!!! Firmware or hardware problems with KS18L, wheels locking up while trolleying

[US69]

51 minutes ago, ricqvo said:

Thank you! I bought the wheel for commuting everyday to school... Today I rode exactly the way to school and back... So around 25km in total... 

And I cant get the right pressure too... The wheel is still quick turning left and right at high speeds, wich is dangerous and feels deffinetly not nice... Ive tryed 3.2bar, 2 bar, 2.5 bar... Cant figure it out..

Btw on the first charge the second day I got this wheel I made 45km trip, high speeds, quite hilly asphalt road, started with 85%, came back with 25%... So that was a pretty nice performance... Avarage speed around 28kmph...

Hey,

as i understood that it IS  your very first EUC...and you even just jumped onto it and could ride it without any learning time?

If so....just give yourself some more time! Hurting of any bones will go away...high speed wobbles will go away...is just a matter of time!

 

You have allready been extremely lucky that you didn’t need a longer learing time to drive at all!!!

 

Really, just dont go to fast ....and take your time! as i have said in a thread before...there will be days coming when you don’t have to squeeze the wheel AT ALL  between your feet! When you can do easy „idling“ without touching the shell structure....

 

but thats just needs some time :-)

Edited August 5, 2018 by US69

[esaj]

5 hours ago, Stan Onymous said:

BTW I have been stuck in rain showers on my V10F twice, the wheel was drenched, but no issues, so I wonder how much rain one has to ride in for it to fail or any of these wheels for that matter. IP54 only means that they went through the process to get it rated once, not that your production model will be tested. So the quality will vary even with testing marked on the wheel. That wheel was never tested, so you are still trusting the company.

About the IP-ratings, there are standardized tests for these, but no one is actually monitoring whether they're actually done. Any manufacturer can claim whatever IP-rating they want (think back to 2015, pretty much ALL the manufacturers were claiming something like IP56, but you could tell just by opening the wheel that it was nowhere near that), no "official" 3rd party will check, unless the manufacturer pays for them to test and certify it.

[winter]

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by nte

[Stan Onymous]

19 minutes ago, nte said:

 I got my 18L this week and the first thing I tried to do was accelerate fast like I can on my S1. This lead to bad wobbles at around 16-17mph. I was really trying hard to accelerate and this extra muscle tension was causing severe wobbles. I switched from Experienced mode to Learning mode and that made it a lot easier to accelerate with less wobbles.

Yeah, that is a big jump in size. With this comes a difference in acceleration feel and pedal attenuation.

Instead of leaning out over the wheel too far, I will try to stomp the front of one of my feet hard into the front of rhe pedal, keeping upright. It takes a little lean to get started, but by pressing hard while standing up straight, I have found that the wobbles go away. For me the wobbles happen when I am either too far out infront or behind, while going downhills. Pretend you are putting out a joint in front of the Concert security with your toes. 

Learning how to attenuate the pedals better while standing up straight will serve you best on the larger wheels. Especially since its harder to throw them around with our feet due to their weight and centrifugal force.

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, esaj said:

but you could tell just by opening the wheel that it was nowhere near that), no "official" 3rd party will check, unless the manufacturer pays for them to test and certify it.

That sounds like a great job for you. Members would trust your quality assurance seal of approval! Even if manufacturers paid a third party I would worry about their QC tests and certification process.

 

 

 

[esaj]

 

[sb3en]

8 hours ago, US69 said:

some of my seller contact, for example Germany or Thailand or some others....did NOT experience it at all and didnt have even One faulty wheeland i even haf to explain them what might be the problem!

Hmm, does Trump have something to do with this ???

[kasenutty]

12 packs of soda are $5.50 now too. 

[em1barns]

22 hours ago, US69 said:

I love to have constructic discussion, but i can answer it as cynical as you:

Perhaps you should have stayed on the high power Ninebots with their also very souvereign firmware updates on the One E, or should have bought a rock solid v10f, at least if you are not more than 80—85kg....as it always overheat(and btw cant ride at all in the rain in the moment anymore) Or perhaps again choosing a Gotway, which are truly known for making the best most solid shells, which you can at least open ONE time, before all the wooden screws fail and you have to secure the shell with gaffer tape, as i have to do this weekend when i upgraded my Monster from 1600wh to 2000wh. Its now my „gaffer“ EUC and now everyone can clearly see the beauty of its nice quality hardware! 

And yes, because Ks still has the best trolley option on all wheels available outside, which yes, could sure  have been done better when they would have done it shorter, which then would have the bigger people bashing again that its to short!

My conclusion is now also that as next thing what will fail is there board because of some more music options...or wait.....maybe even because of using a third party app your wheel may fail? Who knows???

Cynic Mode Off.

Have a nice one! :-) i will now also enjoy my free Sunday!!!

So what you are tyring to say is that I should be happy about KS flaws because other manufacturers also have flaws, and sometimes maybe worst ones?

Is there any other wheel out there that one may need to quickly open and disconnect batteries for fear it may catch on fire?

[Unventor]

12 hours ago, nte said:

Like you, I learned on a 14" wheel and have been riding my modified S1 for 8 months. On my S1 I can maintain 16-17mph(26-27kmh) on bad roads, dodge obstacles and make transitions onto side walks.

 I got my 18L this week and the first thing I tried to do was accelerate fast like I can on my S1. This lead to bad wobbles at around 16-17mph. I was really trying hard to accelerate and this extra muscle tension was causing severe wobbles. I switched from Experienced mode to Learning mode and that made it a lot easier to accelerate with less wobbles.

This wheel is so much bigger and heavier then my S1, its going to take some time and practice to get used to. I did some laps around a school today for about 15 miles. While cruising, my "wobble zone" is around 22mph(35kmh). At this speed wobbles can happen unexpectedly for reasons I haven't learned yet. If there is a distraction or unplanned situation (like a car pulling  out in front of me) I could be in serious trouble. So for that reason I know I can't travel at the higher speeds yet while in public.

I was able to hit 40kmh on a smooth asphalt downhill without any wobbles and also a few times today while I was doing laps. This helped me to confirm that the cause of the wobbles is not the wheel, its me. @ricqvo just keep riding, you will be a pro in no time!

I just wanted to toss in my 2 cent with a little tip. @nte

I have started to ride intentionally with feet being a little off set to one another. I have my dominant leg (right) as a weight carry balance leg.

Then I have my weak leg (left) that I use as my gas and break leg if you like. I don’t use my right leg as much as for balance, as my dominant leg more or less supports my balancing weight.

I started doing this, as I kept getting fatigue and pains in my left foot. Now riding more and with the KS pedals it doesn’t happen as much anymore as it used to on my Inmotion V8. Of course, it might be different things that have improved, my stamina in legs/feet, more mileage covered or the wheel change, who knows. 

Now this is just where my bonus observation comes in. I get speed wobbles once fatigue sets in. But I found these are easier to get under control if it happens. I then go slower a short while, then I can slowly speed back up.

@US69 I still love my new KS18L, but now our elevator is out of order, and living on 4th floor, is not fund with a 20ish kg wheel.  And incomming rain showers I made a decission to do a few days of flat/storage cleaning  I hope they get a new door fast for our elevator. 

Edited August 6, 2018 by Unventor

[US69]

48 minutes ago, em1barns said:

So what you are tyring to say is that I should be happy about KS flaws because other manufacturers also have flaws, and sometimes maybe worst ones?

 

Nope! I dont say that you should be happy with any flaws!

But what should i answer to - i call it cynic-  post like this:

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 12:11 PM, em1barns said:

I am amazed Kingsong spends so much time and effort (and in essence money) correcting decorative side lights and trolley sensor issues, instead of improving essential features: having a rock-solid trolley and weatherproof wheel (ip54 at least).

In my view the KS wheels have the best Trolleys in the Industrie....it is in the middle of the Wheel, not at the end like other manufactures. About 80% of all users who have used those Trolleys are really happy with them, at least that is my Feedback in the last 3,5 years here. The only negative Feedback until now, was that they are not high enough! So KS changed that!

That YOU are not happy with the to Long trolley is a opinion, which some users might share, but other users dont share! 

And then: I Also i have absolutley no clue where you get the assumption from that the 18L is not  AT Least Splash water resistant..any failures, anything else than speculations for that???

Then:

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 12:11 PM, em1barns said:

To me they lost the sense of priorities doing so. Better have a rock-solid trolley without lift sensor than current unstable trolley with a lift sensor that will never work reliably (seeing the technical solution chosen, it will never work 100%). 

Where do you know from that the trolley sensor will not work reliable from? Please give me your expert, professional view! Or just another assumption? There is allready a fixed FW1.07 in the world ...untill now no failure Reports anymore on this Version....

Next:

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 12:11 PM, em1barns said:

All these small unmastered features also raise the concern that at some stage the real-time microprocessor will bug while riding due to some fancy features (such as USB key music) not properly written.

So it would not require much to make it an excellent wheel, but ks priorities do puzzle me.

Yeah, again, than using a third Party app which will making the Wheel fail should raise your concern, also! You know, there are users which buy the KS wheels because of those "fancy Features" like very easy playing  Music, Led Lights when rolling or playing music! If you have no use for LED Lights and Music and "Fancy Features" at all....a KS perhaps really was the wrong choice then?

48 minutes ago, em1barns said:

Is there any other wheel out there that one may need to quickly open and disconnect batteries for fear it may catch on fire?

So, and here we are back again at what i call "Social Media Histerics"

As said a thousand times...this is a worst failure, when such a trolley lock happens, and it is not handled like a "Little bug", it s been taken serious!

But: the the worst that happend to a Wheel was that the board fried! What technically happens is that the Wheel goes into a loop and has direct current(DC)on the Mosfets, which are still in the Limits of the the battery! With the time this DC may fry the board ----thats it---- NO FIRE...if the batterys would have to go over their Limits..the Fuse would blow!

 

I am still doing this as my Hobby, and when i then sometimes see such a post in THAT tone, with such lot assumptions and opinions, then i take the "KS Rep" back and answer back in the same way!!!

So and now you can downvote me again!  Fortunatly 6 other People had other opinions on how to vote on my answer, which Shows me that it wasnt that wrong!

Edited August 6, 2018 by US69

[Unventor]

51 minutes ago, em1barns said:

So what you are tyring to say is that I should be happy about KS flaws because other manufacturers also have flaws, and sometimes maybe worst ones?

Is there any other wheel out there that one may need to quickly open and disconnect batteries for fear it may catch on fire?

You do recall @US69 do not make decissions for Kingsong, and only works as a messanger. 

I am pretty sure all here want high quality wheels. But all newly released wheels seems to have some little issue to get fixed oneway or the other. Now you can argue that Z10 don't have issues yet, but in my eyes it is so limited sales of live units that have reached their customers yet, so less wait and see. As og GW monster X, well it is also too early yet in my book.

Edit: @US69 I think you have doe an awesom job, and I think it is a good will intention on Kingsons behave have you as their rep. Now right/wrong/fair or not people will take a swing at you as you are closest they can reach. Keep up the good work, Sir. 

Edited August 6, 2018 by Unventor
I wrote this as you poste the above US69

[Unventor]

A short question @US69 about firmware. Isaw someone posting a 1.08 version is in the works. Can you share some light on this (yet) ?

And any news you can share (of course again, yet) on the new App, I take it is both iOS (not so important to me) and Andrain (this is my platform)? Like ETA?

I do realize some details might be too early stage or under embargo. 

[em1barns]

10 minutes ago, Unventor said:

You do recall @US69 do not make decissions for Kingsong, and only works as a messanger. 

I am pretty sure all here want high quality wheels. But all newly released wheels seems to have some little issue to get fixed oneway or the other. Now you can argue that Z10 don't have issues yet, but in my eyes it is so limited sales of live units that have reached their customers yet, so less wait and see. As og GW monster X, well it is also too early yet in my book. 

I have already stated in previous posts all the things I liked about KS18L, and there are many.

It could be really an excellent wheel, with better weatherproofing (I am not talking about splash proof, but ability to ride under heavy rain) from outer shell, an a better rugged trolley. And I am not the only one thinking so, same feedback on french forum and from other known / respected wheelers on this forum...

Note that for weatherproofing, I am preparing a custom neoprene cover (well, my wife is, bless her), so it should take care of this issue.

@US69, I am not looking for a fight, so let's say our opinions diverge on this specific topic, and keep it there.

[Circuitmage]

Update:

My 18L has had the "newer" 1.07 FW (not original 1.07) on it for about 4 days of riding now. I won't feel comfortable unless I get ~ 100km on it, as the two lock-ups I had were about 40 and 50 km marks. I did, however walk it about the house, turning it off and on after the FW update, and so far have had no issues. Since it happened while trollying, I am hoping KS zeroed in on the failure and this is the fix. If it locks up again, I will post here.

@US69 FYI, my very first KS...KS16S had a controller board problem that took about 2 weeks to resolve. I still stick by KS quality and their ability to resolve customer issues. They both are beautiful machines. I now have over 1300 miles on my 16S as about a 5 mile a day commuter.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Circuitmage

[US69]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

A short question @US69 about firmware. Isaw someone posting a 1.08 version is in the works. Can you share some light on this (yet) ?

And any news you can share (of course again, yet) on the new App, I take it is both iOS (not so important to me) and Andrain (this is my platform)? Like ETA?

I do realize some details might be too early stage or under embargo. 

Actually the updated and revised Version of V1.07 is delivered to the People that had the Problem. Also since 01.August this updated Version is on the "official" Server, so all new Wheel owners will allready get it. Before it will be implemented in V1.08 more Feedback of the related users is required and/or it has to be seen if None of the "new V1.07" users will have a Problem.

So i dont have a date in sight for V1.08, Sorry!

Also for any app updates i can confirm Nothing new….There have been talkings to a well known app developer, but KS decided lately to better look out for an Chinese developer, so that their chinese engeneer Team does not get to much interrupted by language barrier Problems.

Edited August 6, 2018 by US69

[tim716]

That's quite surprising and a bit hilarious news. Do you know why Kingsong is doing it this way? "There is 1.07 old and 1.07 new. Well, yeah you have 1.07 old but I have 1.07 new. No, your 1.07 is not the right 1.07, the right 1.07 is mine. Etc. :) Did they run out of version numbers, or pay tax for each new number? Wouldn't it be much easier to just name the "new 1.07" 1.08 and release it? I'd be understandable if the "new 1.07" was just a questionable beta which they wanted to test just on the affected wheels. But since they release it to everybody getting 18L after August 1... that's quite strange :)

[Lutalo]

1 hour ago, em1barns said:

Note that for weatherproofing, I am preparing a custom neoprene cover (well, my wife is, bless her), so it should take care of this issue.

Well now, there we have a positive development. The aftermarket is what happens when sideline engineering (SE) actually becomes a positive force in an industry. SE allows a consumer to impose their own priorities on a product, and possibly the company and the industry. 

The automotive industry contains great examples of SE. A good example is Mercedes Benz's AMG division. AMG began in 1967 as a small shop in the rolling green hills of Germany ☺ by two or three guys who thought the cars were great, but too slow. These guys took upon themselves the task of making Mercedes Benz vehicles faster. Long story short: they did the damn thing. Their reputation grew, people wanted AMG's upgraded saloons. Demand grew, money grew, and Mercedes Benz noticed. They bought AMG, and now and now AMG represents the flagship in many of Benz's model lineups. 

Develop your cover, might turn out to be the next big thing. One thing is for certain, the unicycle industry currently has no aftermarket of which to speak.

[Circuitmage]

@tim716 It's not unheard of for a company to make special FW for specific customers, or as a debugging tool. Since there are some number of people experiencing this, it is a fast way of debugging. Someone just made the decision not to roll the rev, as if they did, and a customer update goes to 1.09, then everyone would be asking "Where did 1.08 go to?". However they want to do it, is fine with me. I'm just glad they are making the effort.

[winter]

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by nte

[Shad0z]

2 hours ago, US69 said:

Nope! I dont say that you should be happy with any flaws!

But what should i answer to - i call it cynic-  post like this:

In my view the KS wheels have the best Trolleys in the Industrie....it is in the middle of the Wheel, not at the end like other manufactures. About 80% of all users who have used those Trolleys are really happy with them, at least that is my Feedback in the last 3,5 years here. The only negative Feedback until now, was that they are not high enough! So KS changed that!

 

Ks trolley seem like a good idea and all, but i have seen way too many of them break because they both function as a trolley and a carry handle, i have seen many wheels with trolleys where they get loose and extend when being carried, on wheels all fron an old ks16, to a new ks18L. I think its better to have a carrying handle and trolley seperate, like on the tesla, though i think the tesla trolley is slightly flimsy, but much easier to pull up instead of fiddling with a button. But its all about opinions

[tim716]

2 minutes ago, Circuitmage said:

@tim716 It's not unheard of for a company to make special FW for specific customers, or as a debugging tool. Since there are some number of people experiencing this, it is a fast way of debugging. Someone just made the decision not to roll the rev, as if they did, and a customer update goes to 1.09, then everyone would be asking "Where did 1.08 go to?". However they want to do it, is fine with me. I'm just glad they are making the effort.

Absolutely. But you forgot the core thing I mentioned: the "new 1.07" is NOT for specific customers, it's already avaliable to EVERYONE buying a 18L after August 1. That is - for ANY 18L which is not already upgraded to the "old 1.07". That's not how special FW or debugging tools are made and released.

If there is any sense in that at all, it resembles a medicine testing with "test" and "placebo" groups.

[Unventor]

Ok so until now I had the trolley switch set to off. I will keep that until we get the new release. I rather avoid a lockup but miss my auto cut-off engine. On the flip side, I can trolley over bigger door steps than my Inmotion v8 could. 

Kinda like I love this about the old car, but I like this on the new car...and yet I drive my new car all the time, situation ?  

[Lutalo]

45 minutes ago, nte said:

Based on how their current infrastructure is setup, they had to release "1.0.7new0801" to the general public after August 1st. They had to do this to get the fixed firmware to the people with the "freeze" problem. 

Ok then, since my 18L came on August 2, and I updated firmware on the same day, I deduce that I got the latest version that hopefully fixes the trolley lockup related to the lift sensor. Splendid ☺?

[US69]

1 hour ago, Shad0z said:

Ks trolley seem like a good idea and all, but i have seen way too many of them break because they both function as a trolley and a carry handle, i have seen many wheels with trolleys where they get loose and extend when being carried, on wheels all fron an old ks16, to a new ks18L. I think its better to have a carrying handle and trolley seperate, like on the tesla, though i think the tesla trolley is slightly flimsy, but much easier to pull up instead of fiddling with a button. But its all about opinions

So your opinion is that the GW trolley handle, which are just about a quarter of the same material are better? :-)

What i also found astonishing....i am driving and riding since 3,5 years in several group rides and moderating about 3 FB groups, about 12000 km ridden, while you have your -first ever- Tesla first wheel now how long? 5-6 months?

And while in all the time i never even heard of a KS Trolley braking (without abusing it)...and the only thing i would go with is that sometimes the locking mechanism is a bit finicky....You want to tell me you have “SEEN WAY TO MANY” of them breaking????

Didnt you read my last post about „social media histeria“?

You know even when you would come out of the mekka of EUC riding, which is in my view Paris whith its massive group rides and lots of EUCS....even THAN i would not believe ONE word of ...quote „have seen WAY TO MANY of them braking”!!!

Thats exactly what i mean...everbody can come and tell whatever he likes to and the rumour is spread!

Thats exactly why some REAL, real experts like for example 1radwerkstatt, which had sold and repaired hundreds of wheels isnt that often commenting or reading hear anymore! He just cant stand this Nonsense anymore!

 

 

Edited August 6, 2018 by US69