasize this often enough! Since childhood I fell often, sometimes up to 6 m deep but I never got seriously hurt or injured, never broke a single bone.

Learn how to fall and you will bleed but you will be  all right!

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4 hours ago, Toshio Uemura said:

This is a very safe way to ride an EUC. This kind of self restriction, should be exercised by anyone who uses an EUC as a means of transportation and especially by the elderly challengers of this hobby.

... BUT, man, you are missing out on a lot of fun. There are some of us, who consider an EUC as an instrument of self expression, similar to ice scating and there are others who see it as an extreme sports and go to (and sometimes above) its limits, often even without protection, some with brains like stuntmen others simply stupid, controlled and uncontrolled insanity it is, we all know.

However if you are wearing a belt and suspenders in this hobby you are missing out on something. Try once without suspenders! It’s great fun. And utterly dangerous ...!

 
I understand the thrill of speed. I have been riding highways with 180km/h on a motorcycle. Yet I find it much more thrilling to ride sand dunes with 60km/h, which is done, BTW, standing not sitting :) But that's just me and as we all know the fun mileage of people differs widely.
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More than a few faceplants due to brownouts, a few Wild E Coyote situations from hitting unseen curbs head on, some pothole faceplants, a few drops from catching pedals on those parking stops (what are those called) has convinced me that EUC crashes are not quite as fatal as a lot of people seem to think they are while being far more damaging than what most riders think. In short you won't get killed but you'll get injured from falls all the time.

In my opinion the biggest single danger to us is the truck or SUV with the big flat front that punches through your head and torso, forcing your body underneath the vehicle instead of over the hood.

Helmets and other body armor is a minor safety advantage compared to simply avoiding large vehicles that punches through and over you.

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1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

In my opinion the biggest single danger to us is the truck or SUV with the big flat front that punches through your head and torso, forcing your body underneath the vehicle instead of over the hood.

 

Annoying and dangerous to be sure.  Even worse, however, are the trees and telephone poles that jump out of their holes in front of you and block your way...

 

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Well, there are certainly different styles of falling.  Not a fan of catching oneself on the toes, or any tense contact with the ground, and generally try to be as relaxed as possible outside of tucking the chin.  Supposedly drunks tend to come out of car wrecks much better off than the sober, because they are so relaxed.

I agree with the helmet thing, and wrist guards especially.  One of the most common ways people injure themselves in falls is by trying to stop the fall by landing on the hands.  Wrists are narrow, with lots of small, oddly shaped bones, and are not suited, especially as we age, to take extremely heavy impact forces.  Snap goes the wrist and you've turned the situation from some bruises and scraping to broken bones.

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8 hours ago, LanghamP said:

In my opinion the biggest single danger to us is the truck or SUV with the big flat front that punches through your head and torso, forcing your body underneath the vehicle instead of over the hood.

Which is why we should all ride wearing these...

Dual-2X1-2M-Kids-And-Adults-Inflatable-B

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7 hours ago, Dingfelder said:

Well, there are certainly different styles of falling.  Not a fan of catching oneself on the toes, or any tense contact with the ground, and generally try to be as relaxed as possible outside of tucking the chin.  Supposedly drunks tend to come out of car wrecks much better off than the sober, because they are so relaxed.

I agree with the helmet thing, and wrist guards especially.  One of the most common ways people injure themselves in falls is by trying to stop the fall by landing on the hands.  Wrists are narrow, with lots of small, oddly shaped bones, and are not suited, especially as we age, to take extremely heavy impact forces.  Snap goes the wrist and you've turned the situation from some bruises and scraping to broken bones.

I also have another exciting hobby. It is 100% legal. A bit more difficult (about 58 times more difficult) than learning to ride an EUC, much less expensive and 1000% more dangerouser. Listen to what my idol has to say about injuries. Aren’t we all ? compared to him. ? 

Should they ever arrest me in Japan for riding an EUC, I take revenge by roaming the streets and parks and sidewalks with my Vurtego. I am practicing now for that day ... ?

 

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2 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

Which is why we should all ride wearing these...

Dual-2X1-2M-Kids-And-Adults-Inflatable-B

Semi related; the Hovding airbag helmet seems between 3-6 times more effective than a normal helmet.

I wonder if the Hovding could be extended easily to be a full torso bag, detecting large objects such as autos coming within its field and thereby deploying.

 

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I have found my accident rate is almost directly proportional to my experience on the path, distance and EUC.

So, for me...I am doing this twice a day for my commute;

  • 2.1 mile ride to train, 20-25mph, open face helmet, wrist guards, elbow pads, knee pads. I usually make this trip in less than 7 minutes but it is my greatest opportunity for accidents. :) 
  • 1/2 mile ride to work, 15-20 mph (some 25mph stretches too :) ), open face helmet only. This is a short 6 block ride, and I am very familiar with the path. Usually have to stop or slow down for lots of pedestrians/cars. 
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1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

I wonder if the Hovding could be extended easily to be a full torso bag, detecting large objects such as autos coming within its field and thereby deploying.

You mean something like these...

http://www.helitemoto.com 

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4 hours ago, Toshio Uemura said:

I also have another exciting hobby. It is 100% legal. A bit more difficult (about 58 times more difficult) than learning to ride an EUC, much less expensive and 1000% more dangerouser. Listen to what my idol has to say about injuries. Aren’t we all ? compared to him. ? 

Should they ever arrest me in Japan for riding an EUC, I take revenge by roaming the streets and parks and sidewalks with my Vurtego. I am practicing now for that day ... ?

 

Kris Holm, probably the most famous (regular) unicyclist by far, started off on pogo sticks too, and was into them for a long time.  He also got into stilt-walking before he first took up a unicycle.  

The guy in your video does some really cool stuff ... but 14 or 15 concussion? And he's still so young and going at it?  I think he's going to pay big-time for his hobby later in life ...

So little protective gear too!  Nothing I could see but a helmet.

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