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mrelwood

Gotway Msuper X 1600Wh, first day

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4 hours ago, dieterGRAMS said:

Any insight/tips? 

I would try a knee-acceleration: while leaning forwards, bend your knees but keep the hips straight. Same when braking: sit down in a chair. My angled sidepads are positioned so that I can lean my bent knees on them while I accelerate, and calves on the rear part when I brake. They make a huge difference for me.

I am 193cm and 95kgs with an EU46 shoe, and the X is the very opposite from being ”peppy”. I think adding leverage is the only solution that can work. Our shoes already go past the pedal ends, so increasing the shoe would probably not even help much.

I also noticed the pedal dip under repeated rough terrain! My A3 does the same. I think it’s a programming oversight. I still keep my X on the medium setting, since I feel the braking aid is significant for safety. If the pedals dip, I lean to the angled sidepads to make sure I keep my balance. Same with a steep and rough incline, the wheel will tilt and it feels like I’m losing traction, but if I just lean on the angled sidepads, I force the wheel to utilize it’s full power before I’m actually in danger of falling forward.

I did feel as if the leverage was ever so slightly better after I lowered the dihedral pedal angle. The angle changed enough for the pedals to become lower, which moved them further from the center axle of the wheel. After noticing that I switched to shoes with a thinner sole. Same thing!

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38 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I also noticed the pedal dip under repeated rough terrain! My A3 does the same. I think it’s a programming oversight.

Great, its not just me. Yea I think its part of the programming.

I recalibrated earlier and that made a significant diff. My pedals were tipped forward. I thought it was just the dihedral slope ?

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20 minutes ago, dieterGRAMS said:

I recalibrated earlier and that made a significant diff. My pedals were tipped forward.

Every new wheel should be calibrated before taken in use. My X calibration was off 7 degrees! I seem to like it best at 2 degrees forward, but without the angled side pads I think I would go level, or even a bit backwards like on the 16S.

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check my signature.. im so exited i cant wait :w00t2:

ill start waterproofing and putting new sidepads on it as soon as i test it a little

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On 7/22/2018 at 2:41 AM, mrelwood said:

Every new wheel should be calibrated before taken in use. My X calibration was off 7 degrees! I seem to like it best at 2 degrees forward, but without the angled side pads I think I would go level, or even a bit backwards like on the 16S.

does it have pedal dip when turning once calibrated, i heard someone mention it dipped a little, my kingsong did till i calibrated it 

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33 minutes ago, stephen said:

does it have pedal dip when turning once calibrated, i heard someone mention it dipped a little, my kingsong did till i calibrated it 

No pedal dip. Not like older gotway wheels anyway. You still have some at low speed but its light and smooth. 

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@mrelwood

can you explain how you made the pedal angle lower? I really want mine down mainly becuase of some kneee issues that aill get worsened if i keep riding with these steep pedals

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Shad0z said:

@mrelwood

can you explain how you made the pedal angle lower? I really want mine down mainly becuase of some kneee issues that aill get worsened if i keep riding with these steep pedals

I see you already made the modification, but for the sake of reference, the photos of the operation are at page 2:

 

@Adel explained the process in great detail:

 

Edited by mrelwood
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I alreadt did the mod today 5 hours ago, its very easy, and wow, now my feet arent trying to stand ona n edge but on a pedal! now this wheel is all good! :D 

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On 7/10/2018 at 7:46 PM, mrelwood said:

I received the X today. I felt that I was prepared for what it means to receive a Gotway after a full year and 9000km on a KingSong 16S. I had watched several unboxings, first impressions, reviews and ofcourse the famous Ecodrift's teardown/bashing on the X. For the most part I was prepared to what I got, the handle being the only positive surprise. Not a KS handle of course, but it is solid and very usable.

But there is one severe issue I wasn't able to prepare for. It truly baffled me, and it prevents me from riding for more than a few kilometers at a time:

Pedals: It's the sideways (dihedral?) angle of the pedals. (Update: The other pedal sets at 15 degrees while the other is at 13, so this seems to be an isolated case of manufacturing tolerances.) It's up there guys. We're talking about past Lhotz levels (IIRC). It's just ridiculous, and I do like angled pedals! The 3" tire wants to stay upright a bit at curves, so there is some sideways over-leaning to do. This sets the inner leg ankle and foot to an even worse situation, and I feel as I should keep my feet way past the side edge of the pedals in order to even manage turns at faster than jogging speeds. I felt quite natural on the old Msuper V3 I got to try one time, the ergonomics were very good for me. Not so on the X. This issue is a show stopper for me, so I have to come up with a solution or I won't be able (or even want) to ride the X. (I solved the issue, read on my day two, link below.)

Quality: The materials, design, build quality, and operational behavior don't present the cost of the wheel in the slightest. The whole wheel looks plasticy, the shell material is familiar from childrens' toys, the shape and design are full of afterthoughts, and the wheel rides laboured and like a worn out car with tiny noises and vibrations all the time. The shell creaks when I mount. The pedals drop and rattle to both open and closed positions. My 16S feels like a solid new wheel compared, even after 9000+kms. I do hope some of the noises and vibrations would smooth out in time, but I won't hold my breath.

Operation: I assume that just running a motor of this type is a complicated process, and unless finely tuned, the operation is not smooth. The 16S glides forward completely effortlessly, like flying. The old Msuper V3 I tried was also churny, but not this bad. Some vibrations are locked to a certain speed, some to specific motor load levels. There is a lot more power even at standstill compared to the 16S though, and the X has no problem keeping me steady at a slope where the 16S feels like it's running out of power. But I felt so uncomfortable and insecure riding the X that I had a hard time going past 20km/h. My accelerations were on the grandpa spectrum. I will have to solve the pedal angle in order to get any idea of normal riding speeds and conditions.

Tire: My test ride was a short one, so truly just first impressions. Tire came pumped to 2.0 bars. I pumped it up further and tried so far with 3.0 and 2.8 bars. I don't think I'm at the sweet spot, as some bumps disappear (curbs up), but some are perhaps even amplified (curbs down). Seems to handle softer fine gravel on a new cycle path exceptionally well! Didn't feel insecure at all, while I do quite a bit on a 16x2.5" version of the same Chao Yang H-5102 tire. This is the second most important reason I got the wheel, so I'm relieved!

Ergonomics: Quite different from the Msuper V3. I loved the ergonomics on the V3, to me it felt natural, and the pedals felt big enough for my EU46 shoe. The ergonomics on the X are horrible, my feet still burn 6 hours after a 30min trip. (Update: The other pedal sets at 15 degrees while the other is at 13, so this seems to be an isolated case of manufacturing tolerances.) The sidepads really are a joke, but luckily easily rectified. The bottom corners of the carrying handle tend to hurt a bit.

App: I need to use the app a lot more to understand what it does and when. If I change the mode while the wheel is in motion, the app confirms the change and shows the new setting but the wheel didn't change the mode after all. The app also doesn't seem to remember settings, or they reset when I connect with the wheel. The app doesn't connect automatically, atleast if the wheel is powered on first. I was able to calibrate the wheel, since it came with a 5 degree forward angle. The process is similiar to that of KS. The battery percentage metering is very coarse, showing only even tens.

Charger: A 340Wh IPS Lhotz came with a 2A charger 19 months ago. The 1600Wh Msuper X comes with a 1.5A charger today. This is just... cruel.

 

Conclusion: After the first day I don't think the Msuper X is a wheel worth buying unless you are absolutely ready to make new sidepads and (perhaps) modify the pedals. To me it is not rideable otherwise. I know I have a lot of work to do to make it a wheel I'd use when I already have a 1000Wh 16S with a 16"x2.5" tire and bigfoot pedals. But I wanted a 1600Wh battery on a wide 18" tire, so I'm going to do my best to make this work.

Update: As my other pedal didn’t sit as low as intended, I must note that the intended pedal angle of 13 degrees is notable but shouldn’t be a show stopper to most.

 

Day two (later in this thread): https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/10747-gotway-msuper-x-1600wh-first-day/?do=findComment&comment=175517

Day three (later in this thread): https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/10747-gotway-msuper-x-1600wh-first-day/?do=findComment&comment=175781

 

WOW. Great review man. The one thing I was interested in is the 35+ mph, but what's the point if you can't get there comfortably and safely. Thanks alot.

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5 hours ago, Jediah Matthew said:

WOW. Great review man. The one thing I was interested in is the 35+ mph, but what's the point if you can't get there comfortably and safely. Thanks alot.

This is what happened with my speeds over the course of getting familiar with the wheel:

Anything above 35km/h felt super fast after 9000km on the 16S, so while the MSX felt as steady as ever, my brain was not ready for the faster speeds. As I gained trust and became more familiar with the wheel, my comfortable top speed slowly creeped up. Once I reached about 45km/h I thought that was enough, and tried to keep it as my personal top speed.

I didn’t check my top speeds for a week or two, just went with what I felt comfortable with. One day though I decided to check just to know where I’m at. It was at the end of a small downhill, a straight and very familiar paved bicycle way, no intersections, no-one else around. As the app opened up my speed just reached 51km/h. For a 91kg rider the MSX has no adverse effects in stability or feeling of power compared to any lower speed, so any personal mental speed limit is easily hacked.

That was a wake up call for me though. Not enough safety gear in the world to make such speeds safe or sane on an EUC. I have since kept my max speed below 47. The difference is not that big, but I had to stop myself from going further.

When riding with a 16S rider the 35km/h now feels like a peaceful cruising speed for looking at sceneries. Not at all like a top travel speed.

The MSX is a dangerously stable and powerful wheel at any speed.

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On 7/11/2018 at 1:46 AM, mrelwood said:

Chao Yang H-5102 tire

Do you have a link, can’t really find it.

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On 10/25/2018 at 1:59 AM, Roadrunner said:

Do you have a link, can’t really find it.

Try searching for ”Msuper X tire” at Aliexpress.

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