Popular Post meepmeepmayer Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) You tried an ms3 before and it felt like it had better ergonomics? Interesting. Didn't think there would be much of a difference. Is it just the pedals or the (essentially missing) side pads? Something else? Nobody complain about "sloppy" pedals on Gotways! I can carry my ACM by the handle, set it down a bit tilted sideways and with a little push to make one pedal flop down, lift it a little and push it down the other way to open the other pedal, and press the power button, all without moving my hand on the handle (and then get on like normal and ride.) That's <2 seconds with only one hand on the handle to get from zero to going!! I barely touch my pedals these days or have to bend lower than to grab the handle, I start like this, and use the feet to close the pedals (also while holding the handle). It's even a fun skill game, getting the jolting movement right, especially unfolding the second pedal without closing the first. So these "sloppy" GW pedals are a godsend. Please never change! (Unless into something truly better...) Wouldn't want to have to pry open KS-style tight clamps with my hands (or some very awkward foot scratching movement) every time instead. These pedals are a plus! Wheellog changed my settings by just opening the configuration menu, so don't blame the wheel for what third party apps are doing. Maybe it's related to how the API (so to speak, there is nothing official, is there?) works that third party apps f**k up settings? Stick with the official app (old or new/social) to see how everything works out, then you can see what third party apps are doing later. Edited July 12, 2018 by meepmeepmayer 3 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZhel Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) On 7/11/2018 at 2:46 AM, mrelwood said: But there is one severe issue I wasn't able to prepare for. It truly baffled me, and it prevents me from riding for more than a few kilometers at a time. It's the sideways (dihedral?) angle of the pedals The angle of pedals is easy to fix by removing a bit of metal on pillars at the place where opened pedal presses them - with grinding machine or manually with a file (rasp?) and a bit of patience. One owner in my country did that, says it's more comfortable now, his photo below: p.s. ah you've fixed yours already, cool. I'm receiving my MSuperX this saturday, gonna do the same mod. Edited July 12, 2018 by EZhel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted July 12, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 hour ago, EZhel said: The angle of pedals is easy to fix by removing a bit of metal on pillars Yup. I decided to take from the pedals, easier (and cheaper) to get back to original if such need would ever arise. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, mrelwood said: I disliked the extra play in component tolerances, not the mechanism itself. I don’t want something I use several times every day to make extra noise and feel cheap or worn out. But I already fixed it: So far it hasn’t reconnected at app launch, wether if I quit DarknessBot first or if I didn’t even launch DB first. I’m certain it is not DB’s intention to reset anything. But so far if I disable 1st and 2nd alarms in the Gotway app and connect with DB, I get an alarm at 35km/h. I don’t know if I would’ve gotten the tilt-back. Once after connecting to DB (and not even opening the settings) I got the tilt-back at about 10km/h. (What would’ve happened if I had connected at speed?!) DB was not able to change it, had to do it in Gotway. I guess this could be an issue with the Msuper X batch 2 firmware, that it resets settings when any connection is made. I will have to test this on a bench, I have to know if I have the alarm and tilt-back settings I want. Gotway wheels do not accept app commands other than the lights or beeper if the wheel is in motion, so you're safe. I still don't think the wheel is randomly making changes, but it's your app. Edited July 12, 2018 by Marty Backe 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiemoy Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 You need Android to set the setting permanently on GW. At least that was my experience with my Msuper. It didn't work with iOS. You can set it in iOS, but it would never stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketch Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 42 minutes ago, eddiemoy said: You need Android to set the setting permanently on GW. At least that was my experience with my Msuper. It didn't work with iOS. You can set it in iOS, but it would never stay. This is not my experience. I’ve used iOS with all my past Gotway wheels and the setting has held fine. I’ve always used the older app though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUCGUY Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 7 hours ago, mrelwood said: Yup. I decided to take from the pedals, easier (and cheaper) to get back to original if such need would ever arise. DIY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 38 minutes ago, EUC GUY said: DIY how do you like the pedals @EUC GUY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kyle O Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 After two weeks, I just figured out this thing has a built in trolley handle. ? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, Kyle O said: After two weeks, I just figured out this thing has a built in trolley handle. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 22 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: You tried an ms3 before and it felt like it had better ergonomics? Interesting. Yes. I'm starting to think that the dihedral angle is the key. Lowering it on the X has now made it from unridable to quite comfortable. Quote Nobody complain about "sloppy" pedals on Gotways! People have differing standards. I've worked as an audio engineer and I'm an auditory person, so these things matter to me more than others. The point was not necessarily to make them any stiffer. Just to remove the pointless extra play the mechanism has. 15 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Gotway wheels do not accept app commands other than the lights or beeper if the wheel is in motion, so you're safe. Ah, ofcourse. It's interesting how getting a new wheel makes me forget some of the very basics I know about these wheels. Today when starting a more systematical testing, I was not able to reproduce any of the unintentionally changing alerts or tilt-back. So much for hunting down the issue... 11 hours ago, EUC GUY said: DIY My middle name! And I heard that Gotway is planning on changing it's name to "Gotway DIY" as well... Edited July 13, 2018 by mrelwood 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUCGUY Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, stephen said: how do you like the pedals @EUC GUY very much! BUT, they might be causing me the wobbles.. Check it: goto. 3:03 unless the link does it for you. Might be because of the slight tiltback that i can not turn off, or the angle on the pedals. im more leaning towards the last idea. Edited July 12, 2018 by EUC GUY 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted July 13, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 13, 2018 Day three: I Gooped the tire, and while inflating I centered off the small wobble the tire had at speed. The body of the X creaks when I mount. I eventually lowered the dihedral pedal angles down to 10°, and immediately many things just clicked. I think I'm now very close to the V3 pedal angles, as I think I recall some similar feelings: Good height for the leg contact point, a natural stance, almost decent pedal size, overall a stable connection between the wheel and the rider. I could immediately relax and concentrate on other parts of the riding experience. This is what turned the wheel from unrideable to fairly comfortable. I also started prototyping angled risers for the side pads, following @EUC GUYs great invention. I had to reposition them a few times, as I have found that I like to accelerate by staying upright and bending only my knees. Once my legs hit the risers, if I want even more acceleration, only then will I lean forwards. To accelerate the X needs such intent, doing that with straight legs felt unstable over road inconsistencies. Having my knees bent I have a good amount of suspension travel, and leaning to the raised pads I feel secure even on steep and rough dirtways. Photos and a video: Spoiler Ergonomics after mods: The wheel ergonomics now make me feel familiar, stable and secure. The difference is immense. I have no problem accelerating fast and going up steep and rough dirt pathways with some loose gravel. As we all know the motor has endless power, and a suitably soft huge tire keeps the wheel to the ground. It is already a lot better climber than the 16S. Once I finish the sidepads (with rear raisers also), my X will be easily the most comfortable wheel I have tried. I will eventually make pedal extensions, mainly to catch the width of my large EU46 shoe. Speed: As I now have a good contact with the wheel, I already tried some speeds. This wheel wakes up at about 15km/h, and stays awake way beyond what I am capable of. I reached 39km/h, and the wheel felt like a big motorcycle. Stable, smooth and ready to do more. Response: When I first tried the V10F, I was struck by how much effort it needed to accelerate and brake. I didn't have the guts it would've needed for a decent acceleration. The owner felt the same, but later has learned techniques that make him a king on his V10F. KS 16S doesn't have nearly the same power, but it is a mind reader in this regard. It accelerates fast with very little effort. I was hoping that the Msuper X wouldn't be too much of a slouch, but it kind of is. Without the raised side pads I wouldn't get it moving very promptly at all. I will get to directly compare with the V10F next week, which should be interesting, and not least for the V10F owner @UniVehje's input. Tire: I could go on and on about the tire. It is just magnificent! All that have been the hardest hurdles for me, loose gravel, newly laid fine gravel cycleways, cracks on pavement, sharp curbs, roots... all just disappear and my stability is not even affected. My worst crash was when the 16S sank in soft gravel despite the 2.5" tire mod. The 18" x 3" on the X is impervious of all that. I'm afraid of how (over-?)confident I might eventually get. The Chao Yang H-5102 is a good choice for the tire, although as a soft compound it is a bit hard to turn below walking speeds. I'm not sure if DarknessBot shows the measures properly, but I peaked at 100A and above 8000W. 90A and 8000W repeatedly. That sounds very high to me. Have I already lost being on the sane side of riding?! The warning sticker that I finally removed from the top of the wheel says "When riding Gotway, unexpected situation and sudden danger might be encountered". We were warned! Spoiler 7 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Carl Svanfelt Posted July 13, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 13, 2018 It is very interesting what you are writing in this thread. Yes, If the wheel does not feel comfortable, there will be a strong feeling of insecurity. The roads in Kotka are in a bad shape because roads get so much damage to the asphalt during the winter season. So it has been difficult for me to find a driving position that feels 110% safe with my KS16-C. Today I changed the angle of the pedals as you wrote about. In the pic you can see how I did it. I have glued a rubber bite to raise the angle of the pedals by two degrees. Today I have traveled a distance of 40 km (25mi) and the pain in my knees is completely gone. During the journey I did not have any need to change the driving position on the pedal and my feet were kept in the same position also on grounds in very bad condition. So I have rised my speed and got my first tilt back today . Thanks ! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted July 13, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 13, 2018 5 hours ago, dismason said: the pain in my knees is completely gone. That is great to hear! You know, by using rubber you have even implemented a small shock absorber. That might have helped further, as it could be the shocks and vibration that also got to your knees. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Why are pedals even angled? This makes no sense to me. If you (the manufacturer) are worried about ground clearance during a lean, then just make the pedals higher, this having the added bonus of being nearer to the axis and hence put less pressure on the bits of metal handing down from the axis. Angled is just uncomfortable. Perfectly flat seems much better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xoltri Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 2 hours ago, LanghamP said: Why are pedals even angled? This makes no sense to me. If you (the manufacturer) are worried about ground clearance during a lean, then just make the pedals higher, this having the added bonus of being nearer to the axis and hence put less pressure on the bits of metal handing down from the axis. Angled is just uncomfortable. Perfectly flat seems much better. Well, I don't find it uncomfortable, and I'm sure moving the pedals closer to the axle negatively impacts the dynamics of the wheel as you would have less leverage. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted July 14, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 14, 2018 3 hours ago, LanghamP said: Why are pedals even angled? This makes no sense to me. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 8 minutes ago, mrelwood said: Perfect. I love it ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted July 21, 2018 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 21, 2018 Subsequent days (days 4. - 11.): Speed: This wheel is a motorcycle. The stability, especially at speed is something I was missing dearly from the 2.5" 16S. Since the only speed block for me with this wheel is a mental one, I have been trying faster and faster speeds. I have now reached 48km/h, which is a totally insane speed. But the X was even more stable than at 30km/h. Road inconsistencies are taken with only a small and soft thump. In my mind this is the core nature of the Msuper X, traveling with speeds above 30km/h. Usually I travel at around 40km/h. Mileage: I've been unable to measure or even estimate the mileage, and I just now found out about a bug in the GW odometer. If I set the wheel to the ground on it's side, it resets the distance you have traveled during that power cycle. But I have gotten the battery down from 80% to 10% within 53kms (calculated from a map) of steep uphills and borderline mental speeding and accelerating. My subconscious approach to riding distance changed early on with the X. I used to plan all my trips beforehand to make sure I won't pass the available range. I no longer need to do that, and it makes me feel free! Unfair: The Msuper X makes me feel like I'm cheating in most situations. It's all just too easy. All the skill I developed by offroading with the 16S? No need, X'll take care of it. Go to fast? Don't worry, X will be stable and take care. Accelerate too fast on a bump? No problem, X haz powerz. Too high drop from a curb or small cliff? No sweat, 18"x3" of cushion to land on. Go too slow on a very steep uphill? No prob, X will growl but it'll get me up without choking. Soldering work: The legs of the large capacitors were tinned only on the underside. I wouldn't pass that kind of soldering work even in guitar amps, so I added a good amount of solder to the top side of the legs to support them better. I also added solder to several Mosfet legs. None of these were absolute show stoppers, but I now feel a lot more secure about the wheel. Before & after: Fan noise: We had some hotter days (29°C), and the whole body of the X works like the top of an acoustic guitar making the fan quite loud. I separated the fan from the shell with a layer of 2-sided foam tape both between the fan and the support frame and between the frame and the wheel body. Fan noise dropped down to suitable levels. Braking distance: This is something that perhaps all manufacturers should tackle in the 18" and larger wheels. The deceleration achievable by just leaning is quite lame even when the front of my shoes start rising from the pedals. What I have found to be an effective braking is to lean backwards a bit, squeeze the wheel with my feet, and sit down. I built "reverse EUC GUY" side pads to help with this: They catch my legs when leaning back, so I don't have to squeeze the wheel's body with my legs when I sit down. Responsiveness: As seen with the Inmotion V10(F), a wheel that only had extremely hard settings was a chore to get to accelerate and brake. The updated modes brought on by a software update lifted the responsiveness to a whole another level. Now the V10(F) can be adjusted very precisely to accelerate and brake fast and with a lot less effort, just like a 16" wheel should, while still having a solid feel to the pedals. My Msuper X will always require many times the physical effort, since the firmware is still not upgradeable by the user. Were the modes updated for better responsiveness, I would probably purchase an updated control board. The braking distance is that profound a safety issue for me. Charger: Did I rant about the charger yet? The wheel has one of the largest batteries in the business, and is supplied with the slowest (1.5A) charger in the business. I like black humor, but this is just cruel. It takes about 15 hours from 10% to 100%. For a daily rider that is a showstopper. I have a 5A charger on the way. Overall: I am getting happier and happier about the wheel. I definitely think that the build quality and quality control are subpar, and I would not ride this wheel without modifications. But after the mods, especially the dihedral pedal angle, the wheel serves a purpose no other wheel can. It's a mile muncher and an offroad blaster. The X has quite a bit of weight in it's handling, but it just requires more physical effort. 7 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 nice update it sounds just right for my canal paths and off roading thx for this ?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieterGRAMS Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Spent the first day on my MSX yesterday. Merlwood is spot on. I love the pedal angle. You have so much leverage carving thru traffic. It also lets you feel much more planted in turns. I don't think they did it for clearance. The acceleration from a standstill is horrible. Feels like its programmed that way tho. I'd also flash/buy a new board if this was improved down the road 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 1 hour ago, mrelwood said: My Msuper X will always require many times the physical effort, since the firmware is still not upgradeable by the user. Were the modes updated for better responsiveness, I would probably purchase an updated control board. The braking distance is that profound a safety issue for me don't suppliers from anywhere have something to upgrade boards when new firmware is out,, or should it be a free upgrade ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 1 hour ago, dieterGRAMS said: The acceleration from a standstill is horrible. Feels like its programmed that way tho. I'd also flash/buy a new board if this was improved down the road It is physics. Grow 20% taller and double your foot size and it will become quite peppy. You are part of the machine. EUCs favor people with large feet. The bigger the wheel the more you have to do to unbalance it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieterGRAMS Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 4 hours ago, RockyTop said: It is physics. Grow 20% taller and double your foot size and it will become quite peppy. You are part of the machine. EUCs favor people with large feet. The bigger the wheel the more you have to do to unbalance it. You're completely right, but it feels... extra. Iono if any of you are/were car guys, but it feels like big turbo lag. As if the boost doesn't come on till 12mph. I just caught every red light on the way home from the office and I have to do a major skateboard kick at the start else I nearly fall over the front. Switched from Hard to Medium mode, will try soft again in a few but here is what I noticed with that: Yesterday I crossed the Williamsburg bridge on soft. On the flat part of the bridge the bike path has a rhythmic bump and the pedals wanted to dump me forward. Later in the day I came across another rhythmic bumpy stretch and it did the same on medium. Haven't felt that same sensation on hard. Now on my MCM4, I took a trail thru the woods to take a piss one night and the pedals did the same. To the point where I had to bail. Any insight/tips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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