MSuper X vs. KS18L: Has Gotway become 'safe enough'?

[eddiemoy]

6 minutes ago, ndmcc said:

Thanks for the replies and explanations everyone, including @eddiemoy. I’ve decided to try out the MSX because I feel like I’m going to be part of the small group that goes on long explorations. As I mentioned earlier, I’ve had to avoid explorations because of my current range, and while I feel like I would be ok with the 18L’s range, the throttling at lower battery percentages of KS wheels is a big reason as to why I was hesitant to go with it. Jason from ewheels sent over some complementary padding with my 14D shortly after I got it, and I’m hoping I’ll be able to use it to counteract any top heavy feelings I may get from the MSX. I also haven’t tried any wheel above 14” yet, so hopefully since it’s my first 18” experience I won’t have any expectations ahead of time. I’m also planning to put in a bit lower speed alarms/tiltback initially to hopefully prevent bad crashes. If I many ask, how did your friends’ crashes happen? Was it due to high speeds, or were they just out of the blue? I’m also hoping that ewheels would be able to help me out if any problems did arise, as their service is notoriously great (at least it has been for me).

The worst kinds to happened to both of them, cut outs.  The MSuper, not sure if he had a batch of the bad firmware.  I don't think it was his riding skill as I've rode before with him, he is new, but he didn't seem like he was bad at it.  He also came from motorcycle side, so he knows of the dangers.  But with EUC it is different, there is no way you can prepare for a cut out.  The guy on the Msuper went to the ER twice.  He had a 3/4 helmet and busted up his chin.  The other guy on the ACM 84v, he was riding the beep the last time I rode with him.  He was on his way home after a group ride with @houseofjob, he also had a 3/4 helmet, but his fall was much more severe.  He had a concussion and can't remember what happened.  A guy in the group bumped in to the lady that called 911 after and she mention he tilted back, then he fell forward.  He was an experience rider, also from the motorcycle side.  Another guy in our group rides a Tesla, fractured his pinky from a cutout.  but he is a speed demon.  Maybe it is just people who get Gotway are pushing these to the limit and it is also on gotway to allow the limits to be removed in essence not protecting their customers like the other manufacturers.

Good luck!

[houseofjob]

@eddiemoy 67V ACM, not 84V FYI

[Roger Reece]

5 hours ago, Keith said:

I probably shouldn’t appear to be speaking on @LanghamP‘s behalf, but I’m pretty sure he means more prone to injury, not more likely to be doddering old sods who cannot keep their balance on two legs - let alone one wheel ?.

And, at 62 I would absolutely agree, not only did my one and only bad faceplant leave me with seriously weakened wrists for something like a horrifying 6 months but an unrelated injury with a 2KW motored electric helicopter (where I discovered that tablets that say: “Do not operate machinery whilst taking these” actually DO mean don’t operate machinery whilst taking them!) taught me an even more worrying lesson. The accident didn't  do me that much harm but put me into shock so badly that I would have sat their and bleed to death whilst watching it had my wife and daughter (British Airways cabin crew so well trained in first aid) not been on hand to look after me. I.e. I was totally incapable of phoning for an ambulance or even speaking. The possibility of having an accident with nobody else around is not a risk I will be taking again anytime soon! I did much worst things to myself on motorbikes in my youth without going into shock.

As we get older we have to make decisions.  When I crashed my Honda Shadow and broke 4 ribs at 50, I decided to get rid of my motorcycles.  Then at 60 I got tired of the steady decline of age and started new hobbies that got me out with some adrenaline rushes.  first it was mountain biking, and I had lots of injuries.  I guess what was different was determination to just practice until I got better and better, rather than giving it up.  When hoverboards came on the scene I had a bad crash on concrete with no pads.  That was in 2015 and I still have a bad shoulder from it.  Anyway, I'm 67 now, and I went from hoverboards to eskateboards to Onewheel, and then just a few weeks ago I found EUCs.  I bought a used MSuper V3 from Craig's List to learn on, and now I'm totally hooked.  So maybe I'm due for more injuries, but I refuse to be one of those doddering old sods.  Some people get hurt because they are out of shape and careless and have no business riding an EUC.  But some of us old guys are pretty good at this.  I watch the YouTube videos everyone posts and they are in inspiration to me.  I plan to be riding EUCs through my 70s and into my 80s.

[Roger Reece]

6 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

The difference between the 100-volt Monster and 84-volt Monster is not night and day. A bit more low end power but I think primarily the gains are in the top-end speed.

Either version of the Monster is not a fun wheel to ride up steep hills. However, I had seen first hand that the Monster flies up steep hills when seated. I still intend on modifying my Monster by adding supports in front of my shins so that I can lean into the hills much easier for climbing. It's all about leverage. If you can apply enough forward force on the shell the Monster has amazing power. This is accomplished either by sitting or squeezing the side pads to force the shell forward.

As far as general rocky and rut infested trails go, the Monster laughs at it all. If you want to explore on and off road and never worry about the battery, go for the 2400wh version. I can get a reliable 65-miles from mine. When riding slow (~15-mph) I've achieved 95-miles 

Thanks Marty.  I appreciate the feedback.

[Marty Backe]

52 minutes ago, Roger Reece said:

As we get older we have to make decisions.  When I crashed my Honda Shadow and broke 4 ribs at 50, I decided to get rid of my motorcycles.  Then at 60 I got tired of the steady decline of age and started new hobbies that got me out with some adrenaline rushes.  first it was mountain biking, and I had lots of injuries.  I guess what was different was determination to just practice until I got better and better, rather than giving it up.  When hoverboards came on the scene I had a bad crash on concrete with no pads.  That was in 2015 and I still have a bad shoulder from it.  Anyway, I'm 67 now, and I went from hoverboards to eskateboards to Onewheel, and then just a few weeks ago I found EUCs.  I bought a used MSuper V3 from Craig's List to learn on, and now I'm totally hooked.  So maybe I'm due for more injuries, but I refuse to be one of those doddering old sods.  Some people get hurt because they are out of shape and careless and have no business riding an EUC.  But some of us old guys are pretty good at this.  I watch the YouTube videos everyone posts and they are in inspiration to me.  I plan to be riding EUCs through my 70s and into my 80s.

What's wrong with the 90's 

[Lutalo]

2 hours ago, ndmcc said:

Thanks for the replies and explanations everyone, including @eddiemoy. I’ve decided to try out the MSX because I feel like I’m going to be part of the small group that goes on long explorations. As I mentioned earlier, I’ve had to avoid explorations because of my current range, and while I feel like I would be ok with the 18L’s range, the throttling at lower battery percentages of KS wheels is a big reason as to why I was hesitant to go with it. Jason from ewheels sent over some complementary padding with my 14D shortly after I got it, and I’m hoping I’ll be able to use it to counteract any top heavy feelings I may get from the MSX. I also haven’t tried any wheel above 14” yet, so hopefully since it’s my first 18” experience I won’t have any expectations ahead of time. I’m also planning to put in a bit lower speed alarms/tiltback initially to hopefully prevent bad crashes. If I many ask, how did your friends’ crashes happen? Was it due to high speeds, or were they just out of the blue? I’m also hoping that ewheels would be able to help me out if any problems did arise, as their service is notoriously great (at least it has been for me).

I am fond of Kingsong products for a lot of the same reasons that @eddiemoymentioned. I own three KS wheels and can attest to their build quality and durability. When my son decided to upgrade from his current KS 18AY, the 18L was a no brainer.

However, for me the range is a bit more important. Sure one can stop for lunch and recharge on a ride, I have done just that on numerous occasions during group ride outings. During group rides stopping for breaks is normal because group riders can have a variety of wheels with a variety of speed and range capabilities. The group rides sort of need to conform to the diversity level of the wheels that are a part of the riding group. 

I most frequently ride alone and quite continuously on my travels through DC on terrain that switches very often between dense urban streets, and paved trail surfaces in the natural parks that run throughout the entire DMV. 

However, my ride style and habits; i.e, mixing the use of riding Metrorail (DCs subway system) with riding the wheel are customized to conserve the predictably limited range of my KS 18AY during my longer solo outings that have never included stops.

Kingsong's "anti-faceplant" mechanism limits power for safety; to ensure the machine is not pushed harder than it can reliably supply power. Consequently, the restricted cruising speed in an 18L at 50% battery will be roughly equivalent to the top speed of my current 18AY. (Assuming 80% of the 18L's top speed is available at 50% battery).

My normal speed range is about 21-25kph on the paved trails around DC, and approximately 12-21kph on the packed city streets; realistically, I would not even really notice the speed limit reduction because I would regularly on my rides be anywhere near top speed in the first place. Unless I decide to relocate to a rural area (very doubtful as I absolutely loathe country living.), I do not expect my cruising speeds to drastically change with a wheel upgrade.

If Gotway is going to allow a rider to fully push the wheel all the way to 15% battery reserve then they need to have a very effective way to supply power all the way down to 15%. Reliable power at lower battery levels probably has something to do with the 100v systems with which they have most pleasantly surprised some MSX buyers. 

Due to the range capabilities of a 1600wh battery, I am at least peripherally considering an MSX. I have never even remotely considered a Gotway before my current semi-serious consideration of the new MSX. I have an exit strategy in mind. Range is important, but I am still not sure how much more useful capability I actually need. I plan to borrow my son's 18L for a range test on one of my typically longer solo outings to see how it performs; I will of course, omit the bursts of subway riding from the outing to test the true range performance of the 18L, and how well it conforms to my needs. the results will really narrow it down for me. If the 18L's range does not cut it I will buy the Gotway, if it does, I will be welcoming a second 18L into my home. As far as the Gotway ride dynamics and design that some of my fellow KSrs decry, If I commit and buy an MSX, I will adapt and overcome. 

[joku]

@Lutalo even with all the faceplants that @eddiemoy has spoken about? I know the msx has more range and speed, but is it really worth the higher possibility of faceplanting? I went with the ks18l, because it's not worth it to me

[Marty Backe]

32 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

I am fond of Kingsong products for a lot of the same reasons that @eddiemoymentioned. I own three KS wheels and can attest to their build quality and durability. When my son decided to upgrade from his current KS 18AY, the 18L was a no brainer.

However, for me the range is a bit more important. Sure one can stop for lunch and recharge on a ride, I have done just that on numerous occasions during group ride outings. During group rides stopping for breaks is normal because group riders can have a variety of wheels with a variety of speed and range capabilities. The group rides sort of need to conform to the diversity level of the wheels that are a part of the riding group. 

I most frequently ride alone and quite continuously on my travels through DC on terrain that switches very often between dense urban streets, and paved trail surfaces in the natural parks that run throughout the entire DMV. 

However, my ride style and habits; i.e, mixing the use of riding Metrorail (DCs subway system) with riding the wheel are customized to conserve the predictably limited range of my KS 18AY during my longer solo outings that have never included stops.

Kingsong's "anti-faceplant" mechanism limits power for safety; to ensure the machine is not pushed harder than it can reliably supply power. Consequently, the restricted cruising speed in an 18L at 50% battery will be roughly equivalent to the top speed of my current 18AY. (Assuming 80% of the 18L's top speed is available at 50% battery).

My normal speed range is about 21-25kph on the paved trails around DC, and approximately 12-21kph on the packed city streets; realistically, I would not even really notice the speed limit reduction because I would regularly on my rides be anywhere near top speed in the first place. Unless I decide to relocate to a rural area (very doubtful as I absolutely loathe country living.), I do not expect my cruising speeds to drastically change with a wheel upgrade.

If Gotway is going to allow a rider to fully push the wheel all the way to 15% battery reserve then they need to have a very effective way to supply power all the way down to 15%. Reliable power at lower battery levels probably has something to do with the 100v systems with which they have most pleasantly surprised some MSX buyers. 

Due to the range capabilities of a 1600wh battery, I am at least peripherally considering an MSX. I have never even remotely considered a Gotway before my current semi-serious consideration of the new MSX. I have an exit strategy in mind. Range is important, but I am still not sure how much more useful capability I actually need. I plan to borrow my son's 18L for a range test on one of my typically longer solo outings to see how it performs; I will of course, omit the bursts of subway riding from the outing to test the true range performance of the 18L, and how well it conforms to my needs. the results will really narrow it down for me. If the 18L's range does not cut it I will buy the Gotway, if it does, I will be welcoming a second 18L into my home. As far as the Gotway ride dynamics and design that some of my fellow KSrs decry, If I commit and buy an MSX, I will adapt and overcome. 

At least since the Tesla, Gotway does not allow you to fully push the wheel all the way to 15-percent battery.  The 3rd alarm, which you cannot turn off, engages when the wheel determines that you are at 80-percent maximum available power. This value decreases as your battery level goes down.

As an example, when I was pushing my Tesla hard at ~60-percent battery, the 3rd alarm was sounding at ~23-mph, which is a slower speed for the Tesla.

I don't think anyone knows what Gotway's algorithm is, but I just wanted to point out that you don't get 100-percent performance all the way down to 15-percent battery. Yet clearly it's a lot less conservative than KingSong.

[Lutalo]

1 minute ago, joku said:

@Lutalo even with all the faceplants that @eddiemoy has spoken about? I know the msx has more range and speed, but is it really worth the higher possibility of faceplanting? I went with the ks18l, because it's not worth it to me

I can truly dig that point of view. My son's 18L will be a part of my household.  It should be noted that KS was the only brand that I recommended to him when he ordered. I will have plenty of opportunities to ride and test it before buying anything. I know that I will love the ride of the 18L, if it returns the range I need on one my typical solo outings minus subway, its a done deal for me.

Since history is best qualified to reward research, I think the risk averse attitude toward the MSX is reasonable based on the questionable performance of some of its predecessors.

However, we have yet to see how this new generation will perform and GW has made some notable attempts to improve the wheels design construction, although still not on par with KS. I by no means intend to be a beta tester on a brand that I have felt has historically had dubious QCM, but I am willing to give it a go as a later adopter if the wheel proves reliable and KS does not meet my range needs.

[Lutalo]

3 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

At least since the Tesla, Gotway does not allow you to fully push the wheel all the way to 15-percent battery.  The 3rd alarm, which you cannot turn off, engages when the wheel determines that you are at 80-percent maximum available power. This value decreases as your battery level goes down.

As an example, when I was pushing my Tesla hard at ~60-percent battery, the 3rd alarm was sounding at ~23-mph, which is a slower speed for the Tesla.

I don't think anyone knows what Gotway's algorithm is, but I just wanted to point out that you don't get 100-percent performance all the way down to 15-percent battery. Yet clearly it's a lot less conservative than KingSong.

@Marty BackeThanks for the correction. Greatly appreciate the info. 

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

@Marty BackeThanks for the correction. Greatly appreciate the info. 

P.s. I forgot to also mention the obvious, that Gotway will beep at you when the 80-percent threshold is crossed, but you can ignore the beep and push on. KingSong tilts-back which you can't ignore.

[novazeus]

it would be a dull world if everything was as safe as possible. they’d be no liter bikes, only harleys. 

they scrape those liter bike boys off the highways a lot more frequently than the old harley crowd. 

nothing wrong with the liter bikes.

ps i’m writing this as i hear the wail of sirens on the 14 lanes of interstate that is my eastern border for an 8/10th of a mile and dammit, i hear the coyotes, thought those sob’s had left.

[Roger Reece]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

What's wrong with the 90's 

Hoping to still be on the planet during my 90's - if so, I'll be riding.

[Nick McCutcheon]

@eddiemoy, it sounds like some of those cutouts were random but some were due to nearly exceeding the capabilities of the wheels. I may be wrong though. Those seem like pretty serious consequences! When I had my cutout (an unfortunately large pothole caused the wheel to have to accelerate too fast to catch me, it cut out since I was already close to top speed at ~18mph) I sort of just fell forward with my wrist-guarded hands out in front and went into a slip-and-slide pose and slid it out for a few seconds while I watched my wheel tumble away... The worst that happened was some road rash, most of which could have been avoided by higher quality elbow and knee pads. Was I just lucky to have not had a worse fall? It seems like every fall on electric vehicles I’ve had (hoverboards, etc) have ended with me falling forwards and sliding it out with my wrist guards taking the majority of the stress and damage from grinding against the road.

When my MSX arrives likely sometime in August (according to Jason), I’ll definitely be imposing some limits right out of the box, specifically tilt back, to reduce the possibility of a cut out as much as possible. Also, current Gotway owners, does the tilt back speed automatically come down at lower battery percentages like it does on KS wheels, or does it stay at the speed you set it at with only the third alarm speed coming down?

[Xoltri]

The tilt back speed doesn't automatically reduce with battery level like it does with the KS wheels.  Just the 3rd alarm does.

[Electroman]

13 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

No, but I take it as a sign of quality.  How it was put together is a clear sign of how mature the company is in design and manufacturing.  For a wheel that has little redundancy, I wouldn’t put my health in the hands of a person sloppyly putting together my wheel.  I want someone skilled to put together my wheel and the wires to stay put when I ride. Not vibrate around and have a chance of failure down the road when it has vibrated enough to fail.  

I agree that looking inside Gotway wheels is not a lovely surprise for someone like me who may not have been putting finer electronics together, but I have worked in assembling, manufacturing before re saddle to what I do now which happen to have a whole field of it's own inspecting quality and work in accordance to ISO1090 where human lives really are at risk if done wrong where load carrying structures, buildings could at very least in theory come down but surely at least partly brake apart. So yes absolutely, I want Gotway to start doing something about it and even if a little nicer drawn wiring would not necessarily make all the difference from a safety point of view, sure it could say something about overall quality?

There's this Canadian on YouTube I like to watch, yes my humor is pretty bad but channel is called AvE I think?  However I disagree about Yukiwa making better chucks than Röhm hehehe, part informative/part fun, it's entertainment while informative on a easy level but it's of course not EUC in the end of the day.

 

He disassemble (and more often than not reassemble again lol) tools and go through quality of all individual components making that tool up, heck even down to marks from molds injecting the plastics and weal point in it and I am pretty certain he and other like him would just ohh no disassembling any wheel no matter what name they carry cause it is that bad compared to some other industries in general but I suppose cause the still somewhat small niche compared to for ex Makita tools being a giant compared to all EUC manufacturers put together and a different type of quality control and standards.

If that's it I suppose we should not ride any of these wheels, Gotway at least put a ton of that silicon/construction glue whatever is it (the white goo) all over the connectors to keep them  in their place, even if that makes it look worse hahaha..  Seriously, I can only speak for my ACM and I have no rattling wires, perhaps I will on the MSX once arriving time will tell but no matter what I ride I will always get these sudden feeling of "what I am doing, this is dangerous" rolling down a street, start thinking what would happen if motor cut off here and so on, I enjoy riding and I am human and hence flawed so I just knock those thoughts away and keep going.  I think the best we can do at this point is to strap on as great protection as we can, be aware at all time and use the head as primary safety feature.

Some wheels may be safer than others, absolutely but also more limited instead via software and stuff I find annoying so no win/win in sight until they truly do go full redundant, I hope some of the big boy manufacturers will step in and start driving development forward but also realize riding around on a 1 wheeler in a city will never be 100% safe like all things in life but at least safer from technical point of view is better.

[meepmeepmayer]

4 hours ago, Xoltri said:

The tilt back speed doesn't automatically reduce with battery level like it does with the KS wheels.  Just the 3rd alarm does.

If it's like with the older GWs, tiltback is tiltback (you set it at any fixed speed you like, or disable it), but there's a separate low battery tiltback that starts at 5% (or so) . So ride your wheel down from one to two to three battery beeps and you'll see it at the bitter end. It's basically the thing that throws you off when even walking speed would be too fast.

So there's no "third alarm tiltback" that comes with the third alarm.

[Rubyuni]

I came here trying to justify buying the msx. I think it's safer than my Tesla because it has 19 inches of wheel. 
Now I need to justify waiting for the 100v version. With the 100v I can get out more easily from the irregularities of the terrain haha. 

The reality is that I want more speed and power 

[Lutalo]

10 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

P.s. I forgot to also mention the obvious, that Gotway will beep at you when the 80-percent threshold is crossed, but you can ignore the beep and push on. KingSong tilts-back which you can't ignore.

Ok, I see. Gotway gives you an opportunity to prove that you are a mature adult, while Kingsong assumes a more intrusive parental role. 

I think that I can see both sides of that equation. Clearly, Gotway has a more customer-centric approach than does Kingsong and complies with customer demands by giving them exactly what they want, i.e., more control and unbridled pleasure by continuously pushing the limits of wheel performance and capability; this is good for an emerging industry. It also explains why Gotway customers seem (at least to me) to have comparatively lower risk coefficients in relation to this technology; meaning specifically, GW buyers seem less deterred by safety and QC concerns than those who have not adopted the brand for those same reasons.

I suspect that Kingsong on the other hand, more deliberately attempts to shoulder the sustainability burden for the whole emerging industry.

The preoccupation with proactively diffusing any potential regulatory backlash arising from catastrophic safety events is imbedded in the company strategy, and reflected in the parental development approach and more intrusive features on the safety aspects of their wheels; literally trying to anticipate and answer in advance any questions regulators might ask as the wheels proliferate.

The parental approach they take with protecting an emerging industry, theoretically constrains Kingsong and it's customers somewhat in the realm of unbridled pleasure; KS wheels tend to be a bit more repressed than GW wheels ??, but their strategy provides the benefit of Kingsong's OCD in manufacturing QCM; this is also good for an emerging industry.

Both approaches have pros and cons and many customers from which to choose that appreciate the respective approaches of both GW and KS. It enriches the market with competition and a variety of exciting products. Down-range, and with time perhaps the environmental influences of regulators and customers will converge to cause both companies to adapt their respective strategies in a manner that strikes the harmonious chords that both allow the EUC industry to evolve, and dazzle buyers with the richness and variety of quality choices; perhaps not. Time will eventually, and most certainly make history of what is yet to become.

[Lutalo]

5 hours ago, Electroman said:

I am pretty certain he and other like him would just ohh no disassembling any wheel no matter what name they carry cause it is that bad compared to some other industries in general but I suppose cause the still somewhat small niche compared to for ex Makita tools being a giant compared to all EUC manufacturers put together and a different type of quality control and standards.

Maybe, but I just watched a KS 18L disassembly video. The interior construction and design of an 18L looks pretty impressive to my eye. The design of these wheels in general is so basic; battery, motherboard, motorized wheel that it shouldn't be difficult for any manufacturer to thoughtfully put it together in a way that impresses anyone who can appreciate the technology and context of what they are going to see.

[Lutalo]

10 hours ago, novazeus said:

it would be a dull world if everything was as safe as possible. they’d be no liter bikes, only harleys. 

they scrape those liter bike boys off the highways a lot more frequently than the old harley crowd. 

nothing wrong with the liter bikes.

ps i’m writing this as i hear the wail of sirens on the 14 lanes of interstate that is my eastern border for an 8/10th of a mile and dammit, i hear the coyotes, thought those sob’s had left.

Takes all kinds to create what we call an industry. By the way, I sold my 2003 Suzuki Hyabusa (Intake, Akropovic Titanium exhaust, and Power commander III upgrades) last summer, and patiently waiting for the next (3rd) gen of the King of Liter bikes.?

[Unventor]

On 7/1/2018 at 5:20 AM, ndmcc said:

It’s actually the opposite, TFU, I was really wanting someone to tell me that the MSX is just as safe as any other wheel! You’re right, I should have put a “very high” or something next to safety, because that’s really what initially kept me from going with the MSX. I wasn’t exactly sure how justified the concerns about Gotway’s safety on here actually were, and I wanted to make sure the wheel I would be likely to own for a long time before upgrading again wouldn’t start having reliability or safety issues that something like the 18L wouldn’t. My actions still need mod approval since I’m a newbie here on the forum, but as you’ll be able to see once my comments become approved, I’ve echoed this point to the other commenters here as well. Don’t get me wrong, the 18L is an awesome wheel, but you’re right. I should have seen from the beginning that the choice was obvious, but I wanted to check with people who know what they’re talking about on here before pulling the trigger. Thanks for your insight!

IMHO I don't believe any at this point in time can give you that answer. Only time can tell....

What may look at improvement on paper or in specifications  can just as easy be let down in a practical user environment. Just look at people's feedback about V10f. If Inmotion can resolve this and how fast, to me it is putting me off choosing the V10f. 

So right now KS18L seems to match my wish/want list best as QA and safety history holds a high position on my list. I want reliability and super high top speed is not important as long it can does 30-40kph sustained. Since I don't have a national (local) dealer, hanging to ship a EUC for service is a very big deal breaker in my eyes.

I want my EUC between my feets not in postal transit....it takes long time to prove QA if you didn't prioritise this as a manufacturer. 

[novazeus]

 

13 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

Takes all kinds to create what we call an industry. By the way, I sold my 2003 Suzuki Hyabusa (Intake, Akropovic Titanium exhaust, and Power commander III upgrades) last summer, and patiently waiting for the next (3rd) gen of the King of Liter bikes.?

u know what i mean. 

i survived 6000 miles on this. not my favorite ride but fun to look at.

[Lutalo]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

 

u know what i mean. 

i survived 6000 miles on this. not my favorite ride but fun to look at.

?? very nice bike. Reminds me of a B King, Suzuki's street fighter version of the Busa. Is that what it is?

[Lutalo]

11 hours ago, ndmcc said:

@eddiemoy, it sounds like some of those cutouts were random but some were due to nearly exceeding the capabilities of the wheels. I may be wrong though. Those seem like pretty serious consequences! When I had my cutout (an unfortunately large pothole caused the wheel to have to accelerate too fast to catch me, it cut out since I was already close to top speed at ~18mph) I sort of just fell forward with my wrist-guarded hands out in front and went into a slip-and-slide pose and slid it out for a few seconds while I watched my wheel tumble away... The worst that happened was some road rash, most of which could have been avoided by higher quality elbow and knee pads. Was I just lucky to have not had a worse fall? It seems like every fall on electric vehicles I’ve had (hoverboards, etc) have ended with me falling forwards and sliding it out with my wrist guards taking the majority of the stress and damage from grinding against the road.

When my MSX arrives likely sometime in August (according to Jason), I’ll definitely be imposing some limits right out of the box, specifically tilt back, to reduce the possibility of a cut out as much as possible. Also, current Gotway owners, does the tilt back speed automatically come down at lower battery percentages like it does on KS wheels, or does it stay at the speed you set it at with only the third alarm speed coming down?

The very same thing happened a couple of months ago to me downtown DC on my KS 18 with tons of onlookers; embarrassing. 

Some very fine honeys were watching me glide, so I ignored the beeps to sort of strut my capabilities for the ladies. Bad decision for which I paid with humiliation and embarrassment, but at least no injuries as I was well-padded. Can't blame Kingsong for that sort of stupidity.