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Firmware V 2.27 so far is passing the test!


Stan Onymous
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Excellent news. Thanks for the report. Did you have problems of excessive overload alerts and tiltback prior to this? I can't remember who had been having those issues but know that you, like me, are a featherweight and less likely to experience them. I'd also like to hear a report from someone like @maltocswho I know had big issues with their wheel. 

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4 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

Excellent news. Thanks for the report. Did you have problems of excessive overload alerts and tiltback prior to this? I can't remember who had been having those issues but know that you, like me, are a featherweight and less likely to experience them. I'd also like to hear a report from someone like @maltocswho I know had big issues with their wheel. 

I've actually just updated my wheel to v.2.2.7 and will join up with @Stan Onymous in about an hour to conquer a local hill that usually gives me trouble. We are experiencing record heats in LA today and even at 9p the temp is expected to be 98F. It will be a good test.

 

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4 minutes ago, maltocs said:

I've actually just updated my wheel to v.2.2.7 and will join up with @Stan Onymous in about an hour to conquer a local hill that usually gives me trouble. We are experiencing record heats in LA today and even at 9p the temp is expected to be 98F. It will be a good test.

 

Awesome. I look forward to hearing the result. Would love for InMotion to have cracked this. 

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Great report guys. Really glad you swapped wheels too. There was some concern that those getting regular overloads may have got a bad batch of hardware but I think you have put that to bed. It seems like this firmware could be a good candidate for release to resolve the current speed limit issue but Inmotion still have some work to do regarding the overload triggers. 

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9 hours ago, Stan Onymous said:

Exactly what I would say. The results on the “Overload” were a little disappointing for me. The overloads happened at 56°, 62°,and 68°C so temperature was not a constant factor, like an overheat situation/ tiltback on the KS14C and older KS18ay. It happened on His V10F and with him riding my V10F and even me riding his V10F. We rode in both Ride Modes, well he did, I stayed in Classic.

Curiously, the power spike or more accurately the power output level in Watts was no more than we or I have gotten on other hills or on full speed over a small pothole, without an overload warning. For instance the last time  @maltocs got the overload on my V10F, it was with only 2018 watts registering as the maximum output and 288.2 watt average output. I still had 67% power left in the battery. Later while going 21.4mph while the speed control was at 21.08 mph without getting any warnings and only 29% while running battery power left, I had reached 2054.2 watts with 170.3 average watts used with no overload or speed warnings.

When I got my overload warning and tiltback I was climbing a very difficult hill, and although I didnt get the screen shot because it was on @maltocs‘s V10F, I have gone up hills with sand as difficult as that hill due to the spinning and incline and not overloaded the V10F with the original firmware. I am theorizing that there is some bottleneck or surge of current that is not callibrated with incline for torque settings. What I am saying in a clumsy way is that this is a much more powerful motor than the V8, or even the KS16 for that matter, so when you go uphill, just keeping yourself perpendicular to the horizon means you are leaning forward at the angle of the hill. If we are leaning even further forward to propell the vehicle up the hill, than something could be off in what the vehicle is sensing is happening if this were on level ground and accellerating.

If you are on level ground the speed warnings under the speed control limit are gone! The speed warnings while going over bumpy terrain are gone. I got 29.7miles with 36% battery level left and was still able to go over 20 mph with no problems. I am taking my V8 and my KS18s back to those hills sometime this weekend and see what gives. Something is not right here with the V10F going uphills. It is a more capable a machine than this.

What was also mysterious about the Overload warning was that as soon as we shut the vehicle down and waited 30 secs at the longest, the machine continued up the hill we attempted to climb from the place it had stopped. So it wasnt like a burned fuse or a melted wire, and it wasnt directly temperature dependent. It wasnt an incline it wouldnt do or couldnt do, and it really wasnt registering more power on the app than it could handle. Harumph, but great work so far @Bobwheel and it will probably be an easy fix . Until then, have patience on the steeper longer hills.

Excellent report! Thanks to all of you!

That damned overload issue is still there and more annoying than ever now that other reported concerns have been resolved with that new firmware! ?

Now to be fair, it is true that in his announcement, @Bobwheel did not say that 2.2.7 will change anything in regards to overload issues.

But now that both  @maltocs and @Stan Onymous have confirmed the issue, we rely on InMotion to bring a quick fix to us!   :w00t2:

Very frustrating to see all other wheels keep going when brand new V10F are failing due to 'overload'... for people not that heavy! 'come on, despite what my wife keeps telling me, 200lb/90Kg are nothing!!!!!!

@

Edited by Fastmike
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22 minutes ago, Fastmike said:

Excellent report! Thanks to all of you!

That damned overload issue is still there and more annoying than ever now that other reported concerns have been resolved with that new firmware! ?

Now to be fair, it is true that in his announcement, @Bobwheel did not say that 2.2.7 will change anything in regards to overload issues.

But now that both  @maltocs and @Stan Onymous have confirmed the issue, we rely on InMotion to bring a quick fix to us!   :w00t2:

Very frustrating to see all other wheels keep going when brand new V10F are failing due to 'overload'... for people not that heavy! 'come on, despite what my wife keeps telling me, 200lb/90Kg are nothing!!!!!!

@

I agree. @maltocs is not exactly heavy for a Westerner and Gotway & KingSong wheels have no difficulty in similar conditions. Really hope this is something that can be overcome. Otherwise the V10F may have to be relegated to flatlanders or lightweight individuals. Granted, that may still be a huge percentage of Inmotion's market. 

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5 hours ago, WARPed1701D said:

Great report guys. Really glad you swapped wheels too. There was some concern that those getting regular overloads may have got a bad batch of hardware but I think you have put that to bed. It seems like this firmware could be a good candidate for release to resolve the current speed limit issue but Inmotion still have some work to do regarding the overload triggers. 

Thanks @WARPed1701D, I am of the belief that it is related to the speed governor and how it interacts with the input coming from the angle of the lean while going up a steep hill. If this is the case, the V10F would sense a much greater need for power and upright balance than the power readings would suggest. There might be too wide a discrepency for the power the vehicle was sensing it needed and the governed power allowed. 

If you think about a 25° hill and a 10° lean, thats a raw lean angle of 35°. If that were done on level ground it would eventually force a speed limit issue, but since the speed is usually less than 10mph on these hills, or less than 20 mph when pushing it, the vehicle must shunt the fault to the ambiguous “Overload” please step off message. I can imagine how insulting that is to the larger carriaged riders. Its a melting pot problem to be sure.? Probably gonna take a lot of editing though.

Edited by Stan Onymous
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18 minutes ago, Stan Onymous said:

Thanks @WARPed1701D, I am of the belief that it is related to the speed governor and how it interacts with the input coming from the angle of the lean while going up a steep hill. If this is the case, the V10F would sense a much greater need for power and upright balance than the power readings would suggest. There might be too wide a discrepency for the power needed and the governed power allowed. 

If you think about a 25° hill and a 10° lean, thats a raw lean angle of 35°. If that were done on level ground it would eventually force a speed limit issue, but since the speed is usually less than 10mph on these hills, or less than 20 mph when pushing it, the vehicle must shunt the fault to the ambiguous “Overload” please step off message. I can imagine how insulting that is to the larger carriaged riders. Its a melting pot problem to be sure.? Probably gonna take a lot of editing though.

Bummer, sorry to see V10F riders having problems. The hill might be 25% not 25 deg, in which case the angle would be ~ 15 deg. I am afraid it's probably not lean angle but weight. Obviously the motor can handle a heavy rider, and I "assume" the control board is robust enough. It looks like there might have to be a whole lot of code to be re-written, and not something that can be patched. I surely hope not. Good Luck. 

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5 minutes ago, Jerome said:

The hill might be 25% not 25 deg, in which case the angle would be ~ 15 deg. I am afraid it's probably not lean angle but weight. Obviously the motor can handle a heavy rider, and I "assume" the control board is robust enough. It looks like there might have to be a whole lot of code to be re-written, and not something that can be patched. I surely hope not. Good Luck. 

It was a hypothetical, but still accurate as I got an Overload while climbing a hill that my V8 has done on a similar hill at the same creeping speed. So it is NOT a weight issue directly, but an issue of how the weight effects the lean sensing in the pedals. I had to brace my knees on the front padding of the V10F, much in the same way I do on my V8 going up steep hills like this, in order to get the lean force of @maltocs in his Overload situations. 

The V10F has a 2KW motor, it is capable of carrying the weight. The power readings from the app suggest it has plenty to spare when it Overloads, so it is more likely than not to be a firmware configuration of how this power is sensed and used. 

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38 minutes ago, Jerome said:

Bummer, sorry to see V10F riders having problems. The hill might be 25% not 25 deg, in which case the angle would be ~ 15 deg. I am afraid it's probably not lean angle but weight. Obviously the motor can handle a heavy rider, and I "assume" the control board is robust enough. It looks like there might have to be a whole lot of code to be re-written, and not something that can be patched. I surely hope not. Good Luck. 

It's a pretty damn steep hill. I actually think 25 degree angle is correct. Here's the hill from the bottom and a google earth profile. I don't know how to work google earth enough to have it give me an actual angle. https://earth.app.goo.gl/Q9GHg

This is the only hill that Bill (150lbs) OVERLOADED on, I (200lbs) however overloaded on many other parts of these mountain trails

Screen Shot 2018-07-05 at 7.36.26 PM (1).jpg

Screen Shot 2018-07-07 at 12.09.54 PM copy.jpg

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2 hours ago, Stan Onymous said:

Many thousands of Thanks to @maltocs for not only showing me this fantastic riding area, but for bringing so much understanding to the problem of Overloads so that it can be fixed! The view, the challenges, and the proximity of that hill to other bikeways is fantastic. 

He is a great rider and though he is new, his skill level and abilities are as good as any experienced rider. This hill was perfect in that there was paved and unpaved riding surfaces and lots of hills so it was easy to make the overload conditions arise for both of us on both vehicles.

What we learned is that once fixed, the rest of the vehicle is a dream! The heat management is fantastic, the speed is constant and easy to set yourself into a safe cruising speed, even if that happens to be between 23-24mph. The stability and feel of the vehicle in sand and on rough roads is amazing. I will still cruise up all the steepest hills in Los Angeles, like Baxter and resevoir, and Micheltorena, but I will wait for the fix before I go off off roading. If you are heavier than 160lbs your chances of an overload become greater depending on the length and steepness of the hill until this is fixed.

Thanks for the vote of confidence! You do Baxter St. (32% grade) Impressive! that's on the top ten in the USA steepest streets. Beware, it was recently changed to ONE WAY because of all the accidents due to the fact google maps kept redirecting unsuspecting commuters that way. Check out #3, Eldred, it's close to where you are also (33% grade). It's longer and slightly steeper but dead ends.

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1 minute ago, maltocs said:

Check out #3, Eldred, it's close to where you are also (33% grade). It's longer and slightly steeper but dead ends.

Oh I will, and I think that street is also surfaced by rectangular pavers which makes climbing that much more difficult.

I updated my thoughts today on the firmware posting since I got that squishy less feeling ride on my V10F this morning. I switched the ride setting to the other Mode, in my case, Comfort, and got the quick responsive ride feel back again. Apparently the ride names switch identities while at rest. And you said there were no such things as firmware Ghosts...?

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3 hours ago, maltocs said:

It's a pretty damn steep hill. I actually think 25 degree angle is correct. Here's the hill from the bottom and a google earth profile. I don't know how to work google earth enough to have it give me an actual angle. https://earth.app.goo.gl/Q9GHg

This is the only hill that Bill (150lbs) OVERLOADED on, I (200lbs) however overloaded on many other parts of these mountain trails

Screen Shot 2018-07-05 at 7.36.26 PM (1).jpg

Screen Shot 2018-07-07 at 12.09.54 PM copy.jpg

You have to use the desktop version of Google Earth. Then you can get the elevation profile:

Pasadena Slope

 

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50 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

You have to use the desktop version of Google Earth. Then you can get the elevation profile:

Pasadena Slope

 

Cool! I knew it was somewhere. Thanks. This just opened up a whole new world of route profiling for me.

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Lol, no I mean that the new firmware has remnant elements of the old firmware that are not relavent but are still somehow activated since I imagine some of the code is simply copied and pasted for certain actions.

Nicotine, my vape stick last night, is a cerebral cortex stimulator so perhaps you are correct . Lol?

Edited by Stan Onymous
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2 hours ago, maltocs said:

I still dunno about that. That's not the way flashing firmware works. There are no remnants.

That's not really true.  There are lots of ways you can get left overs.  It just depends on how they company does the flash. flash.   There are lots of ways for a software to flash firmware.   It doesn't have to be a bit for bit copy.

That said, this would still be surprising to me.

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Thanks  @that0n3guy for the info on flashing, and @maltocs as much as I wanted to go there this morning, I had chores. That is my hiking stance though. I am thinking of a ride there tomorrow with the V8 and the KS18s. I will let you know, so you can try them both out as well.

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2 hours ago, that0n3guy said:

That's not really true.  There are lots of ways you can get left overs.  It just depends on how they company does the flash. flash.   There are lots of ways for a software to flash firmware.   It doesn't have to be a bit for bit copy.

That said, this would still be surprising to me.

i can totally see NEW firmware being some slight reprogramming of the original firmware and yes, remnants or ghosts that way is possible, but im gonna just blame poor quality control, but then again, that's why we are here testing it so they can do a better release! But without some sort of diagnostic "nerd mode" where we see exactly why things are happening, I'm not sure how much help we are doing just telling them what we feel about the firmware. OVERLOAD can mean so many things and we are just guessing. OVERHEAT? OVER POWER? SUSTAINED over power? That kinda info would help. after all, we are not manually submitting logs. Although I'm not sure what EULA we all signed, it's probably sending all the logs to include 24h GPS data over to China as we speak. Hmmm, did I allow permissions for the mic and camera too???

@Stan Onymous, PM me with what time you plan to go. I'm a family man, my weekends are filled with kids birthday parties. But I can squeeze out an hour or two here and there. 

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Thanks for testing, guys. Good that you switched the wheels. Seems to confirm it’s about weight and not hardware defect. 

As the tiltback is not a problem for me, I will be very satisfied with the wheel once this fixed firmware comes available. I hope I can still use own recording for the alarm. 

I was just riding again and felt really good with riding mode A. I like that InMotion gives so many options. We can easily change so many things that affect the feel. There is no right or better settings, it’s just all matters of taste. The only more difficult thing to change is the tire pressure. I’ve now been riding rough roads with less than 2.8 bars and it just glides over pumbs and gravel. 

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