Popular Post esaj Posted July 5, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) We've had (at least) seven reports of KS18L locking up (and in fact, heating up after locking) while the wheel has been trolleyed around. If this happens to you, as soon as possible, open the wheel and disconnect the batteries to prevent things from overheating. From the reports so far, it seems to be an issue with the new trolley handle lifting detection, but this is not certain. FW 1.07 was supposed to fix the issue, but turned out that it apparently wasn't caused by the LED-issue they fixed? At least 4 of the cases have occurred with FW 1.07. Be careful out there, if you can help it, maybe wait until they've officially called the "all clear" and released new firmware. At least try to avoid trolleying the wheel around and/or disable the motor deactivation when lifting (apparently it can be done from the app). "Luckily" it seems to not be very common, as we're not getting reports all the time. Experience from Russia: The user Asu6nik walked his KS18L by the trolley inside a shopping mall. After some 20 metres, the wheel stopped, locked in one position and resisted turning, it did not respond to button presses. After one hour, he was able to take it apart and disconnect the batteries. By that time, the whole case became very hot, the batteries inside were very hot and were making a quiet hissing sound that could be heard by pressing one's ear against the battery case, the sound resembled a boiling teapot. After letting everything cool off and reconnecting the batteries, Asu6nik had the wheel ridable again. The charge level dropped from 85% to 40% in the process. Notes: -All cases happened while trolleying the wheel, no-one so far has reported issues while riding -May cause battery, mainboard and motor damage, and if battery cells heat up too much, there's a possible danger of fire. If this happens to you, disconnect the battery if you can, if you cannot, move the wheel to somewhere where it's relatively safe for it to (possibly) go up in flames (it might not do much else than drain the battery, but just in case) -1.07 firmware update does not prevent the issue from happening -If it's related to the lifting sensor in the handle, like it seems, turning that off might prevent the issue (but that's just guesswork) At least one report with FW 1.07 + sensor turned off, still causing locking This unboxing procedure for anyone with new 18L was suggested by @nte, I'd guess it at least couldn't hurt: 5 hours ago, nte said: I'm thinking this might become the 18L unboxing procedure for those that don't want to deal with this unexpectedly. According to @Shad0z it could still lock up with the sensor off. 1. Unbox 18L 2. Remove covers 3. Power on 4. Update firmware 5. Calibrate lift sensor 6. Turn off lift sensor 7. Trolley around the house for 30+ minutes Related topics: Edited July 24, 2018 by esaj 5 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TomOnWheels Posted July 5, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 5, 2018 I've pushed my post to King Song global and King Song Europe... Just in case... They are quite concern and reactive in actions but not very good in communication... so I'm not expecting lot of posts from them here but some actions ? 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winter Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) Edited August 18, 2018 by nte 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that0n3guy Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Just now, nte said: KS pulled 1.0.7 Really? I'm running 1.0.7... should I not ride it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winter Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) Edited August 18, 2018 by nte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that0n3guy Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 1 hour ago, nte said: KS pulled 1.0.7 Where did you see they pulled it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatmike Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) Im running 1.0.7 too! Any other news? Edited July 6, 2018 by phatmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomOnWheels Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 The two cases of KS18L that are out of order was reported with two different versions of firmware 1.0.6 and 1.0.7. So it probably do not make any difference when it come to this issue... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chriull Posted July 6, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 6, 2018 Just to get the reference to the post of @tinawong (from King Song Intell Co., Ltd) here to the pinned topic: 32 minutes ago, tinawong said: @TomOnWheels Hi Friend, this is Tina from King Song Intell Co., Ltd. I am sorry for your problems. We got a similar case like you, and our engineer team made full test immediately and added a test link since our second batch to the oversea market to avoid this kind of issue. Also, we have advised our agent to contact with buyers to do the same test in the end user's side. For your wheel, pls kindly contact with the seller to get a replaced control board. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yar Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 12 hours ago, that0n3guy said: Where did you see they pulled it? Strange, I updated to 1.07 via iOS about 2 hours ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) Updated some details in the first post, let me know of any further info that comes along or if there are errors in the post. Edited July 6, 2018 by esaj 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
that0n3guy Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 107 is back up... I'm thinking they didn't pull it, or had server/cache issues so that 18l wasn't even shown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomOnWheels Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 45 minutes ago, esaj said: Updated some details in the first post, let me know of any further info that comes along or if there are errors in the post. You do really an amazing job. Thanks. Also just as some extra info. I hate blinking leds on my vehicule so when it died the leds was off... It most likely a hardware design defect or maybe a mosfet defect... Anyway i asked Tina for some extra info... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post US69 Posted July 7, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 7, 2018 (edited) @esaj The frying boards on the 18L where related to a problem with the LED lightring...a firmware problem, not app specified! In seldom situation a Lightring pattern might bring the board into a loop...get stuck, overheating and frying because of this! So yes, even if the Leds where not working...this IS the problem...KS was able to reproduce the fault at their factory! 3 days after this issue was reported KS brought out FW 1.07 which fixed the issue!!! Then they didnt take it down again....it was just that the server not working for ONE Night! So everyone shoulf be able to update to 1.07 now again (KS18L)! The IOS version of app, which still shows the 18L as illegal equipment, is in the works and will be relaesed next week, if all is running fine. I was in constant contact with @tinawong and some asian resellers, so this info should be uptodate and reliable! Sure, this firmware glitch should have never happen...but in my personal view KS has done a good job with 3 days react time to solve the issue! My 2 cents Edited July 7, 2018 by US69 4 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim716 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 But the second case happened to a wheel upgraded to 1.07... I guess that means the fix doesn't work... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomOnWheels Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 I was in 1.07 and I'm NOT using at all LEDs... It only works to show battery power (I think there is no way to switch it off). 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spmartin Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 On 7/5/2018 at 4:50 PM, esaj said: We've had a couple of reports of KS18L dying (and in fact, heating up after dying) apparently while the wheel has been trolleyed around. The details so far aren't very precise, and it's unclear whether the new firmware version (1.07?) actually fixes this. I'll update this post as we get more details. @tinawong of King Song (the forum factory representative) has posted that they're aware of the issue and that their engineering team has worked some solution, along with (apparently) regression tests. But then again, @TomOnWheels posted that the two cases have been on different firmwares (1.06 and 1.07), so not sure if the fix is out yet. Be careful out there, if you can help it, maybe wait until they've officially called the "all clear" and released new firmware. No exact reason for this is known (the "LED rings" have been mentioned having some issues, not sure if that's the cause), but apparently the wheel fries mosfets ("locked motor"), yet the short may cause a high current to continue running through the mainboard and motor, heating up the mainboard parts and phase wires. So likely atleast one from BOTH high- and low-side fets are gone at that point (current running through the high-side fet, then through two motor phases, and to ground through a low-side fet on another half-bridge, otherwise the motor cables shouldn't get hot?). Notes: -May cause mainboard and motor damage, and if battery cells heat up too much, there's a possible danger of fire -If it is in fact the LEDs, first aid might be turning off the side LEDs (I don't have a KS18L, but I think they can be turned off from the app) Tom clarified below that in his case the side-LEDs were already off, so we're back to square one. Personal suggestion is that don't ride your wheel if you can until this is solved. -Firmware update may not work with iOS? Borrow an Android phone from somewhere. Related topics: I am just considering the purchase of a King Song 18L, but I am wondering what options I have in the U.S. if my EUC needs repair? Even warranty work? Does it need to be shipped back to the manufacturer? Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 4 hours ago, US69 said: @esaj The frying boards on the 18L where related to a problem with the LED lightring...a firmware problem, not app specified! In seldom situation a Lightring pattern might bring the board into a loop...get stuck, overheating and frying because of this! So yes, even if the Leds where not working...this IS the problem...KS was able to reproduce the fault at their factory! 3 days after this issue was reported KS brought out FW 1.07 which fixed the issue!!! Yes, but as @TomOnWheels stated above, the second case occurred with FW 1.07. Separate issue or the fix doesn't cover all the cases? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 54 minutes ago, spmartin said: I am just considering the purchase of a King Song 18L, but I am wondering what options I have in the U.S. if my EUC needs repair? Even warranty work? Does it need to be shipped back to the manufacturer? Thanks! If you buy from an US reseller, such as eWheels (Jason), they'll take care of warranty repairs, if such are needed at some point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatmike Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 I hope that this is a not problem related to the first batch of KS 18l. Some defective components or something like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomOnWheels Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 hour ago, phatmike said: I hope that this is a not problem related to the first batch of KS 18l. Some defective components or something like that Well, this is not confirmed, but what I hear around for different KS people is that this is something that has to do with first batch and components providers... But this is just a rumour ! So please do not take it as an reality ! We already know that a extra temperature sensor was added in the 1st batch... There are and probably will be small changes in hardware... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 3 hours ago, esaj said: Yes, but as @TomOnWheels stated above, the second case occurred with FW 1.07. Separate issue or the fix doesn't cover all the cases? as i understand it, kingsong was totally able to reproduce the fault and has fixed it. WHEN there was an board fried with 1.07, at first i would call that an isolated case and not depending on the general problem. When there are still amd more cases coming up about frying boards, even under 1.07, the exact scenarios need to be collected and reported to KS. Rumours dont help a lot, facts are needed. About an added temperature sensor: This has nothing todo with the faults... The KS18L is on of the first wheels that has added an extra temperature sensor which is reading the motor temperature inside the wh eell'mmw An info which can be seen under More-detailed Parameters.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jerome Posted July 7, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 7, 2018 I got my KS18L late Thursday and just charged it as I was afraid to try it until I could do the 1.07 firmware update. KS doesn't make it easy to get their app downloaded. If it wasn't for this forum .. someone posted a link by eocdrift, I would still be waiting for instruction from Jason. It rain on and off Friday so I only manage a 8 mile ride around the neighborhood. Today I did a leisurely ride of 20 miles non-stop (except at lights, etc.) The route was mostly flat accept for some roller-coaster ups-downs and a .25 mile climb towards the end with the steepest part ~ 20% leveling to ~ 10%. Maximum speed was 21 mph and the average was 11 mph due to heavy pedestrian-bike traffic for almost half the ride. I am 6' 4'+ and rider weight was ~ 235 lbs. If the first batch has hardware problems I am probably a lucky one. I suspect, however, that it was a firmware problem that was fixed with release 1.07. We shall see. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 Updated the first post a bit again. Hopefully these are two isolated cases (one with the earlier firmware problem, one with maybe hardware issue in the 1st batch?). Still keeping this pinned so people are at least aware of the possibility. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry71 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 (edited) ONE MORE SAME CASE IN RUSSIA, FIRMWARE 1.06 https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Felectrotransport.ru%2Fussr%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D51032.msg1391825%23msg1391825&edit-text= Edited July 7, 2018 by Dmitry71 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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