A couple more weird things with the 18L...

[Circuitmage]

 

Having had this just under 2 weeks, I had the "trolly lock up" issue and had to take it apart to disconnect the battery. I now notice a couple more strange things.

1) If you have bluetooth connected, turn unit off, then plug it in to charge, it says, "Bluetooth is connected". This is not super weird as it just indicates the system is powered while charging. But the fact it says something while powered off is a bit of a jolt.

2) I just found an issue that may be related to the trolly lock up. With the unit recharging, I thought I might put it on a stand while its charging. The unit was set to have lift sensor disabled, and it was off (but charging). As soon as I picked it up, it beeped...as if the lift sensor was activated. When I set it down again, it beeped again. Then it kept on beeping. After about 5 beeps I unplugged charger and tried to power it off. It turned on(remember it was off) but 2 or 3 lights at the top were red and it did not move. Fearing it was locked up again, I quickly hit the power button to turn it off again. Then on again it appeared to operate normally. 

Its charging now.

I suggest you not lift it while charging, or...maybe something is wrong with mine.?

[eddiemoy]

1 hour ago, Circuitmage said:

 

Having had this just under 2 weeks, I had the "trolly lock up" issue and had to take it apart to disconnect the battery. I now notice a couple more strange things.

1) If you have bluetooth connected, turn unit off, then plug it in to charge, it says, "Bluetooth is connected". This is not super weird as it just indicates the system is powered while charging. But the fact it says something while powered off is a bit of a jolt.

2) I just found an issue that may be related to the trolly lock up. With the unit recharging, I thought I might put it on a stand while its charging. The unit was set to have lift sensor disabled, and it was off (but charging). As soon as I picked it up, it beeped...as if the lift sensor was activated. When I set it down again, it beeped again. Then it kept on beeping. After about 5 beeps I unplugged charger and tried to power it off. It turned on(remember it was off) but 2 or 3 lights at the top were red and it did not move. Fearing it was locked up again, I quickly hit the power button to turn it off again. Then on again it appeared to operate normally. 

Its charging now.

I suggest you not lift it while charging, or...maybe something is wrong with mine.?

you have a white one?  i notice the red light on the top that shows through the white cover.  it is normal.  i've also notice the bluetooth connected thing when plugged in.  I just ignore it.  i think if you press the power button it disconnects.  i've not tried to lift it when it is powered on, i've been rolling it.  will go give it a go to see if the beep happens when charging.

-update

I just tried lifting it while it is plugged in, no beeping.  maybe your lift sensor isn't turned off.  i know mine is.  

[esaj]

7 hours ago, Circuitmage said:

 

Having had this just under 2 weeks, I had the "trolly lock up" issue and had to take it apart to disconnect the battery. I now notice a couple more strange things.

1) If you have bluetooth connected, turn unit off, then plug it in to charge, it says, "Bluetooth is connected". This is not super weird as it just indicates the system is powered while charging. But the fact it says something while powered off is a bit of a jolt.

The mainboards are always powered when the battery is connected, and the firmware is running. The low voltage logic circuits and such on the board draw negligible current, and probably they use some low-power "sleep-mode" of the MCU to further reduce the power use when turned "off".

The on/off switch is just a momentary, low current switch that gives a signal to the mainboard, where the firmware logic (hardware interrupt or such?) decides whether to "turn on or off" (ie. power the motor) or not. If the switch was really in the high current path, it would have to be physically much, much larger to withstand the high current, plus it would cut the power if you press it (or it malfunctions) while you're riding. Pretty much all the wheels work like this.

Btw, at least the KS16's (and probably others) can be used as BT-speakers while the wheel is otherwise "off", I've used them as speakers in barbeques and such 

 

 

[Circuitmage]

Ok, but I double checked this morning and my lift sensor in the app is disabled.

So, while charging it enables the lift sensor and if I power on it lights up the top LEDs and locks the wheel while constantly beeping? Very similar to when I had the trolly lock up.

And no, mine is the flat black. I'm not talking about the board LEDs, these are the led strips, and the were frozen with 2 or 3 red LEDs at the top of each.

[Stan Onymous]

On 7/19/2018 at 4:56 PM, Circuitmage said:

If you have bluetooth connected, turn unit off, then plug it in to charge, it says, "Bluetooth is connected". This is not super weird as it just indicates the system is powered while charging. But the fact it says something while powered off is a bit of a jolt.

Yeah, Ive been riding my ks14B and it will do the same thing. I walked into the Post Office today and turned off the power, but the bluetooth speakers were still connected and blasting in the echo chamber of the Post Office. It was better than their music though.

Does the ks18l pronounce bluetooth correctly, or does it still say Blautooth?

[Circuitmage]

The 16S and 18L sound similar, and sound correct. I'm guessing the 16S does the same thing...I just don't recall, haven't tried it lately.

 

[WaveCut]

I wish to add:

Is there anyone in the western world that had the faulty handle? Various users from Russia and CIS has it's broken from the box - it doesn't fix in set down position, so you can't carry it. I have personally witnessed 3 devices with that problem!  

[tim716]

I fully charged my device for the first time today (with the stock charger) and, checking the final battery voltage in the app, saw this:

Actually, it was jumping between 85.0 and 86.0V. I checked the charger output voltage with a voltmeter (without the load obviously) and it's 83,4V.

Anyway, now I seriously fear the possibility of fire. 86V is a 4.3 per cell! Can the controller voltmeter glitch by such an amount (almost 2V!), or can the charger produce much bigger voltage under load?

Does anybody else have it like this? Do I have to do something about it?

[US69]

3 hours ago, WaveCut said:

I wish to add:

Is there anyone in the western world that had the faulty handle? Various users from Russia and CIS has it's broken from the box - it doesn't fix in set down position, so you can't carry it. I have personally witnessed 3 devices with that problem!  

That’s actually allready adressed and also a warranty case...in the next batch the rods and holes and locks will be more stable!

[US69]

8 minutes ago, tim716 said:

I fully charged my device for the first time today (with the stock charger) and, checking the final battery voltage in the app, saw this:

Actually, it was jumping between 85.0 and 86.0V. I checked the charger output voltage with a voltmeter (without the load obviously) and it's 83,4V.

Anyway, now I seriously fear the possibility of fire. 86V is a 4.3 per cell! Can the controller voltmeter glitch by such an amount (almost 2V!), or can the charger produce much bigger voltage under load?

Does anybody else have it like this? Do I have to do something about it?

No, in my view you shouldnt fear anything...

The BMS (and you have 2) would not allow the batterys to get to such an high level...so it seams to be a misreading by the voltage board reader! Especially as you checked your charger by voltmeter!

Contact your seller about it...perhaps he might want to change your board!

(while as otherwise all works correct i would not do that) Thats my personal opionion!

 

[US69]

@Circuitmage

i have reported your case to KS...

You MIGHT be contacted by KS for further details!

again to all:

KS Is working hard to find this „trolley lock fault“....in daily contact with them!!!

[em1barns]

6 minutes ago, US69 said:

That’s actually allready adressed and also a warranty case...in the next batch the rods and holes and locks will be more stable!

I see my serial number is 20180707, so I assume this is the production date.

How do we know if it is part of the batch with enhanced rods and holes?

[Circuitmage]

Thanks @US69 . Last night I tried several times to reproduce the beeping and freeze while charging the 18L and was unable to. After my 2nd trolly lock up yesterday I wont be riding it until we can figure out what's going on.

[WaveCut]

4 hours ago, tim716 said:

I fully charged my device for the first time today (with the stock charger) and, checking the final battery voltage in the app, saw this:

Actually, it was jumping between 85.0 and 86.0V. I checked the charger output voltage with a voltmeter (without the load obviously) and it's 83,4V.

 

Detach the charger before checking actual battery voltage. It goes higher by ~1-2v when attached on Inmotions, too.

[tim716]

Thank you for your advice!

I disassembled the left side (no charger, power off), disconnected the battery and checked its voltage with a good voltmeter. It showed 81.25V. Before and after the check the controller showed 83.4V (I rode 5 km from fully charged before the check so the voltage dropped by ~2.5V from that initial "85.4-86V" fully charged from controller).

So yes, the controller misreads the voltage by about 2.2V (!). By the way, 85.6-2.2 = 83.4, the voltmeter measured voltage of my charger. All comes together.

The only concern I still have is that the controller will overrate the percentage of the the remaining battery and apply the protection too late. This can lead to a damaged battery one day if I overuse the battery.

[steve454]

14 hours ago, WaveCut said:

I wish to add:

Is there anyone in the western world that had the faulty handle? Various users from Russia and CIS has it's broken from the box - it doesn't fix in set down position, so you can't carry it. I have personally witnessed 3 devices with that problem!  

I wonder if the handles get damaged when they are shipped upside down, as in this photo?   Maybe the reports of wheels arriving dead from the power switch turning on were caused by shipping some of them upside down.  

[winter]

 

[syrupnew]

8 hours ago, nte said:

I ask because there has been some speculation about the lock up issue being related to the strain sensor not having the correct tension. Since KS has not been able to replicate the lock up problem, I wonder if KS has tried to trolley the 18L with improperly adjusted(via screw) strain sensor? Also because people will be receiving the stronger trolley components and this question will probably come up sooner or later.

This video does a pretty good job showing how to adjust the screw but the auto translate is not the best. In the video he puts pressure on the trolley tube while tightening the screw. Just wondering if there is an official procedure from kingsong.

 

About the tension sensor: the guy in the video shows that the (perpendicular) plate in the lower part of the aluminum handle has some play within its (plastic) groove. He suggests that while installing/adjusting the tension sensor screw, the plate on the handle must be set in the “lowest” possible position, to allow upward movement when the handle is lifted. The sensor screw is tightened to allow reliable connection between handle plate and sensor plate, but it is important not to overtighten it to make it immobile.

[US69]

17 hours ago, tim716 said:

The only concern I still have is that the controller will overrate the percentage of the the remaining battery and apply the protection too late. This can lead to a damaged battery one day if I overuse the battery.

That really, really  might not happen....

Normally KS is Rating a single cell as empty when it is at About 3.3Volt.....thats when your Wheel then Shows to be down to 0% battery! (Which btw, nobody should drive his Wheel down! i would Always advise to stop at 20% or 15% at latest, that would be at About 3,45-3,5 Volt per cell)

Actual the used celltype can go much, much lower than 3,3 Volt without ever getting damaged. The BMS is normally protecting the cells at around 2,9-3,0 Volts from undervoltage.

(Which also means your Wheel will not cut out at 0% battery, there is a LOT of safety margin build in)

 

 

[Circuitmage]

I must say, going back to the 16S from the 18L is a bit of a bummer, after my 2nd trolly lock up issue. I really enjoy the smooth ride of the larger wheel, I just can't be taking it apart every week in order to ride it.

Also, as some others have reported, the 16S seems to have more torque than the 18L. I have to stress that it only "SEEMS" to. As soon as I took my first ride on the 18L it was amazing how easily it got up to speed and I could see that I was going fast. Not sure if anyone has done any real world torque comparisons. 

I was starting to think about selling my 16S. Glad I didn't, as it is truely a wonderful machine.

 

[TomOnWheels]

5 hours ago, Circuitmage said:

I must say, going back to the 16S from the 18L is a bit of a bummer, after my 2nd trolly lock up issue. I really enjoy the smooth ride of the larger wheel, I just can't be taking it apart every week in order to ride it.

Also, as some others have reported, the 16S seems to have more torque than the 18L. I have to stress that it only "SEEMS" to. As soon as I took my first ride on the 18L it was amazing how easily it got up to speed and I could see that I was going fast. Not sure if anyone has done any real world torque comparisons. 

I was starting to think about selling my 16S. Glad I didn't, as it is truely a wonderful machine.

 

Stupid question but you did change the riding mode in the app ?

[Circuitmage]

No

[ntz]

Can I add another strange issue on the 18L..

I set the tilt-angle to -3 deg initially using iOS 3.04 and KS 1.07.   By "-" i mean so that the front of the pedal is higher than the back.   

For some reason, at anything over 10km/h on a flat surface the tilt seems to adjust itself to something +3 deg and it's very noticeable . I've increased the tilt angle to -6 deg and the issue is the same.  When i stop to take a reading it returns to the original calibration setting but I can't take an actual reading whilst riding

It almost feels like the horizontal sensor is detecting an uphill slope and adjusting itself. 

I always calibrate on a level surface using Light and Ruler.  Anyone else having similar issues?

[esaj]

6 hours ago, ntz said:

Can I add another strange issue on the 18L..

I set the tilt-angle to -3 deg initially using iOS 3.04 and KS 1.07.   By "-" i mean so that the front of the pedal is higher than the back.   

For some reason, at anything over 10km/h on a flat surface the tilt seems to adjust itself to something +3 deg and it's very noticeable . I've increased the tilt angle to -6 deg and the issue is the same.  When i stop to take a reading it returns to the original calibration setting but I can't take an actual reading whilst riding

It almost feels like the horizontal sensor is detecting an uphill slope and adjusting itself. 

I always calibrate on a level surface using Light and Ruler.  Anyone else having similar issues?

Are you on or have you tried the stiffest riding mode? The softer modes might allow some "leeway" once you've picked up some speed. The accelerometer/gyroscope don't detect uphills as such, just the rotation / "displacement" of the sensor itself (or more precisely, changes in that).

[TomOnWheels]

6 hours ago, ntz said:

Can I add another strange issue on the 18L..

I set the tilt-angle to -3 deg initially using iOS 3.04 and KS 1.07.   By "-" i mean so that the front of the pedal is higher than the back.   

For some reason, at anything over 10km/h on a flat surface the tilt seems to adjust itself to something +3 deg and it's very noticeable . I've increased the tilt angle to -6 deg and the issue is the same.  When i stop to take a reading it returns to the original calibration setting but I can't take an actual reading whilst riding

It almost feels like the horizontal sensor is detecting an uphill slope and adjusting itself. 

I always calibrate on a level surface using Light and Ruler.  Anyone else having similar issues?

Yes I noticed that too... and eventually used to that... Modern EUC gyros are 3D and also algorithms are dynamic. So I think it depends the speed, turning left/right, etc...  Then I'm thinking that we should not expect that if we adjust it to -3deg it will remain like that in any situation.