Jump to content
esaj

!!! Firmware or hardware problems with KS18L, wheels locking up while trolleying

Recommended Posts

10 hours ago, rolauk said:

Yes, I turned bluetooth off in the app so that I would not have to listen to the woman speaking in chineese, telling me to slow down (I think). That womans voice audio appeared after that (I think). Perhaps that why I cant find it as an audio source anymore either? Guess so. But - still no luck connecting to it. Weird if it is only the app, because I had no problem finding and connecting to it before yesterday. It was unstable, yes - but I could just connect again. Now, I only see the wheel one of every ten time I test - and only in the Darknessbot app. I managed to connect - got two beeps - but then it disconnected again, and I could not connect again. Aaargh. Luckilly I did switch from the 10km/h speed setting I was testing at first. 

I will give it another try with a friends android phone and see if that works, later. 

Anybody knows how to get the male voice in english instead of chineese lady - for the speed alerts? If possible at all? Did not see any settings for this while the app was working. The newest app for IOS is unusable for me as I dont speak chineese. I could not get that to connect either, but do not know what to press either. 

Also tried reinstalling the kingsong-new app - but still same, same. 

Cant say that I am happy with this purchase. I started with Ninebot One E+, and this is my fifth wheel. Never spent this much money on a wheel before, and never had this many issues either. But - my seller will have to fix this or give me my money back. 

For the Bluetooth Problems, Seba in the post explained why there are 2 different Voices.

It seams you have set the "Voice to OFF"...then you only have Beep Speed Alarms.

If Voice is set to ON, the 3rd alarm is Man english voice "Please decellerate". Normaly they are NOchinese Voices coming up,  Only the women "Blatuut is off", when the Wheel is not able to connect BLE.

Where is your Wheel bought, please?

 

Also you seam to have put off Bluetooth Music in the app, thats probably  why you are not greated with the Man Voice anymore. 

Sometimes it is hard to connect to BLE (the Bluetooth app ...especially on some iPhone-IOS versions!!! (And thats btw not KS fault...)

What you can do: Load down a "Bluetooth scanner" for free in the app store….

Try to find the Wheel with this Scanner....might also be difficult...but dont give up. As soon as the Scanner finds the Wheel....directly start the KS app and then it should also find the Wheel!!!

After that initial Connection it should then work out. I also highly recommended to update IOS to latest version, i also had severe Problems with my IOS  iPhone x to to connect to KS!

Also important: Check the Rights of the app, please.

 

For the new app(blue one): Yes, does not set to english...if you set your phone to english as a Workaround, the new app works ok.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok - thank you for your tips. :)

I tried that app yesterday by the way, I read thru that other post that was linked to me and where you mentioned it. Could not find it, but I will try again, but first of all perhaps with an android phone. 

I know that none of the EUC apps, for any brand - is perfect. I sometimes struggle with the other wheels as well, that means - it disconnects. But never as difficult as this has become now. It did work fine before, so it is a little strange. I will try some more and see with my phone also. Btw, yes IOS is updated to latest version. 

I did not know that the new KingSong app would work if I set my phone to english. I see that it does - great! I will give it a test when I leave work. :)

The wheel is bought in Norway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have anyone changed the motherboard on this wheel - and still had the same problems afterwards (lockup or shaking)? I think I read that one of you had the motherboard changed, and no problems after? I also think I have read that KingSong does not have any sollution at the moment? Perhaps I do not remember correctly. 

My seller wants me to send the wheel back for motherboard replacement, but I am not sure it will fix it. As mentioned in a previous post, the wheel seems to work just fine (except problem connecting with app at the moment - and shaking when pushing indoors (sometimes)). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't this bluetooth stuff deserve it's own thread? I have bluetooth issues on my 16s but this is the 18L trolleying thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, rolauk said:

Have anyone changed the motherboard on this wheel - and still had the same problems afterwards (lockup or shaking)? I think I read that one of you had the motherboard changed, and no problems after? I also think I have read that KingSong does not have any sollution at the moment? Perhaps I do not remember correctly. 

My seller wants me to send the wheel back for motherboard replacement, but I am not sure it will fix it. As mentioned in a previous post, the wheel seems to work just fine (except problem connecting with app at the moment - and shaking when pushing indoors (sometimes)). 

To my Knowledge the newest Motherboard type gets rid of the Problem!

Where have you bought the Wheel, if i am allowed to ask?

In the end it is as you said: Even with the Problem occuring (when trolleying it with socks through the Living room) worldwide is not ONE incidents known where this fault has happend while riding. It is only occuring when the trolley is out, while trolleying. Other than that even the wheels that had the shaking, are working fine. (App Problems should be fixable!)

I had the shake Problem on my 18L only one time in 950km riding, while trolleying through a Supermarket. The shaking is Firmware stopped after latest 10seconds and after that the Wheel is Ready for riding again.

I absoluty know that this all is anything other than nice, WHEN someone has this Problem occuring on his Wheel, especiall if it is brandnew, in contrary: It is disappointing as hell.

Nontheless ME personal, i still feel more secure and confident as on other wheels i own...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Smoother - yes there is another thread, I just did not know about it at the time. Will try to keep bluetooth things in there. :)  -> Bluetooth issues

@US69 I bought the wheel in Norway, got the XL from their first delivery earlier this month. It would be nice to ship it back and have the motherboard replaced, but only if it fixes the issue. Otherwise the wheel feels great, and I would like to keep it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, rolauk said:

I bought the wheel in Norway, got the XL from their first delivery earlier this month. It would be nice to ship it back and have the motherboard replaced, but only if it fixes the issue. Otherwise the wheel feels great, and I would like to keep it. 

My PERSONAL opinion and what i would do:

I would watch the Wheel while using it day to day and decide About changing Motherboard from this daily use behaviour. 

Perhaps i real life Scenario (not trolleying on socks in the Living room) it doesn't shake at all anymore. Otherwise, if even on daily use this occures more than once, Change the Motherboard.

As said, thats my personal take on it. But I also understand any Frustration and other decisions, absolutly….

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yesterday my 18L has been shaking again, for the third time (after the second time I was trolleing it exclusively/only while it was switched off [for four months?], even for short distances—while still waiting for the solutions from KingSong). This time I had my hands busy and was in a hurry, and could not properly push it in supermarket, so I switched it on. After a minute it bigan alternate between tilted-back position and normal position, several times. It was in the isles with water, juices etc, so no electronic equipment there. The wheel was like slowly lolling on the waves. Then it began the dreaded shake. I had to drop everything, and try to switch it off, being the center of attention. After this I tried to switch the wheel on again, and i began beeping every two-three seconds. I switched it off again, left some of the purchases on the shelves and rode home without problems.

When will it finally be resolved? :-/ It is such a nuisance, I have a wheel for half a year now, and I still cannot push it without switching it off (afraid of the shakes). My handles were already wonky/damaged from the previous violent shakes and I have to replace it. Also it is cumbersome to push it holding other things in hands and triyng to turn, go over bumps etc.

Frustration, here I come.

On the other note, would it be somehow helpful for the engineers if I try to record the screen with electricity info in KingSong app, so that it shows what happens with the battery and motor during the shake? Or the communication with the app breaks while the wheel goes shakerado?

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, everyone, this is my first post!  I've been lurking for a couple of weeks while I wait for my very first EUC to arrive.  The best way to scratch the itch while I wait is to watch YouTube videos of ridinging and learning, and to read forum threads here!  Since what I ordered is a KS-18XL (yes, I know, not really a recommended beginner wheel, but it's the one I will learn and eventually commute on), I've been following the KingSong threads closely, including this one about the "static charge" problem in the 18L and 18XL.  The reason I'm chiming in, without even having my EUC yet, is to ask whether anyone has considered/tried dissipating these presumed static build-ups.  One of my hobbies involves flying small airplanes, and these can also build up significant static charges, which interfere with communications and avionics.  Some plane models have a bad enough problem that they have insulated metallic strips attached to the trailing edges of control surfaces (ailerons, elevator) called "static wicks," also known as static dischargers (see the Wikipedia article on the concept).  I've also seen static wicks, sometimes, on ground vehicles, usually on mud flaps of some larger trucks, and a quick online search shows "antistatic straps" sold for attachment to cars.  I'm wondering if this concept could somehow be applied to an EUC, perhaps by attaching such a device to the rear of the case, or the mudflap, or similar? Just wondering.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, svenomous said:

Since what I ordered is a KS-18XL (yes, I know, not really a recommended beginner wheel, but it's the one I will learn and eventually commute on)

No problem there, you made a great decision. I too, have bought the 18L, without prior experience. You will learn the basics in no time :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/28/2019 at 4:31 PM, svenomous said:

metallic strips attached to the trailing edges of control surfaces (ailerons, elevator) called "static wicks," also known as static dischargers

I come from an aerospace industry. So any trailing edges of an aircraft will have these static wicks, but this will not work on a wheel that we are trolleying at walking  (about 3.1 miles per hour) speeds. In order for the static wicks to work you need to have a constant high speed of air flow to dissipate the ESD (electric static discharge).

 

On 3/28/2019 at 4:31 PM, svenomous said:

antistatic straps" sold for attachment to cars

If you have traveled to Japan, you will see these in mostly on all cars (car metal via antistatic straps to street surface contact), in theory to dissipate ESD from the car especially if you have fabric seats. I have read online that these straps absolutely don't work. I have been to Japan many times and not once have I've been shocked exiting a vehicle, I strongly believe they do work!.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's fascinating (to me) is that static builds up (to the point of interfering with the mainboard's internal signaling) while trolleying, but not while riding.  The potential for static should be even higher while the thing is zipping around at high speed, but there seems to be something special about trolleying that causes the build-up.  Functionally, the wheel is self-balancing in exactly the same way, with the only difference being an interaction with the hand and body connected to the trolley handle.  So, being connected to the ground via a rubber tire is fine, but being connected via a human body and whatever footwear is being worn creates a special static-building conduit.  Hmm.  Maybe we should apply static straps to the people instead, or make them walk in special insulated boots? I'm joking of course.  The other difference while trolleying is of course speed, so maybe higher speed provides a discharge outlet similar to how static wicks in airplanes provide a discharge outlet via airflow (thanks Dave for explaining).

Ultimately it seems to me that a firmware fix alone cannot truly fix this issue.  Firmware can't magically do away with static build-up.  It might be able to mitigate the effects by changing sensor (e.g. gryro/accelerometer) sensitivity or performing increased self-diagnostics during slow-speed movement, but if this is really a static electricity issue, it's physical and therefore inherent to the current mainboard/case/trolley design.  The fix might be as simple as adding insulating washers or plastic screws in a strategic place, or adding a grounding strap somewhere for the mainboard to discharge to the case, but it seems that it will come down to a physical fix, not a software fix...or these two wheels will simply always be known as "finnicky while trolleying, and best trolleyed while switched off."

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, svenomous said:

The fix might be as simple as adding insulating washers or plastic screws in a strategic place

I do hope they will come with the solution soon. It is beyond frustrating now.

 

2 hours ago, svenomous said:

be known as "finnicky while trolleying, and best trolleyed while switched off."

For me, it is known as "always trolleyed while switched off" :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/31/2019 at 8:11 AM, svenomous said:

What's fascinating (to me) is that static builds up (to the point of interfering with the mainboard's internal signaling) while trolleying, but not while riding.  The potential for static should be even higher while the thing is zipping around at high speed, but there seems to be something special about trolleying that causes the build-up.  Functionally, the wheel is self-balancing in exactly the same way, with the only difference being an interaction with the hand and body connected to the trolley handle.  So, being connected to the ground via a rubber tire is fine, but being connected via a human body and whatever footwear is being worn creates a special static-building conduit.  Hmm.  Maybe we should apply static straps to the people instead, or make them walk in special insulated boots? I'm joking of course.  The other difference while trolleying is of course speed, so maybe higher speed provides a discharge outlet similar to how static wicks in airplanes provide a discharge outlet via airflow (thanks Dave for explaining).

Ultimately it seems to me that a firmware fix alone cannot truly fix this issue.  Firmware can't magically do away with static build-up.  It might be able to mitigate the effects by changing sensor (e.g. gryro/accelerometer) sensitivity or performing increased self-diagnostics during slow-speed movement, but if this is really a static electricity issue, it's physical and therefore inherent to the current mainboard/case/trolley design.  The fix might be as simple as adding insulating washers or plastic screws in a strategic place, or adding a grounding strap somewhere for the mainboard to discharge to the case, but it seems that it will come down to a physical fix, not a software fix...or these two wheels will simply always be known as "finnicky while trolleying, and best trolleyed while switched off."

Trolley is made from alu and conductive so it make sens that when you have a big antenna with handle that is isolated form your hand, you get more ESD. Also when riding there is a electromagnetic field that is probably having a side effect of protecting from ESD the electronics...  All that is only a theory and usually it's quite complicated to fully understand what is going on. In my company we usually put electronic equipment inside a anechoic chamber and send to it electromagnetic impulses to see how it reacts... This is also mandatory to  get CE label to it and to be able to send it on European market... And yes, usually it can never be fully fixed with software... You need to properly protect all the electronics.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had my new wheel shipped back to the supplier and they got a new motherboard from KingSong that now is installed. I have the wheel back and I am happy to say that it works just fine now. Tried moving it around inside as well, just to see if it still starts to shake - but nothing so far. I really hope there will be no more issues. I am not sure if this motherboard is any different from the other ones or if this one is just working as it should (since a lot of people have had no issues at all). Really sad that people should have this kind of issue on a very expensive wheel..

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, rolauk said:

I had my new wheel shipped back to the supplier and they got a new motherboard from KingSong that now is installed. I have the wheel back and I am happy to say that it works just fine now. Tried moving it around inside as well, just to see if it still starts to shake - but nothing so far. I really hope there will be no more issues. I am not sure if this motherboard is any different from the other ones or if this one is just working as it should (since a lot of people have had no issues at all). Really sad that people should have this kind of issue on a very expensive wheel..

FW v1.12 is an update that KS says addresses the vibration issue. So I hope that it is smooth sailing for from here on out. 😉👍

Edited by Lutalo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Ok? I read about that but also that it did not work? I dont know - if it fixes the issue - then perfect! :) Mine had issues with bluetooth as well, but that works "ok" also now. However, I can not change speed settings with Darknessbot for IOS anymore. And my new KingSong app says "The veichle is binded with other user, need to be unbinded and then apply for decode" when I enter the speed settings with the app. Luckilly it is set at 40km/h so I might not need to bother about it. 

Edited by rolauk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi.

Just ordered a KS18L

are these problems now solved?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Dariusz Baha said:

Hi.

Just ordered a KS18L

are these problems now solved?

The locking and shaking problems doesn't apply to all the KS-18L/XL. I think only minority of wheels are affected. At least my wheels are not affected, or to say better, till now I had no such problems with my L and XL. Moreover, I completely removed "antistatic" foil from my XL. Personally, I don't believe that the problems are caused by static electricity.

Big chances are that your won't be affected also, and the only problem will be with lift sensor, but this is quite easy to solve. Anyway it's a great wheel and I love it!

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 4/13/2019 at 9:35 PM, Seba said:

Moreover, I completely removed "antistatic" foil from my XL.

Do you have a photo of this foil?

Where is it located ?

Edited by cbgti

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/7/2019 at 10:15 AM, rolauk said:

Ok? I read about that but also that it did not work? I dont know - if it fixes the issue - then perfect! :) Mine had issues with bluetooth as well, but that works "ok" also now.

This is according to a manufacturer post on FB about the v1.12 upgrade. The post, listing the benefits of the v1.12 upgrade mentioned vibration as one of the fixes. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, cbgti said:

Do you have a photo of this foil?

Where is it located ?

It was sticked by double-sided adhesive tape to the side covers an top cover.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×