My Z10 Triumphs, Tribulations, and Failures

[winter]

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by nte

[novazeus]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

It is a 3-pin plug. What's interesting about the Z10 is that there are two apparently independent battery packs. As you use the wheel, the battery voltages diverge. Even the primary battery status on the main screen shows two separate battery percentages (e.g. 99% / 97%). So you can say that the 2-amp charger is a dual charger because I suspect each battery is being charged independently.

the little s1 and s2 battery packs show up independently on the app too.

i wish inmotion and kingsong would adopt segway’s K I S S formula of app design. 

never turn loose a techy nerd on designing an app. they try to get too fancy, too cutting edge and the pos becomes too bloated and unreliable. that’s my rant for every  software designer since the inception of the internet. from dial up, to dsl, to cable wireless, and now fios, they try to gobble up all the bandwidth they can and forget about the basics.

[Lukasz]

17 minutes ago, novazeus said:

i wish inmotion and kingsong would adopt segway’s K I S S formula of app design. 

I had been suggesting that to Kingsong...   Their old ("green") application was much better than the new orange one which is total b.s.  I never use it as it is unreadable. I will be missing WheelLog+Pebble setup a lot until some clever programmer decide to add communication with Z10 to it. If anyone of readers have knowledge, or have the friend who has the BT protocol communication knowledge to add it to WheelLog  (source code of WheelLog is publicly available on GitHub) would be great achievement... 

Edited July 14, 2018 by Lukasz

[US69]

16 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

I've said it once, but I'll say it again.  Chooch is a choch.  Plain and simple.  How did he even get on the test drive list?  I know, I know, it's all about the clicks and views, but I'll never watch another Chooch video so help me God.  Ever since his little incident with Ian Sampson over at Speedyfeet plus the stabbing thing I've lost all respect for the kid.    He could be the master EUC rider super skill dude of the century, but he's dead to me.  

Funny thing is that before all that I loved his riding through the snow with the Ninebot video and some of this other riding ones.  The kid can ride an EUC, I'll give him that.  Oh well, some people have a lot of growing up to do.  What goes around comes around I always say.  It might be a generational difference thing, but yeah no I think not.

Hunka,

If i could...i would give you a hundred plus reputation on this one!

Exactly mz thoughts and you can also read it in your linked threads!

I mean, that goes all together: He gets the wheelm in time, prettyz cleaned up, and then he takes it about 12-14days longer than the average guy to use it! Then he packs it up....no clean at all...all his mod smear all around...losing some pieces...

Thats exactly what i would have exspected.....i dont know the meaning of „chooch“ ...but i would translate it to German „Depp”!

but hey, ok, we all have been at the age of twelve sometime ago ...... ?

Edited July 14, 2018 by US69

[Marty Backe]

18 minutes ago, US69 said:

Hunka,

If i could...i would give you a hundred plus reputation on this one!

Exactly mz thoughts and you can also read it in your linked threads!

I mean, that goes all together: He gets the wheelm in time, prettyz cleaned up, and then he takes it about 12-14days longer than the average guy to use it! Then he packs it up....no clean at all...all his mod smear all around...losing some pieces...

Thats exactly what i would have exspected.....i dont know the meaning of „chooch“ ...but i would translate it to German „Depp”!

but hey, ok, we all have been at the age of twelve sometime ago ...... ?

I understand what you're saying, but I didn't mean to be too hard on Chooch (see my smiley faces). It's meant to be good natured ribbing, on my part.

All's good now with the wheel 

[US69]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

It is a 3-pin plug. What's interesting about the Z10 is that there are two apparently independent battery packs. As you use the wheel, the battery voltages diverge. Even the primary battery status on the main screen shows two separate battery percentages (e.g. 99% / 97%). So you can say that the 2-amp charger is a dual charger because I suspect each battery is being charged independently.

each pack might be charged indepently...but it is the same as on example on all gotway wheels...one chargeport...which in the wheel splits to charge each pack “independently “....but its not a dual charger because of this....as the packs hang in parallell on this one charger!

That might be....at all...a very intersting question! As the 9bot one e plus BMS missed real balancing of the cells....hopefully this is know inside the BMS’S of this wheel!!!  (but i am more than sure it is....to leave each of the 14s3p packs without balancing....that would be areal bummer!

[iCafe]

What World Cup? 

What whole world want to see is Marty's Z10 videos! ? 

[Turbocharged]

6 hours ago, Lukasz said:

 @Turbocharged  Can You maybe give us some clue

In battery "unbalance" state we will get some error message / wheel disabled status?  

Yes, there will be error message. If it is unbalanced, usually it will need battery maintenance, or even replacement.

what happens if one "power set" fails? does it mean switch off / fall or some emergency slowdown / safe speed decrease?

If you are not running too fast, you are safe. I don’t know about Zs, for a S2, if I remember it correctly, with similar battery system, you will be ok if one set of battery suddenly fails while you are under 25kph and not accelerating. 

Would it be possible to charge the Z10 from 2 chargers, or if there is the plan to release some kind of "fast" charger?   (if You mention that charging "overnight" may not be enough with standard charger... )

Yes, there is a 4A charger waiting for approval, but I can’t be sure if it will ever make its way to us... safety first.

I did not confirm these with Ninebot, there are what I know / hear.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Turbocharged

[Lukasz]

@Turbocharged Can you confirm if Z10 power supply in fact use 3 pins + , + , -  (so if it is in some way 2 separate power supplies) or it is just + and -   so two pins in use only?

Edited July 14, 2018 by Lukasz

[Turbocharged]

6 minutes ago, Lukasz said:

@Turbocharged Can you confirm if Z10 power supply in fact use 3 pins (so if it is in some way 2 separate power supplies) or it is just + and -   so two pins in use only?

I think it’s using 2 at a time, there is no specific direction requirement when you plug it in.

I will confirm this with Ninebot, if I am wrong I’ll let you know.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Turbocharged

[novazeus]

now anxiously awaiting marty’s review. got the mass email from jason and i see the z10 price is now $200 more @$1799.

i wonder if this price increase will cool enthusiasm over this wheel.

[fryman]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

now anxiously awaiting marty’s review. got the mass email from jason and i see the z10 price is now $200 more @$1799.

i wonder if this price increase will cool enthusiasm over this wheel.

That’s high for a 900wh wheel. ?

[Lukasz]

34 minutes ago, Turbocharged said:

I think it’s using 2 at a time, there is no specific direction requirement when you plug it in.

I have found the picture of the connector but I did not realize that there is in fact the pin in the middle.... 

In case You have the access to multimeter  and knowledge how to use it - can You measure the voltage between middle pin and each of side pins? is the voltage different (even if very small difference)? 

If the voltage is exactly the same - please measure voltage between side pins. If it is 0,00 V it is very likely that the power supply has in fact one channel, and the difference in voltage is reported by BMSes (which are for sure separate for each battery pack) 

Next test would be to measure if side pins are in fact connected with each other with resistance meter (however this measurement has to be done with power supply disconnected from the mains for a few hours, and with earlier measurement that there is 0V between middle pin and side pins as capacitors in the power supply can still keep charge) so I do not recommend to do this measurement unless You have some basic electrical engineer experience.  

 

 

[Lukasz]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

i see the z10 price is now $200 more @$1799

Chinese price is 9999 Yuan, which is almost 1500 USD...  Please add shipment cost, margin, tax, customs?  (as USA is entering the trade war with China...) reserve for servicing... and it can for now mount to 1800 USD easily...

[winter]

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by nte

[FreeRide]

2 hours ago, novazeus said:

now anxiously awaiting marty’s review. got the mass email from jason and i see the z10 price is now $200 more @$1799.

i wonder if this price increase will cool enthusiasm over this wheel.

Given that air shipment is another $190 to get it before summer is over, this is definitely an expensive wheel.  No bargain being an early adopter on this one, but you do get to enjoy it this year.  I'm happy to see Ninebot seems to have produced a very quality wheel with adequate speed and battery capacity, but It's still a tough decision at the current price.

[Lukasz]

2 minutes ago, FreeRide said:

but It's still a tough decision at the current price.

You are fortunate to have good reputation local dealer Jason McNeal around..  We in Europe have to use AliExpress to get it...  

[FreeRide]

4 minutes ago, Lukasz said:

You are fortunate to have good reputation local dealer Jason McNeal around..  We in Europe have to use AliExpress to get it...  

This is true!

[novazeus]

12 minutes ago, FreeRide said:

Given that air shipment is another $190 to get it before summer is over, this is definitely an expensive wheel.  No bargain being an early adopter on this one, but you do get to enjoy it this year.  I'm happy to see Ninebot seems to have produced a very quality wheel with adequate speed and battery capacity, but It's still a tough decision at the current price.

the way i read the email, the first shipment has the old e+ pedals, which are my least favorite, the shoddy, prone to premature rust trolley hand(which i won’t put on, mudflap either, but included) and evidently the headlight is aimed into the trees instead of the road. but with enough pressure exerted on 9bot, they might make changes on further production runs. 

i felt like i was getting a deal by ordering early for the v10f with 10% off, and the subsequent wheel order, the 18L, according to jason was a discount @$1580 and indeed it was because it’s price is now $1780. plus factoring in this tariff stuff, it made sense.

i can’t see this wheel going much higher than $1800 and i’m wondering if i’d be better off with the second or third generation of this wheel.

i’ve got plenty of wheels to keep me entertained and if i decided not to get the z10 on first batch, waiting might get me a better wheel.

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, fryman said:

That’s high for a 900wh wheel. ?

960wh to be exact 

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, Lukasz said:

I have found the picture of the connector but I did not realize that there is in fact the pin in the middle.... 

In case You have the access to multimeter  and knowledge how to use it - can You measure the voltage between middle pin and each of side pins? is the voltage different (even if very small difference)? 

If the voltage is exactly the same - please measure voltage between side pins. If it is 0,00 V it is very likely that the power supply has in fact one channel, and the difference in voltage is reported by BMSes (which are for sure separate for each battery pack) 

Next test would be to measure if side pins are in fact connected with each other with resistance meter (however this measurement has to be done with power supply disconnected from the mains for a few hours, and with earlier measurement that there is 0V between middle pin and side pins as capacitors in the power supply can still keep charge) so I do not recommend to do this measurement unless You have some basic electrical engineer experience.  

 

 

That's the connector. It's clear to me that the center pin is ground and the other pins feed each battery. I'm not going to be probing the power brick since there's only one in the United States right now and I'd rather not take a risk however small.

[Turbocharged]

8 hours ago, Lukasz said:

I have found the picture of the connector but I did not realize that there is in fact the pin in the middle.... 

In case You have the access to multimeter  and knowledge how to use it - can You measure the voltage between middle pin and each of side pins? is the voltage different (even if very small difference)? 

If the voltage is exactly the same - please measure voltage between side pins. If it is 0,00 V it is very likely that the power supply has in fact one channel, and the difference in voltage is reported by BMSes (which are for sure separate for each battery pack) 

Next test would be to measure if side pins are in fact connected with each other with resistance meter (however this measurement has to be done with power supply disconnected from the mains for a few hours, and with earlier measurement that there is 0V between middle pin and side pins as capacitors in the power supply can still keep charge) so I do not recommend to do this measurement unless You have some basic electrical engineer experience.  

 

 

I don’t have the equipment... this is the other end, don’t know if it would help.

[Vikas]

On 7/14/2018 at 4:30 AM, Marty Backe said:

15-psi for my weight (175-pounds).

Thanks very much. So I take it that the formula is 10 % of your body weight ?

[US69]

5 hours ago, Turbocharged said:

I don’t have the equipment... this is the other end, don’t know if it would help.

To be honest...

I don’t understand the things going on about the charger...

Even if it is giving out „2 powerlines“....in the end its what it is  standing on the backside...which is something like 59volt-2amps!

and like said....it s the same on all Gotways...one chargeport...and directly behind the line is split into 2 or even more batterypacks!

So i also would never call that a „dual charger“.....

It is what it is...your charger provides a voltage at an set amperage (before the balancing starts)....

No need to get crazy about the proprietary chargeport on the one Z.

 

will get better as soon as there are fastcharging solutions out there...which should be no prob at a 14s6p pack (or 2xtimes 14s3p if you want)....

Mostly i am still intereested if the cells are balanced...and i dont mean the balancing between the 2 of 14s3p packs...which are shown seperatly in the app or whereelse....

I mean the balancing of each of the 14cells inside one pack.....again: That was missing totally on the 9b one plus! Which made his battery degrade very fast.....hopefully they have changed THAT!

 

[Lukasz]

31 minutes ago, US69 said:

Even if it is giving out „2 powerlines“....in the end its what it is  standing on the backside...which is something like 59volt-2amps!

That is what I expect that both of the side pins are connected into the same +  of the power supply. I will heck this as soon as my Z10 arrives which is expected in around 2-3 weeks.

 

34 minutes ago, US69 said:

I mean the balancing of each of the 14cells inside one pack.....again: That was missing totally on the 9b one plus! Which made his battery degrade very fast.....hopefully they have changed THAT!

Yes, this is very important - @Turbocharged Can You possibly ask engineers ?