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Petition to legalise a new class of light electric vehicles


Juggler
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I saw this petition on a Facebook group for EUC riders.

For some reason all petitions are open for only 6 months and  the closing date for this one is the 19th Oct 2018.  So even if you have already signed one in the past it will have closed if it was older than 6 months and did not achieve the minimum number  of signatures.

We therefore need to re sign this new one and hope it gets 10,000 plus votes for the government to take an notice.  Ask all your friends and family to sign it and get them to ask all their friends too.  Click on the link below to sign.  You can also share it via Facebook,  email or twitter when you sign up

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/217767

I've just signed it so don't delay, do it today! 

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11 hours ago, maxkan said:

Frankly saying electric unicycle is dangerous for the user and nearby people and should never be legalized

People are dangerous for other people. If you are drunk, stupid, too young or just brainless then you indeed should not use unicycles, and probably even stay at home where you are not a danger for others. For normal, conscious people EUC are not more dangerous then a 1 tone car lunched at 100 kph with a stupid driver inside...

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In case of engine failure 1 tone car would still be able to stop and decelerate. That's not the case for EUCs. EUCs are not safe until they do something about it engineering wise. 2 battery blocks is a good step in that direction but that's not enough. EUC community is fine and those failures are not in the news only because amount of riders is very very low.

Edited by maxkan
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1 hour ago, maxkan said:

In case of engine failure 1 tone car would still be able to stop and decelerate. That's not the case for EUCs. EUCs are not safe until they do something about it engineering wise. 2 battery blocks is a good step in that direction but that's not enough. EUC community is fine and those failures are not in the news only because amount of riders is very very low.

I'm agree with you, there is lot of improvements that can be done ! I was just saying that for "nearby people". For the user itself it really depends... I was probably one of the 1st EUC user here, now it has been 5 years I'm using EUC and driving around 20km per day... Yes I had some failures... Yes I crashed myself few times... My latest wheel can do 50km/h... But I setup it to never go faster then 25m/h... Why ? Because I like to know that I'm using only 50% of what it can do. And also when choosing my EUC I focused on safety first... I'm an engineer so I focused on 18' wheel, and on every details of how it's made, what kind of MOSFets are inside, where is the PCB and how it's protected against vibrations, what kind of connectors are there etc etc... Then yes, it will never be 100% safe... You need at last a helmet and also most probably some extra protection for your legs and arms... Paris is the 1st city in the world for EUC, you seem them all the time, everywhere, just next to electric bikes, electric cars, electric scooters and electric skateboards. We are kind of community here, and frankly accidents are quite rare and mostly not very important... In 5 years, all my crashes happens on very low speed or just when I was starting the ride, but maybe I'm lucky. I really think that with right protections, speed limitation it can be as much dangerous for the user as bike... In my opinion there should be speed limit, mandatory helmet and maybe other protection and of course minimum age. They should also only allow serious certified brands... 

Edited by TomOnWheels
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Bicycles wreck and run into people. I have been riding my EUC with bicycles for three months and out of four people I am the only one on an EUC and the only one that has not wrecked. Two of the bikes almost ran into someone.  Yes the EUC could fail but I am 1000 times more likely to be at fault. From my perspective a bike is 4 times more likely to wreck than me on my EUC. 

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I would love to help but I am not from the UK.  The count has not even really begun.  I have been watching the counter for a month now. Looks like you need more people fast.  You need an event or some kind of public awareness campaign. 

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I just signed it. I am from the UK, but have been living in California for nearly 20 years. I hope to go back at some point. I'm only just starting out with EUCs (today was my first "ride"), but I'm determined that this will be a long term mode of transport for me.

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On 7/31/2018 at 8:25 PM, Juggler said:

We therefore need to re sign this new one and hope it gets 10,000 plus votes for the government to take an notice. 

I’ve signed and promoted on Facebook, but it is a shame it is so thoughtlessly worded: “Public transport is overcrowded, dirty and often inconvenient. Private vehicles are unaffordable and inconvenient. “ is, frankly, just a stupid and very unworthy comment - not the least because those are just the arguments for getting a bicycle.

PEV’s make the most sense when used to augment public transport, not replace it. Not that many people are going to commute daily 20-30 miles on a scooter or EUC, but many would think about using it for the last mile instead of doing the whole journey by car.

As to private vehicles being unaffordable, that completely misses the point, not least of which is you can buy a good used car for the cost of many PEV’s but also because it’s going to need to be about pollution to change people’s consciousness, not about there being “poor people” out there who cannot afford to buy a car - those, they will respond, should just damn well get on their bike!

I’ve introduced the petition on my Facebook page as follows: 

Our government needs to think again, please help them by signing. 
To, on the one hand, make green claims and state we need to cut our carbon footprint, whilst on the other hand banning all small Personal Electric Vehicles (PEV’s) on the grounds that they do not have “usable peddles” is close to moronic. Often the argument for using a car is that public transport doesn’t get you “the last mile”. An electric bike is a nuisance on public transport but an Electric Unicycle, folding scooter, or similar is just convenient hand luggage and deals perfectly with that last mile. 
Don’t forget also that electric cars still move a ton or more of weight about and consume very large amounts of energy, all they do is shift where it is produced, small PEV’s typically burn 20Wh/mile or less - a tiny fraction of the energy consumption of a car - or to put it another way: they can go about 5 miles on the energy you use to boil a full kettle of water!

Edited by Keith
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There's absolutely no chance at all there will be 10,000 signatures by October when there's only just over 200 in 4 months. There probably aren't that many riders in the world let alone in the UK.

It's probably best to keep our heads down and hope we don't get idiots interested that ride recklessly and give the majority a bad name. Mostly Police ignore us few that ride carefully & respectful of others. 

 

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On 8/4/2018 at 3:30 PM, maxkan said:

In case of engine failure 1 tone car would still be able to stop and decelerate. That's not the case for EUCs. EUCs are not safe until they do something about it engineering wise. 2 battery blocks is a good step in that direction but that's not enough. EUC community is fine and those failures are not in the news only because amount of riders is very very low.

 

 

 

 

It's a contradiction to say that EUCs need further development and are taking steps in the right direction, and that they should be banned at the same time.

If you are saying that EUCs should be banned then your goal is to stop further development toward safer EUC's, because prohibiting them destroys the incentive for further development to make progressive refinements.

We can collect tons of data on brakes failing on cars resulting in fatalities, or drivers killing pedestrians and other drivers due to inebriation or distraction. Cars can become literal killing machines; so they can be dangerous to other people if they are not properly operated. I hardly think that their potential and actual danger will ever be enough to get them banned.

The question is; Is a person who is reasonably operating the vehicle in a safe manner a danger to the public? I think the answer is no for both cars and EUCs, and I doubt that you have any actual data to demonstrate that EUCs are actually unsafe when operating within stated limits. 

The manufacturers have taken the lead on safety (especially Kingsong and in motion) and are very proactive about instituting measures to keep the wheels operating within safe limits. The engine failures that you mention happen rarely and only when the wheel is pushed beyond its clearly stated performance limits by the rider. I doubt that you have information to show otherwise.

Manufacturers, dealers, and riders can prove safety within proper limits because they have all tested the wheels' performance parameters in a variety of laboratory and real world situations.

Many EUC riders do not oppose safety regulation, and take proactive steps to follow rules established for similar vehicles; this despite the fact that EUCs are difficult to classify. They also wear safety equipment to protect themselves even without specific safety regulations in place.

Calling for the banning of wheels represents a misguided crusade that attacks a responsible community of adult riders around the world who enjoy exploring alternative, clean, green, micro-mobility options.

Edited by Lutalo
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I'd like to see engineering improvements and regulations for EUCs and only then it can be legalized. Do you really see no problems with them? I'm done posting in this topic as there was too many dislikes. Look at situation realistically please. I know we all like riding them but that doesn't mean its safe

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On 8/7/2018 at 8:17 AM, maxkan said:

Riding high speed along with pedestrians is unsafe. Check any chooch videos. He is so fast that there is no chance for pedestrians to react in any way. That should be banned no matter how good a rider you are

So, are you talking about banning wheels or regulating unsafe riding? Or perhaps you feel that wheel riding should be banned because you think some riders are unsafe? Your earlier comment pointed to the wheels as unsafe. To me, you seem unclear about the point of your crusade.

The EUC community has done a great job of self-regulating by encouraging safety and best riding practices. Nevertheless, I am sure that many riders of EWheels would support safety regulations. Even in the absence of regulations many riders take proactive measures to ensure their own safety, and the safety of others. 

Your example of Chooch's riding is not reflective of the whole riding community. Many even openly deride unsafe riding and riders. There are even more videos available that clearly show that most riders are safe and responsible when riding in public and on public roads. You will need much more than Chooch's example to have a valid argument. 

Edited by Lutalo
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On 8/7/2018 at 8:47 AM, maxkan said:

I'd like to see engineering improvements and regulations for EUCs and only then it can be legalized. Do you really see no problems with them? I'm done posting in this topic as there was too many dislikes. Look at situation realistically please. I know we all like riding them but that doesn't mean its safe

Again; contradiction in terms.

1. You labeled EUCs unsafe. It's a logical fallacy to change the initial point of the discussion; a proclamation that EUCs are unsafe to operate and should, therefore, be banned to a discussion about whether or not I think EUCs have problems. My entire response only addresses the initial point.

2. Making them illegal is a regulation; a pretty final one at that.

3. The chances of improvements slim when there are no buyers because the wheels are illegal. No buyers, no incentive for continuous engineering improvements.

4. I ride them because they are safe. Proving otherwise would be very difficult.

5. I am quite glad that you are done talking about this because you do not have a valid argument.

 

Edited by Lutalo
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2 hours ago, maxkan said:

Riding high speed along with pedestrians is unsafe. Check any chooch videos. He is so fast that there is no chance for pedestrians to react in any way. That should be banned no matter how good a rider you are

So by your logic we should ban bicycles and cars. Both can be ridden on the sidewalk. Maybe one or both should not be on the sidewalk. The EUC should follow the same rules as a bike and if you ban EUC’s ban the bicycles too. Is Chooch braking the law? Probably! Do you think it is legal to ride a bike 25-30 mph on the sidewalk? Ban Chooch not the rest of us.

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The danger comes down to the difference in size and speed. It's unsafe for any vehicle to mix with pedestrians when it's going 25mph, whether it's a car, bike, or EUC. Even with no pedestrians in sight, sidewalks are not even smooth enough in many cases to be safe for 25mph travel because they were never designed for it! IMO, bikes and EUCs are small and light enough that they can mix with pedestrians but only at slower speeds, say 10mph. And if you're passing within arm's distance of someone you should be going more like 5mph. Pedestrians do dumb stuff sometimes and don't let you know in advance.

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