MsuperX Pedal Angle Adjustment

[LanghamP]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

This just occurred to me. What if longer pedals (for you apes out there ) would make it too easy for us to over-power the wheels because of the additional leverage? Maybe the manufacturers know this and that's why they are all about the same length?

Do 14 inch wheels use less watts going uphill than 18 inch wheels, given the same speed?

[Marty Backe]

31 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

Do 14 inch wheels use less watts going uphill than 18 inch wheels, given the same speed?

I have no objective data (or gut feel) on this question.

[UniVehje]

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

Do 14 inch wheels use less watts going uphill than 18 inch wheels, given the same speed?

I don’t think so. But more importantly you can think that smaller wheels are on lower gear. 

[mrelwood]

7 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

This just occurred to me. What if longer pedals (for you apes out there ) would make it too easy for us to over-power the wheels because of the additional leverage? Maybe the manufacturers know this and that's why they are all about the same length?

I think that was a relevant concern with 500W wheels, but we now have four times the power with no change in pedal length. But:

7 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I know it's a pain, but for you guys that can't stand the supposedly small pedals, you can mechanically attach bigger pads onto the existing pedals. I've seen lots of people do it.

Such as me... I have used pedal extensions since a Lhotz. No overleans, and I’m pretty sure they have saved me from a crash a few times since they help a lot in keeping my balance in surprise potholes or softer sand that slows the wheel down.

And even with the original pedal length, an inch more width would be a pain saver for me.

 

[Adel]

9 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Maybe the manufacturers know this and that's why they are all about the same length?

You're giving EUC manufacturers too much credit ? 

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Adel

[Electric Dreams]

On 7/31/2018 at 2:23 PM, Adel said:

Anyone who recently purchased MsuperX, and especially if you are upgrading from Msuper, you notice immediately the difference in the pedal angle on the MsuperX which is much sharper.

Here's the measurement of the Msuper pedal which is about 80°:

In contrast, the MsuperX measurement comes out at 75°:

For myself and others, the new pedal angle on the MsuperX is uncomfortable. However there are others who are OK with it and may even prefer it, YMMV.

Anyhow, I decided to modify the pedals of the MsuperX so that they match the Msuper ones exactly. I give credit to @mrelwood who I think first suggested the solution described below but first.

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT RECOMMENDATION. PERFORM AT YOUR OWN RISK ! YOU CAN EASILY DAMAGE YOUR PEDALS AND MAKE THEM UNUSABLE !

The modification involves very careful removal of pedal material using metal files until the desired angle is reached. 

Here are the tools used :

To adjust the pedals, I carefully filed in small increments the area of the pedal that comes in contact with the pillar. Then put the pedal back and measured the angle and repeated this process many times until the angle matched the desired amount. This needed to be done in very small steps because if too much material is removed, the pedal is ruined and would have the opposite problem of too large pedal angle. Here are pictures of one of the modified pedals after about 20 minutes of labor on each one:

 

Afterwards painted the pedals and installed better grip tape (optional)

Finally here's the pedal installed on the MsuperX and now measures 80° which is the same as the Msuper:

So far, the modified pedals feel much more comfortable to me. Still need to test them for longer and more demanding rides to see how they perform and check if the wheel dynamics have not been negatively affected.

First off thank you for this post. I'm on my second day on my msx transferring from my KS16, where the pedals were i think 90 degrees. The angle of the pedals are killing me, i feel some numbess on my KS but never like this.  I just have a few questions:

1.Do you think by filing the pedals you are damage the durability and reliability of the pedals?

2. Where exactly are you filing on the pedal, ive been looking at the pedals photos and would like to execute the same thing you have done but could you please explain with more details which part of the pedal you are filing?

3.From my understand the pedals are angled due to the linear post if you filed down that part of the machine that would also fix the problem however you run into the risk of permanently causing an irreversible damage to the structure, just wanted your input about filing that down(picture attached)

4. How rough are the files you used?

 

Thank You

Jack 

Edited August 5, 2018 by Jack Frost

[mrelwood]

6 hours ago, Jack Frost said:

1.Do you think by filing the pedals you are damage the durability and reliability of the pedals?

I don't think so. The material is filed off from a very thick section of solid matter. 

6 hours ago, Jack Frost said:

2. Where exactly are you filing on the pedal

When you remove the pedals, you will see a little wear at the spot that rubs against the pedal arm. File down from there. Here are a few pictures:

6 hours ago, Jack Frost said:

3.From my understand the pedals are angled due to the linear post if you filed down that part of the machine that would also fix the problem however you run into the risk of permanently causing an irreversible damage to the structure, just wanted your input about filing that down(picture attached)

I filed from the pedals exactly because of that, didn't want to modify the pedal arms. The pedals should be easier and cheaper to replace if need be.

6 hours ago, Jack Frost said:

4. How rough are the files you used?

I guess my file is medium roughness, followed by sanding it smooth with a small sanding machine.

[Adel]

14 hours ago, Jack Frost said:

First off thank you for this post. I'm on my second day on my msx transferring from my KS16, where the pedals were i think 90 degrees. The angle of the pedals are killing me, i feel some numbess on my KS but never like this.  I just have a few questions:

1.Do you think by filing the pedals you are damage the durability and reliability of the pedals?

It's a possibility but doesn't appear so at the moment. Only small amount of material is removed but time will tell.

14 hours ago, Jack Frost said:

2. Where exactly are you filing on the pedal, ive been looking at the pedals photos and would like to execute the same thing you have done but could you please explain with more details which part of the pedal you are filing?

Here is a picture showing which part needs to be filled:

 

 

 

14 hours ago, Jack Frost said:

3.From my understand the pedals are angled due to the linear post if you filed down that part of the machine that would also fix the problem however you run into the risk of permanently causing an irreversible damage to the structure, just wanted your input about filing that down(picture attached)

 

 

You should absolutely NOT file the pillars. If you damage them, they are much harder to aquire and replace. On the other hand, you can relatively easy get and replace Msuper pedals.

 

14 hours ago, Jack Frost said:

4. How rough are the files you used 

I used as medium file to start with then switched to fine when I got closer to the end. Finally when done used fine grain sand paper to smooth out.

[Electric Dreams]

@Adel @mrelwood thanks for the reply, picked up my file today, just need a protractor and will definitely start working on this. 

I might practice with old ACM pedals that also fit so see if I even like it less angled

 

[Shad0z]

I did this mod, wow, now my feet feel “flat” again, before it was like trying to stand on a sideways wall.. and its not too hard either, get a high grit file, and just start filing, then put them on and see, then file, and check how the angle looks, then file until desired result, very very easy and quick

EDIT: i love tilted pedals now

my advice is to keep them as they are for some time. if you are suffering. after a month still. then try to adjust the angle. slightly. be gentle

Edited July 19, 2019 by Shad0z

[Siggy]

On 8/2/2018 at 5:58 PM, UniVehje said:

I have actually theorised that this could contribute to the overload issue of the V10F with the large pedals. My friend @Peter Köhler has a nice modded large pedals (pictured) on his 16S and he said they made going uphill much much faster. I saw him just fly up. This must be more demanding for the motor as well and possibly a slight risk these companies don't want to take. 

 

@Peter Köhler

This looks fantastic!

 

Would you be able to post a little tutorial of how you did this mod. My size 13 feet would be most appreciative

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, Siggy said:

@Peter Köhler

This looks fantastic!

 

Would you be able to post a little tutorial of how you did this mod. My size 13 feet would be most appreciative

He doesn’t seem to be that active here, so if I may:

He used a 9mm wood veneer, saw’d to shape, (I think used some sort of thin finishing, ) glued rough sandpaper on top, and just drilled and bolted through the original pedals with two pairs of (size M4 or M5) bolts and nuts. He also tried various dihedral angles by putting some rubber pieces under the tire side of the new pedal before tightening the bolts. And somehow made the end result look really good!

Edited August 20, 2018 by mrelwood

[Siggy]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

He doesn’t seem to be that active here, so if I may:

Sounds fantastic! Thanks for this

[Greg Tay]

I used a CnC milling machine to mill down exactly 1mm at the contact point which is lower part of that flat part. Only need to mill down 2/3 of the bottom portion. However no harm in milling off the whole flat portion. The pedal would be about 3 degrees tilted up from horizontal. Of course if you mill say... 0.7mm you would be getting a 5 degree angle.

This can be done at any metal workshop which has a milling machine and willing to take on your job,  if you are lazy to file it down yourself. 

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, Greg Tay said:

The pedal would be about 3 degrees tilted up from horizontal.

Now that is a brave mod! Since the original was 13/15 degrees, and I imagine most wheels are at around 10 degrees. You must be at the V10F range.

For me even 8 degrees was too shallow, as it forced me to squeeze the inner leg during tight manoeuvring. V10F being the extreme example, the flat angle makes me feel as if my feet were constantly trying to slip to the side. Around 11 degrees feels the most relaxed and controlled for me in all situations.

[Greg Tay]

I wish they made the side posts adjustable so everyone can set their own preference angle. My previous wheel was a v5f and it was kind of flat. And my current rockwheel gt16 is pretty flat as well. I could not get used to the high angle of the msx as it made my feet very sore. I'm also not used to clamping the sides tightly. 

[mrelwood]

11 hours ago, Greg Tay said:

I wish they made the side posts adjustable

Absolutely! For example shims of various thickness that can be slided in between the pedal and the pedal arm would make many people happy.

[Aba Hanad]

the ONE best mod i have done to my msx(so far).

i have a v10f with msx pedals, the pedal on the v10f has an even steeper angle but doesn't feel uncomfortable at all because of the padding on the v10.

meanwhile the stock angle on the msx was pure torture , i couldn't complete a 2 mile trip without taking a break.

i didnt have the right tools for the job so i simply ran my dremel and found the best angle for me , made sure they are both equal by measuring the total length after filing.

it did take 2 hours of dremling, measuring fitting testing over and over again but i say its worth it.

[Declan acoustic-unicyclist]

I had major foot pains after only 30 or so minutes on my MSX after fitting some sidepads, so I will be doing this mod.

 

My "Chicway" Nikola clone pedals have an even sharper angle than the MSX stock pedals and thus, I do feel really locked in to the wheel but also cannot stand the pain.

 

I am going for a liiiiiiitle bit flatter angle and will see how the ride quality changes. The pedals seem like a sturdy hunk of metal, so removing a tiny bit with a file shouldn't make any difference

[Lilvodka]

My MSX, with the updated rear light, has flat pedals.  I wanted the angled pedals, so I could get that locked in feeling.  I guess everyone has different preferences.  

Edited September 6, 2019 by Topkek

[Declan acoustic-unicyclist]

45 minutes ago, Topkek said:

My MSX with the updated rear light has flat pedals.  I wanted the angled pedals so I could get that locked in feeling.  I guess everyone has different preferences.  

These are the pedals I added to my MSX. They have an even sharper lean angle than the originals, which I think is why I dislike them. The original MSX pedals had a nice angle, but I still want to shave off just a bit.

I like sporty riding, but I don't want to have to take a break after only 40 minutes of riding.

[mrelwood]

8 hours ago, Topkek said:

My MSX, with the updated rear light, has flat pedals.

I'm sure you mean flatter, not actually flat. This is very interesting though, could you measure the pedal angles?

 

[Lilvodka]

On 9/7/2019 at 12:52 AM, mrelwood said:

I'm sure you mean flatter, not actually flat. This is very interesting though, could you measure the pedal angles?

 

Basically same angle as my 18XL.

[neurokinetik]

I've embarked on doing the same operation on my Nikola.  Just want to take a little of the angle off, about halfway between the KS-18L and the stock Nikola.  Already did some filing, just need to do a test ride and see how it feels.  I also replaced the ankle pads I had on there with something thicker (around 1/4") similar to what is on the KS-18L.  The bad thing about this is the pedals will no longer stay up, but it's a good tradeoff since I care more about how it feels when I'm riding long distances.  The Nikola isn't my commuter wheel, so I'm not trolleying it around like I do the KS-18L.

[neurokinetik]

Angle feels better on the test ride, but the ankle pads don't really accomplish what I'm looking for, which is to be able to get my feet locked in against the side of the wheel.  The way the shell angles away from the pedals prevents this, it seems.  The bottom part of the KS-18L shell is more vertical than the Nikola.