RockyTop Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 28 minutes ago, Truong Do said: It seems the more replies I have the more I look stupid You are not alone. This comes up all the time. Most people can't wrap their head around it. You are fighting physics. Software can not change physics. The wheel does not have a gas pedal and would not work if it did. The wheel just has a serious OCD thing about being level. It is a side benefit that we can use the wheel's obsessive compulsive disorder to move forward. We just have to tilt the wheel to take advantage of the poor things obsession. It takes off with it's only goal in life of making it's pedals level again. Tilting the wheel is made more difficult by having heavier , larger wheels and hills that change the mechanical advantages and fulcrum points of the physics. software can't fix it. You would fall flat on your but. Although you could fix the problem by adding a second wheel in front of or behind the existing wheel. 29 minutes ago, Truong Do said: I can work around this to have a better up hill cruising experience by shifting by feet forward so I do not have to lean but I would loose balance from doing that easily. Move one foot forward and one foot back. I hated hills when I was a beginner. I don't even notice them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truong Do Posted August 11, 2018 Author Share Posted August 11, 2018 3 hours ago, RockyTop said: Tilting the wheel is made more difficult by having heavier , larger wheels and hills that change the mechanical advantages and fulcrum points of the physics. Then I think Inmotion is doing a better job based on my feeling. I would need more time to confirm that... 3 hours ago, RockyTop said: Move one foot forward and one foot back This is what exactly what I do even not riding up hill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Truong Do said: Then I think Inmotion is doing a better job based on my feeling. I would need more time to confirm that... The InMotion does have better physics to climb a hill. And a moped is easier to ride than a Honda CBR super bike. Mopeds are great fun and very useful but they can’t do what a CBR can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Truong Do If you are a skilled rider and you have no trouble riding at maximum speeds except on the "Steep hill", then 10 mph is what the wheel can deliver given its setup. KS is not going to change any firmware to allow you to go faster as it would potentially damaged the product and perhaps you. What the "app" is saying about wattage usage does not trump the built-in protection system. If you want to push your wheel to its absolute maximum capabilities (and beyond) buy a Gotway. You can full throttle them up the steepest hill or run at or above maximum recommended speeds .. but there will be consequences. The Tesla, ACM2 (also 16 inch) will get up your steep hill at the maximum speed the total power outlay will allow. If the hill is not so steep as to blow the mosfets and face-plant you, then you have it made. At your weight the Inmotion V10F would probably go up faster than the KS16 also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truong Do Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 50 minutes ago, Jerome said: At your weight the Inmotion V10F would probably go up faster than the KS16 also. I am not much demanding a higher speed cruising up hill but seeking for a better riding experience at that speed. But yes, the V10 would probably give me a better riding experience. Anyway I am good with the ks16s probably for at least a year, until my wife is buying a new iPhone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Just to be clear (because I'm confused now): if your 16S does not beep at you or tilts back, it's you, not the wheel, and it can be stressed more. May just be hard to do ergonomically, but if you tilted it, it would accelerate. I don't think a 16S can be stressed into a blown mosfet (unlike maybe Gotways) so easily, so you shouldn't have to worry about that here. Your 1km hill: how steep is it approximately (in %), what's your weight on the pedals, and how fast can you go up there (and what happens at that speed, how does it feel getting there)? I find it hard to believe a 16S would not easily go 20 or 25km/h (12-16mph) with a "normal" rider weight on a reasonably steep (<10%) hill. So maybe some concrete numbers help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truong Do Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said: Your 1km hill: how steep is it approximately (in %), what's your weight on the pedals, and how fast can you go up there (and what happens at that speed, how does it feel getting there)? I will take a photo of the hill next week even though it is hard to tell the numbers, one part of it looks about 15%. My weight is about 120lbs and I feel I have to put most of my weight to the front part of the pedals, I will get the log from wheellog as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truong Do Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said: if your 16S does not beep at you or tilts back, it's you, not the wheel, and it can be stressed more It does not beep or tilt back. If you say that I have to lean harder or shift my feed to the front of the pedals and there is no other way around like improving the wheel so I do not have to do so then I would accept that then. After many round trips daily, it is actually getting better as my feet have probably been stronger and adapted to being at that constant leaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 So, how were the softer riding modes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 4 hours ago, Truong Do said: I will take a photo of the hill next week even though it is hard to tell the numbers, one part of it looks about 15%. My weight is about 120lbs and I feel I have to put most of my weight to the front part of the pedals, I will get the log from wheellog as well... my kingsong goes up some pretty steep hills np and I'm 90kg it's a powerful machine tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Hard to say what's going on, 15% is a lot. But if you're 60lbs (which comes out to 75kg wheel+rider weight), as compared to an 80kg rider (100kg combined weight), 15% to you is comparable to 11% for that rider. I think a 16S should work pretty well in that situation (around 10% incline). It may beep/overheat or at most blow a fuse, but if that does not happen to you, I'd say it's not the wheel. That does not mean it is easy or ergonomic for you to get the wheel tilted enough to accelerate on such a hill, though, so don't blame yourself. When I force my ACM up a really steep part, I can be literally standing on my toes on the pedals, so you could try that and see what happens. Or just grab the wheel with your legs hard. That being said, there is some wisdom in not pushing a wheel further than feels sensible. So I'd say, if you notice some kind of improvement in how you go up hills, just keep riding and see where that leads without doing any brute forcing that you're unsure about or that is uncomfortable. One last idea, if you care enough, you could experiment with different pedal calibrations and if it changes how easy it it to go up hills (pedals tilted back a little in neutral might give you more leverage tp push their front down, e.g.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 14 hours ago, Truong Do said: I will take a photo of the hill next week even though it is hard to tell the numbers, one part of it looks about 15%. My weight is about 120lbs and I feel I have to put most of my weight to the front part of the pedals, I will get the log from wheellog as well... I'm about the same weight (about 57kg / 125lbs) and I had the same problem. With 550W Firewheel, I could accelerate uphills easily with the stiff mode. With 1200W KS16S and hardest riding mode, I couldn't get it to accelerate. Why? The wheel is so powerful that with the hardest mode it easily overcomes my weight and returns to level when leaning forwards in uphills, there's not enough proportional (the P in the PID-control) offset for the wheel to respond much. I had to stand tiptoed to get it to accelerate and felt like I was going to fall off the pedals. I switched to the medium-mode ("Riding mode" I think it's called in the app) and the problem went away. Since the pedals now have some play, I can get a larger proportional offset and the wheel responds more easily in uphills, accelerating to top speed uphill is now easy. I used to think that the "hard" mode is the "best" for riding (probably because Firewheel only had two modes, and the soft one was waaayy too soft, like standing on a spring), but after getting used to the slightly more softer pedals, I actually like them more. Power braking is easier and stronger when you don't have to stand on your heels, but the pedals give in a bit and you have better grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truong Do Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 9 hours ago, esaj said: I had to stand tiptoed to get it to accelerate and felt like I was going to fall off the pedals. I switched to the medium-mode ("Riding mode" I think it's called in the app) and the problem went away Interesting, I will definitely try that out. The description of that riding mode could be wrong though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truong Do Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 So I looked at the wheellog for my up hill riding from work today. The speed was actually up to 24km/h and the wheel was at more than 1200W at one point. So I am satisfied even though I had to lean so hard. At my comfortable riding I would not lean that hard as I want to be able to run for one or two steps before falling down in case of a cutoff. The medium riding mode did not help me much but I will do more experiments to confirm. My firmware is 1.08. Thanks for all the tips! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 On 8/12/2018 at 1:24 AM, Truong Do said: I will take a photo of the hill next week even though it is hard to tell the numbers, one part of it looks about 15%. My weight is about 120lbs and I feel I have to put most of my weight to the front part of the pedals, I will get the log from wheellog as well... Okay, this explains it all. The wheel is not straining/beeping/over-heating, you are just having problems being able to forwardly tilt the wheel. Sorry for the misunderstanding as I think you have been saying this all along. Perhaps gripping the sides of the wheel with you legs to give more leverage will help. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truong Do Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 16 minutes ago, Jerome said: Okay, this explains it all. The wheel is not straining/beeping/over-heating, you are just having problems being able to forwardly tilt the wheel. Right, it is not about how powerful the wheel is, it is about how to utilize it as in the title of the topic. I was looking for a way to cruise up a steep hill without leaning hard but as some of you mentioned it is against the law of physics? I was just thinking it is as simple as converting the force on the pedals F to number of Amps A pumping to the motor, A=N*F where N can be changed by the firmware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 3 hours ago, Truong Do said: Right, it is not about how powerful the wheel is, it is about how to utilize it as in the title of the topic lean then? you shouldn't have a problem going up hills especially at your weight there's nothing more i can say that's how the wheels work, you have to tilt them forward to move either that's up hill or on the flat . you should be flying up,,, just get used to it we are trying to help you get the best out of your 1200 motor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truong Do Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 8 hours ago, stephen said: you have to tilt them forward to move either that's up hill or on the flat Well, cruising on a flat road is like nothing. I only have to work hard cruising up hill, I found that shifting my feet forward helps but shifting my feet while riding is a little hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 You can dramatically reduce the amount of pedal force needed to go uphill by salooming uphill; be mindful of pedal strike when changing direction. I often default into salooming (up or down hill) if there's some steepness. I just cannot be bothered to clamp my wheel, move my feet, change riding modes, or otherwise use more than a very slight amount of force in my wheels. I also suspect at that 20-25 km/h range wheels are very energy efficient, it just seems they go forever if you ride them at that speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.