My Z10 Triumphs, Tribulations, and Failures

[steve454]

21 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Yes, I would not do this with anybody below me. Never have. I'm not totally reckless 

The wheel did not beep. There appears to be a problem with the speaker that occurred while @houseofjob had it.

Well, I'm certainly not here to convince you to buy the wheel. You are very particular. Probably should stick with what you have.

In @houseofjob's teardown video, I seem to recall that there were two speakers.  Have you tried playing music?  Also have you tried the different pedal sensitivities?  

Those hills are steep as hell.

[novazeus]

1 minute ago, Marty Backe said:

I still have a lot of riding to do. I do want to ride over bumpy grass fields, but I'm not going to ride where the pedals would be covered by the grass. That's why I said it's not the best single-track wheel. The pedals are too low. I'll continue to post what I do here.

great! well my pensacola bahia grass is pretty high in my pastures right now, yaay for the cows and i was wondering if enough of it snaggng the pedals would be enough to pull me down. 

my fox full face gets here saturday some maybe i’ll get a cool afternoon to test the V10F. 

i hope the Z10 is wildly popular and wheel manufactrers move towards more load capacity wider tires.

[Marty Backe]

1 minute ago, steve454 said:

In @houseofjob's teardown video, I seem to recall that there were two speakers.  Have you tried playing music?  Also have you tried the different pedal sensitivities?  

Those hills are steep as hell.

When searching for Bluetooth devices, no music device appears. I haven't tried very hard because I was under the impression from @houseofjob that the speaker(s) stopped functioning.

@houseofjob - what did you do to play music on the Z10?

[houseofjob]

7 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

When searching for Bluetooth devices, no music device appears. I haven't tried very hard because I was under the impression from @houseofjob that the speaker(s) stopped functioning.

@houseofjob - what did you do to play music on the Z10?

No, the speakers worked fine when I had the Z.

There should be a secondary, non-app bluetooth network (ala King Song & InMotion) called "Ninebot XXX" if I'm remembering correctly. It should pop-up via whatever bluetooth network search method is on your phone.

[Daniel Burkemper]

On ‎7‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 3:27 PM, Marty Backe said:

Regarding the Z10 - see @Stan Onymous's reply below  I can say that this wheel won't be a single psi wheel, that's for sure. 

Marty, do you still stand by this statement after trying the wheel at mid-30s PSI?

This is kind of the consensus I have gotten, that different conditions, ie; terrain, speed, agility, rider weight, etc. will determine the necessary PSI. I figure this is something we won't know for sure until we get our own feel for the wheel and make up our minds on what works individually. I am one of those "lighter guys", but I plan on using this as more of a commuter where bikes would normally be on the way to work. I always monitor forward terrain and try to avoid holes or cracks just to remain as safe as possible.

I went ahead and bought this off Amazon (~$50) in preparation of trying multiple pressures or transitioning terrains so I am not stuck with too high or low PSI for the situation.

 

Another question or topic, what would some good alternative trolley ideas be? I could see a strap like @Turbocharged would be easy to install and use, but not in all use-cases. I was onboard to suffer through the flimsy handle until I heard that it was rust-prone. I don't ride in rain often, but don't want to get it damaged if I get caught up in a Florida pop-up, which is a very plausible occurrence. Reaching down to push it or picking it up seems out of the question to me.

[houseofjob]

13 minutes ago, steve454 said:

In @houseofjob's teardown video, I seem to recall that there were two speakers.  Have you tried playing music?  

Might be mistaken, but the smaller one I believe is for the beeper, don't think it's to play music.... again, might be wrong about that, as I didn't connect to the Z while it was in pieces.

[Marty Backe]

5 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

No, the speakers worked fine when I had the Z.

There should be a secondary, non-app bluetooth network (ala King Song & InMotion) called "Ninebot XXX" if I'm remembering correctly. It should pop-up via whatever bluetooth network search method is on your phone.

Good to know. I'll try the Bluetooth again. The wheel itself sounds like it's trying to make sound when turning on or off. I have no reference point, and I thought I read somewhere that the sound stopped working when you update the firmware? Am I imagining this?

[winter]

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by nte

[houseofjob]

9 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Good to know. I'll try the Bluetooth again. The wheel itself sounds like it's trying to make sound when turning on or off. I have no reference point, and I thought I read somewhere that the sound stopped working when you update the firmware? Am I imagining this?

It's like @Turbocharged had said (and @nte linked prior):

AFAIK, for the final beta Z firmware v0.4.4, torque/performances was improved (I know this because I rode the old FW before updating.. was something like 0.3.x something), but for some reason, all the system sounds (power on, overspeed, overcharge, etc.) were neutered, now barely audible (on that initial FW when I received the Z, all the system sounds were nice, present and audible).

I believe @Turbocharged was saying that this is now fixed on the official Z release units, but the beta board and actual release boards are different; beta boards do not receive any more FW updates.

Edited July 16, 2018 by houseofjob

[steve454]

11 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Might be mistaken, but the smaller one I believe is for the beeper, don't think it's to play music.... again, might be wrong about that, as I didn't connect to the Z while it was in pieces.

That's what I was thinking, that if the beeper was not working, maybe it would still play music.  Now that I think of it, Chooch added an external bluetooth speaker in his later videos.  I just thought that either he didn't know about the built in music speaker, or it wasn't very good.

[houseofjob]

1 minute ago, steve454 said:

That's what I was thinking, that if the beeper was not working, maybe it would still play music.  Now that I think of it, Chooch added an external bluetooth speaker in his later videos.  I just thought that either he didn't know about the built in music speaker, or it wasn't very good.

Dunno if Chooch was aware (FWIW, we barely see his user pop-up on this forum ever), but the music speaker is IMHO on par with most current wheels, which is to say kinda OK-ish but not amazing.

TBF I didn't really put it through it's paces though, especially mid-ride (as the wind can drown out most speakers from the ears of riders on said wheel).

[Marty Backe]

28 minutes ago, Daniel Burkemper said:

Marty, do you still stand by this statement after trying the wheel at mid-30s PSI?

This is kind of the consensus I have gotten, that different conditions, ie; terrain, speed, agility, rider weight, etc. will determine the necessary PSI. I figure this is something we won't know for sure until we get our own feel for the wheel and make up our minds on what works individually. I am one of those "lighter guys", but I plan on using this as more of a commuter where bikes would normally be on the way to work. I always monitor forward terrain and try to avoid holes or cracks just to remain as safe as possible.

I went ahead and bought this off Amazon (~$50) in preparation of trying multiple pressures or transitioning terrains so I am not stuck with too high or low PSI for the situation.

 

Another question or topic, what would some good alternative trolley ideas be? I could see a strap like @Turbocharged would be easy to install and use, but not in all use-cases. I was onboard to suffer through the flimsy handle until I heard that it was rust-prone. I don't ride in rain often, but don't want to get it damaged if I get caught up in a Florida pop-up, which is a very plausible occurrence. Reaching down to push it or picking it up seems out of the question to me.

 

No. I now believe it's a one PSI wheel although the actual value will vary by the rider. At 35-psi the wheel rode great on payment and felt comparable to my other wheels on the rough trails. Traction on the loose gravel was similar to other wheels.

I'll have to shoot a short video to demonstrate how I adjusted the pressure in the field. Very fast, and I used my ultra-portable hand pump.

The trolley handle actually works, but it's very unsatistory from a user experience perspective. With this wheel I can't see how you could easily retrofit a different trolley. You are right in that you do not want to carry this wheel. I've read, like you, about the rusting. I don't believe this particular wheel has been in the rain, and it doesn't rain here much so I won't be worrying about rust.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Marty Backe

[Kael]

Well I’m glad the Z10 ended up not being a disappointment. It makes me very excited to contemplate future wheels. I hope it’s a commercial success for Ninebot, because solid build quality is what I favour in any products I buy and I’d certainly look to getting its successor or a revised version with new, higher pedals. 

[Unventor]

50 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Good to know. I'll try the Bluetooth again. The wheel itself sounds like it's trying to make sound when turning on or off. I have no reference point, and I thought I read somewhere that the sound stopped working when you update the firmware? Am I imagining this?

I have one short question, is it a fun wheel to ride? 

I don't recall you calling that our in any other vid from you....

[Marty Backe]

9 minutes ago, Kael said:

Well I’m glad the Z10 ended up not being a disappointment. It makes me very excited to contemplate future wheels. I hope it’s a commercial success for Ninebot, because solid build quality is what I favour in any products I buy and I’d certainly look to getting its successor or a revised version with new, higher pedals. 

BTW, this wheel is such a squat wheel I'm not sure higher pedals would work with it? FWIW, I haven't scraped the pedals yet. With the grip tape that @houseofjob added, the pedals seem fine to me as they are. But I seem to have tough feet. The pedals are certainly very wide if not long.

Considering that the Z10 is struggling to get shipped this year (or so it seems), if you're waiting for a successor you may have a long wait ahead of you.

[Marty Backe]

1 minute ago, Unventor said:

I have one short question, is it a fun wheel to ride? 

I don't recall you calling that our in any other vid from you....

Didn't you hear me screaming "this wheel is a blast" as I was riding the trail?

Yes, it's very fun. I look forward to riding it every chance I get.

[Unventor]

Just now, Marty Backe said:

Didn't you hear me screaming "this wheel is a blast" as I was riding the trail?

Yes, it's very fun. I look forward to riding it every chance I get.

I just needed to see it in print... for a non-Gotway wheel 

[houseofjob]

Everyone talking about a "successor" version Z I think do not understand how EUC business works.

The Z is a brand-spanking new design, which means they took a huge R&D $$$$$$ hit to make the shell molds, etc. Hence, probably why the price went up from the original estimated, as they need to recoup this investment before they can make a profit (the original price sounded kinda low to me in the first place, considering how much engineering clearly went into this EUC, both inside and out, more than any other EUC I've ever owned, including the older Ninebot wheels).

Any Z improvements in the next year IMHO will probably be more minor, small, absolute need-to-fix type stuff, to keep cost down. (like stuff integral to riding, which honestly, I can't see any show-stopping things on the Z as it is, only wishlist type things like the new longer pedals, etc.)

 

We all say, "if they made a safe, better made, better quality wheel, I would pay more money for that", right?

Well, IMHO this might very well be that wheel.

If you were ready to pull the trigger on the Z10 for $1,600 and subscribe to the above logic, $200 extra added to the retail price should not be a detractor... I know it isn't for me.

Edited July 16, 2018 by houseofjob

[Esper]

15 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Tragedies sounds so dismal  Hopefully I won't experience any of those 

Certainly better than Triumphs, Tribulations, and Totalities. Wouldn't you say? That last one sounds like death.

[FreeRide]

9 minutes ago, Esper said:

Certainly better than Triumphs, Tribulations, and Totalities. Wouldn't you say? That last one sounds like death.

I think his reviews are Triumphs, Tribulations, and Touchy-feelies.

[Daniel Burkemper]

Triumphs, Tribulations, and Terrible Trailing

[Marty Backe]

10 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Everyone talking about a "successor" version Z I think do not understand how EUC business works.

The Z is a brand-spanking new design, which means they took a huge R&D $$$$$$ hit to make the shell molds, etc. Hence, probably why the price went up from the original estimated, as they need to recoup this investment before they can make a profit (the original price sounded kinda low to me in the first place, considering how much engineering clearly went into this EUC, both inside and out, more than any other EUC I've ever owned, including the older Ninebot wheels).

Any Z improvements in the next year IMHO will probably be more minor, small, absolute need-to-fix type stuff, to keep cost down. (like stuff integral to riding, which honestly, I can't see any show-stopping things on the Z as it is, only wishlist type things like the new longer pedals, etc.)

We all say, "if they made a safe, better made wheel, I would pay more money for that", right?

Well, IMHO this might very well be that wheel. If you were ready to pull the trigger on the Z10 for $1,600 and subscribe to the above mindset, $200 should not be a detractor... I know it isn't for me.

Well said. This is an exciting wheel to own (even if my ownership only lasts a few weeks) and I'm always looking forward to the next time I step on the pedals. This is a very impressive wheel in person.

I have a lot more riding to do, and I suppose a show stopper could be around the corner. But I doubt it.

I recently visited and rode the 18L. Although certainly a nice wheel by all accounts, it doesn't stir my primal emotions like the Z10 does  I kind of feel funny saying this, as the perceived Gotway guy, but I'm now anticipating my personal Z10 more than the MSuper X .

[Jerome]

Thanks for the reports and videos Marty. You are proving what I suspected all along. You are a "fanboy" of well designed, well built, well performing wheels regardless of brand. You are a "true enthusiast" and not someone who needs to justify their choices or pick what all the "cool kids are riding". Keep them coming!

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

  <Quickly cancels all those Gotway T-shirts, now making them Ninebot Z T-shirts>  

[Marty Backe]

4 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

  <Quickly cancels all those Gotway T-shirts, now making them Ninebot Z T-shirts>  

Sorry Hunka. I should have run this by you first