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Best Long Range Wheel


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1 hour ago, Yffisch said:

I've started looking for my second wheel. Even though I'm extremely satisfied with my MCM4. I want the wheel to have the same capacity and weight/size as MCM4, but longer distance. My current one is 60-70km (35km in reality distance, 35kmh max speed).
Are there actually any such wheels (yet)? I don't want a bigger wheel (14") since I need to have it on trains/busses between my legs, and I don't want the weight to be more than 14-15kg as my current one. I've been looking at MCM5, it seems to be stronger, but heavier and it does not seem to have more range and it's way more expensive.

Maybe the MCM4 is the perfect wheel for all my needs at the moment, it's also extremely cheap for what you actually get.
Any advice?

Yes, you can dramatically increases the range of any wheel if you can somehow ride seated with a modest cant to your body posture (not upright) and your speeds are higher rather than lower (20mph?).

To be very specific, in the same stretch of level road on the same day on my MSuper, WheelLog shows a consumption of 150 watts (per second?) whereas riding seated, knees close together in a foreward leaning crouch shows 90 watts.

I don't remember what the ride standing with an extreme bow is, but it wasn't worse than seated, but that's unbearably uncomfortable.

I don't trust my MSuper to ride seated, so that leaves the KS18S as the only game in town, as you can ride seated and it has the 1600 wh.

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15 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

To be very specific, in the same stretch of level road on the same day on my MSuper, WheelLog shows a consumption of 150 watts (per second?) whereas riding seated, knees close together in a foreward leaning crouch shows 90 watts.

WIND RESISTANCE
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Seriously, especially at high speeds, wind resistance is the big majority of your wheel's power usage. Neither power needed for balancing nor tire rolling resistance grows much (if at all) with speed. So essentially every power use increase up from 10kph speeds is due to the higher wind drag (and a little back EMF, I guess).

Makes sense that sitting down and decreasing your cross section shows an effect.

Good post, I never realized you could increase range (and by so much!) with seated riding. Though it seems obvious in hindsight.

(Watts is Joule [energy] per second, so already "per second" in there.)

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8 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

 

Makes sense that sitting down and decreasing your cross section shows an effect.

Good post, I never realized you could increase range (and by so much!) with seated riding. Though it seems obvious in hindsight.

(Watts is Joule [energy] per second, so already "per second" in there.)

I had difficulty holding my phone in one hand while trying to maintain the same speed, but I think I wasn't off by more than 20 watts each direction (40 total) at the very worst.

However, the forward lean is more important than being seated, but the seated position allows you to lean forward. I wasn't comfortable standing while cranking my upper body horizontal.

When you stand up after sitting leaned forward, the difference in wind suddenly hitting you feels quite extreme. Personally, I always ride standing, with no interest in sitting due to the lack of suspension.

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20 hours ago, Jerome said:

You can't improve range and keep the same performance without gaining weight and cost. The closest wheel to your requirements with greater range is the King Song 14S and then the MCM5 as you mentioned.

 

Yes, I understand that. But since the MCM4 is from 2015, then the battery technology may have improved a bit and the MCM5 could have potentially better capacity keeping the same weight.
But I guess the MCM4 is the absolute best wheel for my requirements then. Good speed, strong, long range, small, cheap etc...The ultimate wheel :P

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IMHO - The best long range wheel for me would be my Monster 2400.

I do not carry it or lug it anywhere. It is very heavy.

I ride it from my house 30+ miles on the trails and back home.

For distance it is the best.

For speed my Monster 1865 100v is unbeatable.

I will race anyone, in the seated position.

again this Monster is very heavy and not for faint of heart.

My MSX 1600 is better because it has a Trolley handle.

I ride it seated and it is Great!

The range is very good but not as far as the Monster 2400.

Different animals altogether.

Gotta buy what you need, these 3 work for me.

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On 11/22/2018 at 11:44 AM, LanghamP said:

personally, I always ride standing, with no interest in sitting due to the lack of suspension.

Actually, if you know good technique, seated riding suspension is BETTER than standing. The trick is you need timing and a fair bit of strength. 

When you come across an (unavoidable) bump or pothole, use your legs to slightly raise your entire body off the seat. When you hit the bump the wheel will bounce up and then back down with you feeling significantly less jarring then if you were standing. Why? Think about the “suspension” you use when you lift your body off the seat. You’re basically crouching extremely low,—a significant suspension— versus the slight suspension you get standing up but slightly bent at the knees. 

You must have the leg strength to do this, basically just “lifting yourself out of a deep squat” strength, and you must have good timing/vision to see the obstacles. 

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On 11/23/2018 at 1:06 AM, Yffisch said:

I've started looking for my second wheel...

I don't want a bigger wheel (14") since I need to have it on trains/busses between my legs, and I don't want the weight to be more than 14-15kg as my current one.

What's the reason your not considering a larger wheel? I appreciate smaller wheels have there advantages but bigger wheels have there advantages as well, and you already have a small wheel.

I now own a 16" and a 19" wheel and the difference between riding the two is like night and day. Aside from the obvious extra range and power of the bigger wheel it is just so much more pleasant to ride. Admittedly it is more of a beast to manhandle but once rolling it really is an absolute pleasure. I appreciate you love what you already have and don't want to compromise on what you got but honestly, a 16" wheel would be perfectly fine to take on a bus and while 17kg is obviously more to lift than 14 it is still quite manageable, and the advantages of those extra inches relay is appreciable.

So, if you're after a second wheel I would recommend getting a bigger one. You can still use you 14" for high-density urban manoeuvring but if you traveling distances such that range is becoming an issue I'd recommend your second wheel being one that is more suited to longer rides in more ways than just range ;)

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On 11/22/2018 at 6:06 AM, Yffisch said:

Are there actually any such wheels (yet)? I don't want a bigger wheel (14") since I need to have it on trains/busses between my legs, and I don't want the weight to be more than 14-15kg as my current one. I've been looking at MCM5, it seems to be stronger, but heavier and it does not seem to have more range and it's way more expensive.

I understand what you're saying about small and light being better for public transportation. 

I had a 840Wh KS14C that was a bit on the heavier side (but manageable) and upgraded to the lighter KS14D. Much more convenient to carry and easier to stow (at the expense of range).

Now I'm back to 840Wh with a KS16S. However, being over 16kg (instead of under like a KS14S) was an important consideration for trains and buses. (Less convenient overall.)

Had it not been for the extra battery redundancy, I might have stayed at 420Wh. You can really feel small weight differences after about 14 or 15kg, but that's why 14 inch wheels tend to stay at or below this 'practical' weight. 

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On 11/26/2018 at 1:32 PM, Slartibartfast said:

What's the reason your not considering a larger wheel? I appreciate smaller wheels have there advantages but bigger wheels have there advantages as well, and you already have a small wheel.

I now own a 16" and a 19" wheel and the difference between riding the two is like night and day. Aside from the obvious extra range and power of the bigger wheel it is just so much more pleasant to ride. Admittedly it is more of a beast to manhandle but once rolling it really is an absolute pleasure. I appreciate you love what you already have and don't want to compromise on what you got but honestly, a 16" wheel would be perfectly fine to take on a bus and while 17kg is obviously more to lift than 14 it is still quite manageable, and the advantages of those extra inches relay is appreciable.

So, if you're after a second wheel I would recommend getting a bigger one. You can still use you 14" for high-density urban manoeuvring but if you traveling distances such that range is becoming an issue I'd recommend your second wheel being one that is more suited to longer rides in more ways than just range ;)

Yes, that is also an alternative. However, my thought was more that I would sell my "old" wheel because I live in 38 square meters with my GF and there is no room for one more wheel on the floor at the moment. I'm almost at 3000km with my current one and I don't know how long I dare to use it before it "breaks". I'm not going to use it after 10.000km, that's for sure at least. This is to reduce the risk of the wheel breaking suddenly at high speed. If some motherboard component is so worn out that it stops working etc...but maybe such things are rare?
It's important for me to carry it on busses and trains in a convenient way, but yes. I am sure I would appreciate one of the bigger long range wheels as well. But that may be more suitable when I get a bigger place to live :)

On 11/26/2018 at 5:48 PM, RayRay said:

I understand what you're saying about small and light being better for public transportation. 

I had a 840Wh KS14C that was a bit on the heavier side (but manageable) and upgraded to the lighter KS14D. Much more convenient to carry and easier to stow (at the expense of range).

Now I'm back to 840Wh with a KS16S. However, being over 16kg (instead of under like a KS14S) was an important consideration for trains and buses. (Less convenient overall.)

Had it not been for the extra battery redundancy, I might have stayed at 420Wh. You can really feel small weight differences after about 14 or 15kg, but that's why 14 inch wheels tend to stay at or below this 'practical' weight. 

Yes, I hear you! But I really think the distance on my current wheel is very good and I know that many bigger wheels will not manage the same distance, at least not in that price class :) I just want a "little bit more distance". So maybe the MCM5 is my only option at the moment.

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As your wheel get older, if it is still working fine, you can possibly just get a new battery-pack for it. At that time, you'll probably have to buy it from a third party, as it maynot be available from Gotway, but you never know. A third-party rebuild would likely be the alternative since the bms would be important. That's the best anyway since then you can choose the best cells and if there is any extra room you might be able to move to 21700 cells and get a good range boost as well.  

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8 hours ago, Yffisch said:

So maybe the MCM5 is my only option at the moment.

The KS14S is a fine wheel. (The 'other' option.)

It's a compromise between the portability of the KS14D and the ride quality of the KS16S. 

MCM5 may be more powerful, but if you just need a bit more range, it's a solid option. (Maybe a used one will pop-up soon.)

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