MSuper X vs. KS18L: Has Gotway become 'safe enough'?

[Electroman]

I don't get the top heavy argument to be honest, yes turn it off and it's noticeable right away, but as long as balanced?

Perhaps again my English limited me and I failed to understand the argument, at very least it's nothing that I feel get in the way in any way shape or form, make a car top heavy and try to go fast around a bend and it is a totally different story all together and there you can clearly feel the negative effect, the again I don't have the experience from riding that many wheels so? I dare to claim though I would not swap my MSX for either a KS18L or even the Z10 as is now, but again I'm a nerdy speed freak and already want more than the MSX can offer so no wonder there, Z10 is still interesting but as a secondary wheel and for other reasons than just speed + it's a looker imho where I find the MSX just a way Gotway'ish and the KS18L too anon for me, not that looks is everything for wheel to me though.

Safety features would be welcome for sure, especially since speed keep going up. MSX to me felt anything but nimble first half a day (no earlier experience of 18" class), now however it give me everything I was afraid of before pulling the trigger, quite amazed how tight you can turn this thing and what you can do with it, I suppose it's a lot down to just adjusting the style and getting better riding it, allow ones imagination to flow and keep training? My ACM now feels flimsy to me, perhaps also a readjusting period is required after not using it?

I must try turns and see if mine is dipping, I 100% recognize the behavior from the ACM but never thought about it on the MSX, not even noticed it which is a bit strange I think I ride it quite  lot every day, must test tomorrow and keep it in mind.

[Lutalo]

2 hours ago, Electroman said:

I don't get the top heavy argument to be honest, yes turn it off and it's noticeable right away, but as long as balanced?

Perhaps again my English limited me and I failed to understand the argument, at very least it's nothing that I feel get in the way in any way shape or form, make a car top heavy and try to go fast around a bend and it is a totally different story all together and there you can clearly feel the negative effect, the again I don't have the experience from riding that many wheels so? I dare to claim though I would not swap my MSX for either a KS18L or even the Z10 as is now, but again I'm a nerdy speed freak and already want more than the MSX can offer so no wonder there, Z10 is still interesting but as a secondary wheel and for other reasons than just speed + it's a looker imho where I find the MSX just a way Gotway'ish and the KS18L too anon for me, not that looks is everything for wheel to me though.

Safety features would be welcome for sure, especially since speed keep going up. MSX to me felt anything but nimble first half a day (no earlier experience of 18" class), now however it give me everything I was afraid of before pulling the trigger, quite amazed how tight you can turn this thing and what you can do with it, I suppose it's a lot down to just adjusting the style and getting better riding it, allow ones imagination to flow and keep training? My ACM now feels flimsy to me, perhaps also a readjusting period is required after not using it?

I must try turns and see if mine is dipping, I 100% recognize the behavior from the ACM but never thought about it on the MSX, not even noticed it which is a bit strange I think I ride it quite  lot every day, must test tomorrow and keep it in mind.

The MSX is a solid wheel package to be sure. In terms of riding, we riders tend to grow accustomed to the dynamics of what we like to ride. When we get better and become experts at managing the dynamics of the specific wheel we like to ride it can even begin to feel nimble; but, as the little Buddhist Kid said in the "Matrix" movie - it's not the spoon that's bending. ?

Design

For me the sleek "anonymous" beauty of the 18L in the city, on public transportation, in buildings, and various other places to which I commute around DC is more attractive to me because It feels more camoflauged - it fits in well. It clicks. One man's "too anonymous" is another man's "sleek, refined beauty". 

To be Anonymous or Not to be Anonymous - that is the question

Washingtonians do not seem overly fazed or moved by much outside their busy schedules, but when I am riding around the touristy sections of DC, waiting at bus stops, or on the subway platforms I get plenty of attention and inquiries about the wheel. Sometimes joggers and hikers that pass on trails will say something like: "hey, that's a very cool ride man."

Although I am sure that we all get our share of inquiries and eyeballs, I imagine that Gotway riders, or "Country Boy (Z10)" riders ? in the DMV are probably having a similar experience to mine riding around the city; as far as attention goes.

Trolley handle

KS, IMHO has the best functional handle offered on any wheel. It's stable and it works very well for trolleying. Quite Frankly, with the reinforced handle that I received from EWheels, I am at a loss to think of anything they could do to improve the handle that wouldn't take up even more space or add more weight; but, nor am I an engineer.  I would be a very satisfied customer to find this assessment of the handle in error. 

Wheel Lockup

Wheel lock while trolleying: KS has probably discovered that the problem is not firmware related,  but can be avoided with firmware adaptations - hence,  v1.11. I think it is a clever adaptation, because it will tell them how ubiquitous the problem and which wheels are affected without the riders having to suffer with a disabled wheel while they wait for another control board.

Conclusion

The final thing that I want to say about the 18L is important because it speaks to the superb design of the wheel package. I did not have an adjustment period with this wheel - Zero adjustment period. I just got on it and rode off. It felt like I had been riding it for years. I did not have to add or subtract anything to make it more comfortable or improve its design - it worked perfectly as is. To this day I have changed nothing on my wheel; nor is there a need or desire to do so.

[EZhel]

8 hours ago, Lutalo said:

on't know if you have ever tried the 18L, but you should if you haven't.

Yea I own both. 18L is better for errands, when you need to go inside of buildings at some point. For long rides, MSX is the best currently.

Spoiler

 

 

p.s. Thanks. Yep attention follows you everywhere, people are both amazed and waiting for you to crash hilariously the next second.

KS18L lockup happened to me, wheel just halts and you drop it, then it reboots with latest firmware. Not a pleasant thing, but not a dangerous issue anymore either.

[Lutalo]

14 minutes ago, EZhel said:

Yea I own both. 18L is better for errands, when you need to go inside of buildings at some point. For long rides, MSX is the best currently.

I Agree. The MSX is the only game in town at the moment if you need more range than the 18L provides. Dude. Nice photo. You're very lucky to own the two baddest wheels on the market right now - that's what's up man        ???

[mrelwood]

6 hours ago, Electroman said:

I don't get the top heavy argument

Me neither, to me it doesn’t ride any more top-heavy than the 16S. Could be because I’m a tall guy (193cm, 91kg).

6 hours ago, Electroman said:

MSX to me felt anything but nimble first half a day

I feel the balance between reviewing a wheel’s nimbleness and stability is always way off. Yes, it takes a bit more work to turn the MSX 180• in a 3 feet width, but everything else we do on these wheels is hugely affected by the stability of a 18”, including safety, as soon as we go past walking speed. Actually the MSX is more calm to balance with even below walking speeds. This must be a big-small guy thing as well.

If the rumoured 18XL had been available in the summer, I think I’d chosen that over the MSX. But the first thing would’ve been to try and install a 3” tire. How and where I ride, it is that important for me.

[FlyboyEUC]

Now that the 18XL has been out for a while, how do that and the MSX compare? On Ewheels it says there have been zero defects on the MSX and 2% on the 18L/XL? 

I've noticed that many people open up the MSX insides and make mods/inspect gotways quality, would it be safe saying that MSX is the ever customizable PC and the KS 18XL is more of a Mac (meaning you get what you get)?

[Lutalo]

8 hours ago, Flyboy10 said:

On Ewheels it says there have been zero defects on the MSX and 2% on the 18L/XL? 

The XL is close (produced), but not out (shipped to customers) yet. Yes it does say 2%, but it is all related to the 18L, as those metrics could not apply to the unavailable XL. Still, 2% is a very low defect rate. I think that the rate refers directly to control boards (lift sensor trolley lockup). 

On the reliability/wear curve, new tech tends to have a higher failure rate,  but that rate is also accompanied by a sharp decline in failure rates throughout early life. Failure rates then stabilize and become more predictable; again, increasing Sharply as the product experiences wear/age-induced decline. 

Each time new a new feature is added it begins anew its journey along the theoretical wear curve. If the feature substantially impacts overall product functioning, failure rates can temporarily increase from malfunctions related to the interaction between the carry-over and new tech.

This is more an engineering concept, but I recall it being sometimes applied to business frameworks in a limited way during my grad school years. 

Interestingly, KS has not found a cause (to my knowledge) for the trolley lockup. They have however, temporarily (assumption) covered the wound with a bandage that mitigates the catastrophic outcomes that accompany the malfunction. I wonder if they have figured this out with the XL.  We will soon see. 

[ED209]

47 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

Interestingly, KS has not found a cause (to my knowledge) for the trolley lockup. They have however, temporarily (assumption) covered the wound with a bandage that mitigates the catastrophic outcomes that accompany the malfunction. I wonder if they have figured this out with the XL.  We will soon see.

I want to purchase the 18L very badly. This is my main concern. I tend to lift my wheels alot, I worry that the handle will come apart. The extra weight of 18XL may add even more stress to the handle. If this issue isn't resolved, I may end up choosing the 18s.

I know the the 18L is more nimble than the 18s. What I want to know is if the 2000w motor really pulls harder than the 1500w?? 

[Lutalo]

5 hours ago, Edddeus said:

I want to purchase the 18L very badly. This is my main concern. I tend to lift my wheels alot, I worry that the handle will come apart. The extra weight of 18XL may add even more stress to the handle. If this issue isn't resolved, I may end up choosing the 18s.

I know the the 18L is more nimble than the 18s. What I want to know is if the 2000w motor really pulls harder than the 1500w?? 

I currently have the 18L with the 3rd (black) handle. This handle works better and is stronger than the first two iterations. I know because I have blown through the two previous versions.

You may know this already,  but when you lift the wheel, the trolley should be fully retracted. I would not advise lifting with it extended; it's not designed to be lifted this way. When you lift the wheel properly the black handle will not fail you. It will handle the weight of the L and the XL quite easily; you will struggle much more than the handle when toting the wheel . You will be missing out on an awesome wheel if you choose the 18S because of the handle.

The only reason that I can imagine choosing the 18S over the 18L/XL is because you are committed to sitting down on long rides. If seated riding is your bag, cool 👍.

I have two 18A's (future S conversion projects). Great wheels. I love the ride. I learned how to ride on those wheels, but I think the L is a next level wheel by comparison. 

In terms of pulling harder, the L is the superior performer. However, that does not make it the best choice if you like seated riding enough to make it a part of your choice criteria. The 18S is an excellent performer; especially the extended range 1360/1680wh versions. One must consider wheel capability as well as intended use. If you think that you would like to go for long seated rides then buy the S. For any other reason the L is better.