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Marty Backe

My Z10 Triumphs, Tribulations, and Failures

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Posted (edited)

 

Edited by nte
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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, novazeus said:

i wish inmotion and kingsong would adopt segway’s K I S S formula of app design. 

I had been suggesting that to Kingsong...   Their old ("green") application was much better than the new orange one which is total b.s.  I never use it as it is unreadable. I will be missing WheelLog+Pebble setup a lot until some clever programmer decide to add communication with Z10 to it. If anyone of readers have knowledge, or have the friend who has the BT protocol communication knowledge to add it to WheelLog  (source code of WheelLog is publicly available on GitHub) would be great achievement... 

Edited by Lukasz
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1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

It is a 3-pin plug. What's interesting about the Z10 is that there are two apparently independent battery packs. As you use the wheel, the battery voltages diverge. Even the primary battery status on the main screen shows two separate battery percentages (e.g. 99% / 97%). So you can say that the 2-amp charger is a dual charger because I suspect each battery is being charged independently.

each pack might be charged indepently...but it is the same as on example on all gotway wheels...one chargeport...which in the wheel splits to charge each pack “independently “....but its not a dual charger because of this....as the packs hang in parallell on this one charger!

That might be....at all...a very intersting question! As the 9bot one e plus BMS missed real balancing of the cells....hopefully this is know inside the BMS’S of this wheel!!!  (but i am more than sure it is....to leave each of the 14s3p packs without balancing....that would be areal bummer!

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What World Cup? 

What whole world want to see is Marty's Z10 videos! 😉 

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Posted (edited)

@Turbocharged Can you confirm if Z10 power supply in fact use 3 pins + , + , -  (so if it is in some way 2 separate power supplies) or it is just + and -   so two pins in use only?

Edited by Lukasz

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Lukasz said:

@Turbocharged Can you confirm if Z10 power supply in fact use 3 pins (so if it is in some way 2 separate power supplies) or it is just + and -   so two pins in use only?

I think it’s using 2 at a time, there is no specific direction requirement when you plug it in.

I will confirm this with Ninebot, if I am wrong I’ll let you know.

Edited by Turbocharged

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now anxiously awaiting marty’s review. got the mass email from jason and i see the z10 price is now $200 more @$1799.

i wonder if this price increase will cool enthusiasm over this wheel.

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1 hour ago, novazeus said:

now anxiously awaiting marty’s review. got the mass email from jason and i see the z10 price is now $200 more @$1799.

i wonder if this price increase will cool enthusiasm over this wheel.

That’s high for a 900wh wheel. 🤨

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34 minutes ago, Turbocharged said:

I think it’s using 2 at a time, there is no specific direction requirement when you plug it in.

I have found the picture of the connector but I did not realize that there is in fact the pin in the middle.... 

In case You have the access to multimeter  and knowledge how to use it - can You measure the voltage between middle pin and each of side pins? is the voltage different (even if very small difference)? 

If the voltage is exactly the same - please measure voltage between side pins. If it is 0,00 V it is very likely that the power supply has in fact one channel, and the difference in voltage is reported by BMSes (which are for sure separate for each battery pack) 

Next test would be to measure if side pins are in fact connected with each other with resistance meter (however this measurement has to be done with power supply disconnected from the mains for a few hours, and with earlier measurement that there is 0V between middle pin and side pins as capacitors in the power supply can still keep charge) so I do not recommend to do this measurement unless You have some basic electrical engineer experience.  

 

 

power supply.jpg

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1 hour ago, novazeus said:

i see the z10 price is now $200 more @$1799

Chinese price is 9999 Yuan, which is almost 1500 USD...  Please add shipment cost, margin, tax, customs?  (as USA is entering the trade war with China...) reserve for servicing... and it can for now mount to 1800 USD easily...

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Posted (edited)

 

Edited by nte

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2 hours ago, novazeus said:

now anxiously awaiting marty’s review. got the mass email from jason and i see the z10 price is now $200 more @$1799.

i wonder if this price increase will cool enthusiasm over this wheel.

Given that air shipment is another $190 to get it before summer is over, this is definitely an expensive wheel.  No bargain being an early adopter on this one, but you do get to enjoy it this year.  I'm happy to see Ninebot seems to have produced a very quality wheel with adequate speed and battery capacity, but It's still a tough decision at the current price.

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4 minutes ago, Lukasz said:

You are fortunate to have good reputation local dealer Jason McNeal around..  We in Europe have to use AliExpress to get it...  

This is true!

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12 minutes ago, FreeRide said:

Given that air shipment is another $190 to get it before summer is over, this is definitely an expensive wheel.  No bargain being an early adopter on this one, but you do get to enjoy it this year.  I'm happy to see Ninebot seems to have produced a very quality wheel with adequate speed and battery capacity, but It's still a tough decision at the current price.

the way i read the email, the first shipment has the old e+ pedals, which are my least favorite, the shoddy, prone to premature rust trolley hand(which i won’t put on, mudflap either, but included) and evidently the headlight is aimed into the trees instead of the road. but with enough pressure exerted on 9bot, they might make changes on further production runs. 

i felt like i was getting a deal by ordering early for the v10f with 10% off, and the subsequent wheel order, the 18L, according to jason was a discount @$1580 and indeed it was because it’s price is now $1780. plus factoring in this tariff stuff, it made sense.

i can’t see this wheel going much higher than $1800 and i’m wondering if i’d be better off with the second or third generation of this wheel.

i’ve got plenty of wheels to keep me entertained and if i decided not to get the z10 on first batch, waiting might get me a better wheel.

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5 hours ago, fryman said:

That’s high for a 900wh wheel. 🤨

960wh to be exact :D

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5 hours ago, Lukasz said:

I have found the picture of the connector but I did not realize that there is in fact the pin in the middle.... 

In case You have the access to multimeter  and knowledge how to use it - can You measure the voltage between middle pin and each of side pins? is the voltage different (even if very small difference)? 

If the voltage is exactly the same - please measure voltage between side pins. If it is 0,00 V it is very likely that the power supply has in fact one channel, and the difference in voltage is reported by BMSes (which are for sure separate for each battery pack) 

Next test would be to measure if side pins are in fact connected with each other with resistance meter (however this measurement has to be done with power supply disconnected from the mains for a few hours, and with earlier measurement that there is 0V between middle pin and side pins as capacitors in the power supply can still keep charge) so I do not recommend to do this measurement unless You have some basic electrical engineer experience.  

 

 

power supply.jpg

That's the connector. It's clear to me that the center pin is ground and the other pins feed each battery. I'm not going to be probing the power brick since there's only one in the United States right now and I'd rather not take a risk however small.

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8 hours ago, Lukasz said:

I have found the picture of the connector but I did not realize that there is in fact the pin in the middle.... 

In case You have the access to multimeter  and knowledge how to use it - can You measure the voltage between middle pin and each of side pins? is the voltage different (even if very small difference)? 

If the voltage is exactly the same - please measure voltage between side pins. If it is 0,00 V it is very likely that the power supply has in fact one channel, and the difference in voltage is reported by BMSes (which are for sure separate for each battery pack) 

Next test would be to measure if side pins are in fact connected with each other with resistance meter (however this measurement has to be done with power supply disconnected from the mains for a few hours, and with earlier measurement that there is 0V between middle pin and side pins as capacitors in the power supply can still keep charge) so I do not recommend to do this measurement unless You have some basic electrical engineer experience.  

 

 

power supply.jpg

I don’t have the equipment... this is the other end, don’t know if it would help.

B95A1EA7-8433-4C58-AD75-8CBA57AB9004.thumb.png.1fb826f131bf0f9169e12d3884983e3a.png

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On 7/14/2018 at 4:30 AM, Marty Backe said:

15-psi for my weight (175-pounds).

Thanks very much. So I take it that the formula is 10 % of your body weight ?

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5 hours ago, Turbocharged said:

I don’t have the equipment... this is the other end, don’t know if it would help.

B95A1EA7-8433-4C58-AD75-8CBA57AB9004.thumb.png.1fb826f131bf0f9169e12d3884983e3a.png

To be honest...

I don’t understand the things going on about the charger...

Even if it is giving out „2 powerlines“....in the end its what it is  standing on the backside...which is something like 59volt-2amps!

and like said....it s the same on all Gotways...one chargeport...and directly behind the line is split into 2 or even more batterypacks!

So i also would never call that a „dual charger“.....

It is what it is...your charger provides a voltage at an set amperage (before the balancing starts)....

No need to get crazy about the proprietary chargeport on the one Z.

 

will get better as soon as there are fastcharging solutions out there...which should be no prob at a 14s6p pack (or 2xtimes 14s3p if you want)....

Mostly i am still intereested if the cells are balanced...and i dont mean the balancing between the 2 of 14s3p packs...which are shown seperatly in the app or whereelse....

I mean the balancing of each of the 14cells inside one pack.....again: That was missing totally on the 9b one plus! Which made his battery degrade very fast.....hopefully they have changed THAT!

 

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31 minutes ago, US69 said:

Even if it is giving out „2 powerlines“....in the end its what it is  standing on the backside...which is something like 59volt-2amps!

That is what I expect that both of the side pins are connected into the same +  of the power supply. I will heck this as soon as my Z10 arrives which is expected in around 2-3 weeks.

 

34 minutes ago, US69 said:

I mean the balancing of each of the 14cells inside one pack.....again: That was missing totally on the 9b one plus! Which made his battery degrade very fast.....hopefully they have changed THAT!

Yes, this is very important - @Turbocharged Can You possibly ask engineers ?

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