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!!! Firmware or hardware problems with KS18L, wheels locking up while trolleying


esaj

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I get what your saying, i have not been involved in any Firmwares and i havent studied the architecture of how the wheels are managed, but in PLC terms you are asking if they any of the tree following, INT, DINT, or REAL types of readings, if it would be an simple integrer you would have only space for values -32768 to 32767, so here if it would max out you say it might be freezing the runtime.
While it has some idea to it i dont think a programmer would overlook such a bug, im assuming when you calibrate the wheel you are creating a set point for the "resting value" and this value is probably different on many wheels.

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2 hours ago, Rob Valley said:

I get what your saying, i have not been involved in any Firmwares and i havent studied the architecture of how the wheels are managed, but in PLC terms you are asking if they any of the tree following, INT, DINT, or REAL types of readings, if it would be an simple integrer you would have only space for values -32768 to 32767, so here if it would max out you say it might be freezing the runtime.
While it has some idea to it i dont think a programmer would overlook such a bug, im assuming when you calibrate the wheel you are creating a set point for the "resting value" and this value is probably different on many wheels.

I'm agree that it's easy to manage, and that any programmer should check that kind of things. I'm just trying to give an opinion that will maybe help KS investigating... I have this feeling that it's a trolley sensor issue... that if they dig a little bit more and stress it a little bit more they will be able to reproduce the lock and make a fix... I don't now in which language it was developed and how, but for example in C it's quite easy to reserve a space in memory for some data and if the data is a little bit longer that what you reserve it will just overwrite some memory space... Then immediately, or later, when something in the programme will need data from this overwrited memory cells, it will got wrong values and lead to a firmware crash, etc... 

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I have come to realize that over the past couple of weeks (without lock up!) I am very consciously and deliberately trying to avoid the lock up issue again. Even with the special FW I have been given I find myself turning off unit before I lift it to go up stairs (lift is disabled too). And sometimes, when I seriously do not want to encounter a lock up while trollying, I will turn unit off and carry it somewhere.

Not sure if I really want to change my habits or just stick with what is working.

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13 hours ago, Circuitmage said:

I have come to realize that over the past couple of weeks (without lock up!) I am very consciously and deliberately trying to avoid the lock up issue again. Even with the special FW I have been given I find myself turning off unit before I lift it to go up stairs (lift is disabled too). And sometimes, when I seriously do not want to encounter a lock up while trollying, I will turn unit off and carry it somewhere.

Not sure if I really want to change my habits or just stick with what is working.

At first I did as you did, but when the 1.10 update was published, I thought it was not a good solution - avoiding the problem and dragging it over time. If it turns out that my wheel is affected, I prefer so the trolley lock will happen as soon as possible, as long as my warranty is still active. So I calibrated the lift sensor and turned it on. I also started to trolley and lift every time it's convenient to me. 

Now I have traveled over 800 kilometers and still no problems at all. As a HW & SW developer I am more and more convinced that this is a hardware problem that affects some of the first batch controller boards.

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Me too stick with 1.07.... and lift sensor disabled....:facepalm:

Can't permitt to discover if my unit is affected or not... due if yes, didn't want and either be able to disassemble in order to disconnect the batteries...:rolleyes:

Simply, leave it locked and warm waiting for an explosion....:facepalm:

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Hello

I believe my wheel is also concerned ks18l

I think my wheel does not support the supermarches I took out the trolley i walk 10meters and blocked

so it goes very hot befor i cut off the batterie 30 minutes later

so my problem was now on the app i have a red triangle 

and when i drive the wheel my phone gives me full off vibration

(excuse my english

 

72BAA9C7-8212-4F30-8E3B-E13AFAE4A180.png

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41 minutes ago, Shad0z said:

Ks18L issues just keeps on piling up :cry2:

Until the investigation has found the real cause behind this. But then again I my view it still seem like relative few reporting this.

Of course I don't know fact numbers of reports incomming or actual sales. But still.

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maby its time for @US69 to invite the KS engineers to germany, tell them to bring a few boards and go shopping! i like the hypotesis about the magnet readers, maby eu/rus has a some tech in them that china does not.. would be why it seams to be localized problems.

anyways, ill do my grocery shopping the old fashion way for now thank you very much.

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Michael Rada in the youtube clip got live lock issue without  any magnetic readers nearby .....:rolleyes: :facepalm: :cry2:

Edited by zugu
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18 minutes ago, zugu said:

Robert Rada in the youtube clip got live lock issue without  any magnetic readers nearby .....:rolleyes: :facepalm: :cry2:

it looked to me like it did not balance, he wiggled it back and forth, and with lock as i understand, the wheel is still balancing but you are not able to push it forwards/backwards, so in this robert rada video, all i could see was the trolley lock not disengaging.

Edited by Rob Valley
clarification
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7 hours ago, Shad0z said:

Ks18L issues just keeps on piling up :cry2:

I don't see any new issues piling up. I see some new reports/cases of the same well known, but apparently yet unsolved issue regarding wheel lockups while trolleying.

Aside from the well known issues of the trolley handle soft lock mechanism (minor) and the wheel freeze while trolleying (major), I actually haven't at all heard of any other/new issues with the 18L. 

Since the issue seems to impact first batch wheels some new cases of the same old issues may continue to be reported.

Firmware corrections can be more proactive, but if the issue is hardware related, it is harder to attack it from the front. Short of a total recall, it difficult for dealers to respond preventively to the issue. They will most likely have to deal with each case as it is reported after the customer's wheel has already locked.

If anyone thinks their wheel might be effected they should trolley the living shit out of it to see if it happens. If it doesn't your wheel isn't effected. If it does then you have identified the problem early enough to get an repair and enjoy many more years of fun

 

Edited by Lutalo
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The sad things about EUC manufacturers are they policy about releases. New products usually released in late spring or even in early summer, ruining whole summer due to fixing up first batches bugs. EUC manufacturers should consider releasing the new products in fall, right before the Christmas shopping season, to fix all issues before the new warm season started, IMHO.

 

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1 hour ago, WaveCut said:

The sad things about EUC manufacturers are they policy about releases. New products usually released in late spring or even in early summer, ruining whole summer due to fixing up first batches bugs. EUC manufacturers should consider releasing the new products in fall, right before the Christmas shopping season, to fix all issues before the new warm season started, IMHO.

 

Maybe, but second and third batch releases coincide better with the holiday season and the general spike in sales of electronic goods. Second and third batches have usually worked out the glitches and kinks that plagued the first batch.

Many types of industries release new products in spring because summer sales and fall sales are good; spiking during the holiday season; November-December.

The consumer psychology of Early adopting consumers doesn't necessarily operate on the holiday schedule; it operates on an enthusiasts cycle (when new product is released). They derive great pleasure from being first, believe that being first is special and are not deterred by the possibility of the product being plagued with glitches.

Given that EUC manufacturers produce a lower volume (for now), specialty, luxury, relatively new to market items their market is comprised significantly of the early adopter crowd. As the products become more mainstream the buyer type will shift and so will the pricing and sales trends.

Manufacturers align their productivity schedules with general sales trends in their industry sectors. EUC manufacturers would operate on the same principal.

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On 8/24/2018 at 10:26 AM, WaveCut said:

To be honest, lift sensor seems to deal nothing with locking up. The most realistic version is poorly soldered controller components (and this should be warranty covered issue, as the controller is a core component and the failure IS significant).

Yeah, it looks like a hardware issue in the moment, but as this still isnt hundert percent confirmed i didnt post any updates until now!

Sure this is covered by warranty! No question about that!

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1 hour ago, TomOnWheels said:

Ok so today i was shopping and trolleyinng my KS around. And after 5 minutes is start to shake like a crazy ! I had to press power button to stop/start the wheel. Then after 5 minutes of trolleying I got it lock ! And imagine I was on holidays... No screwdriver on me, and the wheel was starting to become very hot... I had to buy one, dismount the wheel in the middle of the street, then disconnect/reconnect the battery... Very enjoying... @tinawong stop responding, @US69 maybe you can push that to KS ? I'm the guy that already got this lock before, changed the board and sent the faulty one to KS China for investigations... Still nothing and that happening again... I'm seriously disapointed... How the hell a serious company can't investigate properly this issue ? There is even a video of it the lock happening... Do you KS realize that this is something about trust ? I was always supporting KS and taking defense of it despite hours spent in dismounting, adjusting, changing board, etc... This is just crazy. I'm seriously thinking to move to another brand and just stop waisting my time and money. :-(

Wow, maybe it is a hardware issue. Maybe try and reinstall the trolley sensors so that everything is flush and not too tight? You shouldn't have to do it in the first place, but at this point, you're the best at recreating the issue - maybe you can solve it.

Edited by joku
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@TomOnWheels

Thanks for report ...:rolleyes:

PlHelp. ..... help.. due if it happens to me I am completely unable to disassemble the wheel to disconnect the batteries. ..:rolleyes:

Please... can you test if the wheel locks while trolleying either if the lift sensor is disabled by the app??

I know this way we could loose one important selling point function, but can let me live safe and trust with my new wheel. ...:(

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10 hours ago, TomOnWheels said:

Ok so today i was shopping and trolleyinng my KS around. And after 5 minutes is start to shake like a crazy ! I had to press power button to stop/start the wheel. Then after 5 minutes of trolleying I got it lock ! And imagine I was on holidays... No screwdriver on me, and the wheel was starting to become very hot... I had to buy one, dismount the wheel in the middle of the street, then disconnect/reconnect the battery... Very enjoying... @tinawong stop responding, @US69 maybe you can push that to KS ? I'm the guy that already got this lock before, changed the board and sent the faulty one to KS China for investigations... Still nothing and that happening again... I'm seriously disapointed... How the hell a serious company can't investigate properly this issue ? There is even a video of it the lock happening... Do you KS realize that this is something about trust ? I was always supporting KS and taking defense of it despite hours spent in dismounting, adjusting, changing board, etc... This is just crazy. I'm seriously thinking to move to another brand and just stop waisting my time and money. :-(

2 boards in a row, it stinks... and no longer sounds like a random issue.

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1 hour ago, em1barns said:

2 boards in a row, it stinks... and no longer sounds like a random issue.

Either that, or the issue is not with the board. As @joku mentioned, it could be the way the sensors are connected.  Could be finicky.  If they are not attached just right, they could cause an intermittent problem.

Edited by squirt
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11 hours ago, joku said:

Wow, maybe it is a hardware issue. Maybe try and reinstall the trolley sensors so that everything is flush and not too tight? You shouldn't have to do it in the first place, but at this point, you're the best at recreating the issue - maybe you can solve it.

Thanks for suggestions @joku! Already did... I setup properly both sensors as at first screws was too tight.Also I was recalibrating every week... And to be honest it was working like a charm for almost 2 month after the first lock... I walk in trolley mode for Kms and all was good... What a shame that this happens again and just few minutes after the ride.

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3 hours ago, zugu said:

@TomOnWheels

Thanks for report ...:rolleyes:

PlHelp. ..... help.. due if it happens to me I am completely unable to disassemble the wheel to disconnect the batteries. ..:rolleyes:

Please... can you test if the wheel locks while trolleying either if the lift sensor is disabled by the app??

I know this way we could loose one important selling point function, but can let me live safe and trust with my new wheel. ...:(

Someone reported already that disabling the sensors in app has no effect on lock... it's just a software switch and do not disable signals sent by sensors to firmware. We are not even sure if this is really a sensors issue...

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