New to the game, what should i buy?

[Alex_from_NZ]

Hi everyone,

Im starting a new job in a few weeks that will mean i need to commute around 3km each way from the bus to my workplace.  It is rather flat ground, but im always running late and hate physically running.  Soooo, im looking to get some kind of transportation to get me there and back each day.

My two options im looking at are..

https://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=1679177134

or

https://www.trademe.co.nz/toys-models/vehicle-toys/other/listing-1676116365.htm?rsqid=ddb91c8f84ad4eb399abe9ee6e5ad8c4

 

I am a little confused though, as they seem pretty much identical.  One looks like it is the Chinese OEM version (the cheaper one) and the other looks like the same thing but with a different handle, higher weight limit and slightly longer range.  Is this pretty much the crux of it?

As i mentioned, its only about 3km each way and over pretty flat ground.  Is important i can ride in rain or shine though..

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

Alex from New Zealand.

[Keith]

4 hours ago, Alex_from_NZ said:

https://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=1679177134

Alex, welcome to the forum.

i, and I suspect everyone else, cannot access those links. I can reach the Trade me website OK if I search for it (   https://www.trademe.co.nz/) but your links don’t work, even if I just paste the  https://www.trademe.co.nz/ of your link it doesn’t work - can you see the difference - my link works and has automatically turned into a link yours hasn’t, you have pasted them badly and it looks like there are hidden characters in them. It therefore isn’t possible to actually see what you are looking at. 

Please take a look at the very many other posts that are asking the same questions as you have missed giving us the important facts, to save repeating ourselves see here for example. Regardless of how many wheels it’s got the questions are the same.

 

Why do you want a two wheeled device, they are much less capable and much more trouble to carry on public transport than an Electric Unicycle and you will soon find it way too slow. It takes no more than a couple of days practice to ride an EUC, unless you really have no natural balance at all and over any sort of rough terrain, even grass, a mini will actually be harder to ride then an EUC. I was 60 when I learned to ride.

Do not believe the range of any device, about half what they say is nearer the truth - the Chinese seem to test with a small trained chimpanzee to get the range they say.

i suspect you are actually looking at different versions of the Ninebot Mini see here perhaps:http://segway.com.sg/2017/10/18/minilite-vs-minipro-vs-miniplus/

Edit: just found this Segway New Zealand link:https://segwaynz.wordpress.com/2016/08/01/why-kiwis-should-buy-the-segway-minipro-and-not-the-xiaomininebot-mini/ 

[jojo33]

Hello @Alex_from_NZ  

i convert yours prices for see if are honest, yours prices are good, they correspond to the prices practiced in the world

Your first link is a Ninebot Mini N3M240  (i have one) you can ride 22km but you must always remove 5/6 km depending on the speed of the weight and the ground, and the outside temperature , cruising speed around 17kmh/18kmh decreases with the level of the battery 

The second link is the Ninebot Mini Pro, you can ride 30km,you must always remove 5/6 km depending on the speed of the weight and the ground, and the outside temperature,   cruising speed around 17kmh/18kmh decreases with the level of the battery

you can also watch the kickscooter that has a speed higher than 25kmh, (Segway Ninebot Xiaomi Mijia M365/ES1/ES2 or other brand)

 

On the other hand:
you must be vigilant, even if the photos are those of the original models, it may be, given the prices, that they are clones, fake models.
the first solution is to download the application segway ninebot, and to connect with the application the device, if the data on the battery or on the device do not appear, it is a clone / fake

 

https://segwaynz.wordpress.com/

https://www.u-buy.co.nz/search/?q=segway

 

[Alex_from_NZ]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the answers!  Sorry those links didnt work for you Keith, i have included two further links below which should work.

TradeMe - Ninebot Mini Mini

TradeMe - Mini Pro Segway

That link you provided from the NZ Segway distributor was interesting, although read a bit like a dealer trying to scare people into his products.  We have quite strong consumer protection laws here in NZ, so a bit of what he was suggesting around service and warrenty is a bit fake.  The seller must by law provide these things (although it can be a pain in the butt with smaller sellers or parallel importers).  His other points, around the weight is not applicable to me as i am only 74kgs and 6ft.  I will also only be going less than 10km at a time.  I will only be riding on pavement or roads and wont be taking it offroad around where i live (have a mountain bike and a border collie to pull me for that lol).  I am 35 and with the exception of a bad foot which makes walking long distances uncomfortable i am fit, so no worries about lifting it or carrying either.

I am more concerned about the functionality of the devices themselves.  Will both perform relatively the same? (not worried about the small speed difference) Will both climb similar grade hills? Can i ride both in the rain and through small puddles on my way to work? Will i regret getting the cheaper version?

I am also a little perplexed as the second link to the supposed Segway MiniPro has a spec sheet that says 350 watt motors, however everything i have read suggests they should only be 400watt motors in the pro versions?  Is this correct?  Am i looking at a clone or knock-off based on this difference?  It certainly looks like the MiniPro (and not the Ninebot Mini) with the telescoping knee stick etc..  Can anyone offer any suggestions on this point?  I have asked the seller, but no reply as yet.

Lastly, i have discounted the kickscooters as i would prefer to be hand-free when riding and frankly i have always thought they were a bit uncool comparitivly.  I also discounted the EUC as i dont want to dismount all the time when i come to a crossing or simular. In my country we are allowed to ride on footpaths and in cycle lanes so i will often have to slow right down or stop so the 2 wheelers looked the way to go.  Also, if i am being honest i think they look cooler - but thats just personal opinion of course!!

Last bit of info, i will be using it 90% for commuting to and from work and the bus stop.  Occasionally taking the dog for a walk on the footpaths when the local park is too muddy or boosting it down to the shops when i dont want to drive.  Holding the lead occasionally the lead will go tight as the dog stops, or tries to go faster than me.  Not a hard tug but i thought this would be more manageable on two wheels vs one also..  Might be just as bad on both to be honest though haha.

Thank you again,

Alex from New Zealand

[Alex_from_NZ]

Update, it appears the second one labelled as segway mini Pro is actually a clone. Disappointing, seems for a legit version I'm looking at around $1500. Which is more than I willing to part with at this stage. 

[jojo33]

12 hours ago, Alex_from_NZ said:

i am only 74kgs and 6ft. 

it's ok dont worry

12 hours ago, Alex_from_NZ said:

with the exception of a bad foot which makes walking long distances uncomfortable

care, your feets must be plane on the pads, because sensors are under the pad (circle+joystick), sometimes it's hurts dont move feets fingers, on a long ride (me i have allux valgus and after riding 30 minutes it's hard, i need walk a little )

for sidewalks and puddles attention, no more than 4cm in height and depth, the axle of the motor-wheel is not waterproof, so it does not make the water gets into it

Mini pro is 2x400w

Mini is 2x350

 

 

 

[Alex_from_NZ]

Further update, I am now looking at a second hand mini Pro. Battery details via the app look good I think.. 

 

[jojo33]

1 minute ago, Alex_from_NZ said:

Further update, I am now looking at a second hand mini Pro. Battery details via the app look good I think.. 

 

this is good, it's an original, need to see other data about the mini for be sure it's not a mini with a mini pro battery

 

[jojo33]

for offroad ride mini is good, only originals tires 10" are bad quality and need replace by offroad tires, a little more larger 11"

[Alex_from_NZ]

37 minutes ago, jojo33 said:

this is good, it's an original, need to see other data about the mini for be sure it's not a mini with a mini pro battery

 

Hi jojo33, 

Thank you for your replies, I really appreciate it. I am thinking I will get this one now, its 2/3 the cost of brand new and only has a few miles on it according to the seller. Also purchased from authorised nz segway dealer so I feel happier this is a legitimate ninebot segway mini Pro and not a clone. 

Here is the link to the advertisement if you were interested. 

TradeMe minipro

The only downside is it does not come with a warranty as it is second hand, but I can't justify another $550 for a 12 month warranty for a new one so this looks good. 

In regards to the tires I would like to find a set of 11" off road tyres eventually, they look very cool! 

Having read the other thread regarding firmware version, does the screenshot above indicate this is using the older firmware with the higher speed limits? 

Thank you again! 

Alex

[jojo33]

4 minutes ago, Alex_from_NZ said:

with a warranty

you know, segway official warranty it's only 90 days for battery and charger and 180 days for the body parts

you can find in this section all about tires , issues, (please check screws steering bar and steering parts, check the state of the bodyframe/chassis please), review, and into my blog you have all about parts and repair, tutorials etc videos, here you can find interesting topics about offroad tires, how to mount (it's hard but do it)

 

what is your firmware version?

ask to your seller if the mini is not locked with a personal code, 

[jojo33]

Ok install segway, app, create a new account, when your are in front of the mini connect it and see mileage, basic information battery information if all data appears it's an original, if miss one data , take care

[jojo33]

dont worry because for export mini clone to NZ it's very hard, not impossible but hard

[Alex_from_NZ]

Sorry jojo33, I couldn't reply earlier as seems I hit my post limit for the day. 

Glad to tell you I just picked up my new MiniPro. The owner had the original receipt, box and everything, and he was very nice. 

The app shows he has done 32kms on it, and he says he never reset it. The condition would seem to suggest he is telling the truth also, it's in very nice condition. 

The app is asking me to update the firmware, currently on 1.31 I think from memory (is charging in the garage atm). Is this advisable? 

I hopped on it for the first time when I got home, it's very easy to use. I was going to reset it to go through the 1km limit while I learned how to use it, but don't think I need to now. Went for 3.3kms up and down the street already

Thank you again for all your help! 

Alex

[Alex_from_NZ]

Looks like I got the firmware wrong. It's asking me to update, but I'm on 1.4.0 already..? Anyone know what the update is? 

Also, is my speed being restricted because I keep beeping it? I noticed the limit dropped down while I was riding to 16.2kph? 

Thanks again! 

[jojo33]

12 hours ago, Alex_from_NZ said:

it? I noticed the limit dropped down while I was riding to 16.2kph

left 12km in remaining mileage, it's normal, battery capacity and speed decrease both

12 hours ago, Alex_from_NZ said:

Anyone know what the update is? 

post screenshot with your firmware version and bms version

wait someone with latest version of firmware for mini pro for know

[jojo33]

On 6/29/2018 at 4:08 PM, Alex_from_NZ said:

1.31

well if now

 

12 hours ago, Alex_from_NZ said:

1.4.0

and app advise you to upgrade, delete app cache, restart app

On 6/29/2018 at 4:08 PM, Alex_from_NZ said:

he says he never reset it

i suggest you reset it and begin a soft ride with, because sensors recorded old owner riding attitude, will be good to start with your own riding attitude (and weight  )

On 6/29/2018 at 4:08 PM, Alex_from_NZ said:

The app shows he has done 32kms

it's a good deal

12 hours ago, Alex_from_NZ said:

is my speed being restricted because I keep beeping it

yes, gradually you'll get used to driving but also to the state of your battery, you'll see, it's very sensitive, when you ride a long time, the battery decreases, and the phenomenon of tiltback begins but do not beep, you feel the Mini slightly lean back, do not force, reduce your pressure and find your speed, decreased to 16kmh
you can adjust this inclination of the tiltback "sensor settings"

[Alex_from_NZ]

Looks like it's an update to the apple connectivity, as I have an android I'm not too worried about this. Doesn't look like its firmware related. 

So after a restart the speed limit is now back to 18kph ? I must have been riding to hard and it punished me. 

[Philip]

Hello Alex, I am Philip Bendall from Segway New Zealand (and I was the author of the Segway NZ News article linked to above). I'm very pleased to see that you decided on purchasing a pre-owned, guaranteed genuine miniPRO that was originally sold by Segway NZ. You have purchased a N2M320 model with the larger battery pack, which is the only miniPRO model we sell in NZ. The mini and the miniPRO that were being advertised on TradeMe were grey market/parallel imported items that have no warranty or service support backed Segway NZ (and the miniPRO may well have been the N2M260 model with smaller battery). While NZ does have very strong consumer protection laws, I find it difficult to see how any parallel importer will be able to offer much in the way of real assistance to customers. Segway NZ offers 12 months warranty on all miniLITE, miniPRO (N2M320 only), miniPLUS and ES2 KickScooter. Warranty covers both the device and the battery. You are welcome to contact us anytime for support and replacement parts. Welcome to the Segway community here in New Zealand!

[jojo33]

8 hours ago, Philip said:

N2M260

 

8 hours ago, Philip said:

N2M320

N3M...?

 

[jojo33]

9 hours ago, Alex_from_NZ said:

speed limit is now back to 18kph

yes, battery level pass from remaining mileage 12 to 14, 

There are several ways to recharge your battery:
After a long ride, wait a little before recharging your battery
After recharging your battery, you have to wait a bit before ride

When the 5 charging bars are displayed, without blinking, but the charger LED is red
it means that the Mini is not 100% charged but what is interesting is that it helps the battery to keep good health

When the 5 bars are blinking, the charger is green, the battery is 100% charged
A precaution is necessary: do not go down a hill at high speed, even if the Mini is very safe at this level, there is a kinetic effect, and if you look at the application you will see that the capacity of your battery increases during the descent

 

Finally, you can ask @Philip if remove battery don't affect the warranty, why? If Segway NZ allows you, it's just for you to check the condition of the bodyframe, chassis, 

If the former owner had a very heavy weight or went down sidewalks too high, if he heard a crack, it may be that the chassis is cracked, we must still check this aspect, because for the moment, in case where the chassis is cracked, it is not supported by the warranty.

Also, you have to check the screws of the steering bar, especially under the sticker, there were cracks in the screws that were poorly targeted

 

 

[Alex_from_NZ]

Hi Philip, thank you for commenting! Great to hear from the distributor for New Zealand. I am glad I went with an original unit, it appears to have been hardly used (infact, I've doubled the claimed ks since I've owned it now) so looks like I got a good deal! Curious, have you, or do you know anyone around here, taking them on the AT buses? I start my new job next Monday and will be carrying it onboard to the city each day. Also, do you know what the laws are around riding in New Zealand? Footpaths, cycle ways, streets? And lastly, do you know of any local online segway communities? And your right, parallel importers are usually a nightmare to deal with as products have to be shipped to the county of purchase first for any service enquiries. The more argumentative half is a lawyer, who has recently gone through this with a parallel imported washing machine....! Not a fun experiance. Although as I purchased second hand privately I know i have no CGA rights, still feels better knowing I have the right product. 

Jojo33, your help has been amazing, thank you for the absolute litany of information! I will be checking the bodyframe this weekend (no warranty to worry about) and getting some 3d printed clamps to cover the 4 screws before any cracks appear. I will also be making the carry handle strap to make it easier to lift (find it awkward lifting from the bar) I saw in another one of your links! I am also looking to make a go pro mount with a horizontal bar included, the bar will be used to mount a high powered bike light that usually attaches to my bike handlebars and maybe a simple lcd speed display I can glance down at while riding. I really look forward to also getting some larger tyres, the A/T type tyres look very cool! And already I hope one one day in the future I can get another one so that I can play with the firmware and try get that 25kph from the Russian hack (I love going fast!) without compromising my daily driver mini. 

Thank you again! 

Alex

[jojo33]

On 7/2/2018 at 4:16 PM, Alex_from_NZ said:

I am also looking to make a go pro mount

All 3D printed

[Alex_from_NZ]

A 3d printed knee bar clamp that incorporated a Go-Pro mount, a small horizontal bar below the Go-Pro mount to mount a handlebar type bike light, and a space at the back to glue a small LCD screen would be my perfect world.  I have access to a 3d printer too (not mine), but dont know how to design myself yet.

[Philip]

Hi Alex, the big difficulty that parallel importers have is that they can't send a unit back to the original country they purchased their stock from because the capacity of the battery pack (measured in Watt-hours, a measure of the amount of energy stored in the pack) is far, far in excess of the amount permitted on planes. At best, they can sent it back by air freight with the battery pack removed and left behind in NZ. Regarding spare parts, well they can get parts by breaking down new machines apart, or buy some parts retail from US sites like More4Mini and import them...but at the end of the day neither of these options is going to be very attractive because of the costs. As the authorised Distributor in NZ we have plenty of spare parts in stock and the ability to swap out all parts, including replacing the main controller board.

There are many daily commuters who take their miniPROs on AT bus services. Simply stand it between your legs when you sit down, and it doesnt take up any room used by other passengers, so there is no reason for complaint. One example is a guy who lives in Whangarparoa who would need to take 3 different buses to get to his job, taking a total of 1:15 to 1:30 hours including the time to swap buses. But with his miniPRO he gets off the first bus after a 20 minute journey, then rides his miniPRO for 15 to 20 minutes to get to work. He's halved his journey time, and gained about 80 minutes of free time in his day (i.e. 40 min savings, both morning and night). He is so happy he purchased two more miniPROs for his wife and daughter to use on their daily journey to his daughter's school (which takes too long to walk, and in rush-hour traffic too slow to get from home to school by car). If you ever have any problems with AT, please let me know, so I can follow up with them directly. Some owners also take mini-Series and full-size PTs on Auckland trains and ferries.

With regards to riding rules, rather than go into great detail about right now, if you keep to the following guidelines you're extremely unlikely to encounter any objections:

1. when a footpath is present and useable, you MUST use it.

2. on a footpath you must ride in a considerate manner, and at a speed that is not dangerous to others. You must not unreasonably impede the movement/progress of others. Note how the onus is upon you to ride at a speed that is not dangerous, and this will depend entirely on context. If you were to be involved in an incident the implication will tend to fall on the side that you must have been travelling at a speed that was dangerous, so your are in a more difficult position to defend yourself (even if it really wasn't your fault, such as someone who didnt look and walked without warning into your oncoming direction of travel with no chance to take avoidance action).

3. ride on the extreme left side of the road only when there is no footpath (i.e. same area of the road as used by cyclists). You can keep using the road until there is a footpath again that you are reasonably able to access. Sometimes footpaths can immediately be accessed due to the present of a fence, for example.

4. on Shared Paths, use whichever half (pedestrian/bicycle) is safest for the other users who are nearby

5. with regards to bicycle lanes, I suggest it is probably ok to use the small number of divided bicycle lanes (i.e. lanes on the left side of the road where concrete curbs or blocks separate the lane from motor vehicles - such as Nelson Street and Quay Street). I do not suggest riding on any of the many bicycle lanes created by green paint applied to the left side of the roadway (partly because the law in this area can vary from council to council, and partly because it is a more dangerous place to be).

 

To answer Jojo33's question about why breaking the seal does not void the warranty in New Zealand, well here in NZ my business offers a 12 month warranty on both the miniPRO and its battery pack. My business wants to offer this level of warranty, so our customers can buy with confidence and feel looked after. This is one reason prices are a little higher in New Zealand. In some other countries the breaking of the seal extinguishes the warranty. But in New Zealand our consumer protection laws (Consumer Guarantees Act, Sale of Goods Act, Fair Trading Act) are very strong, and a seller cannot use a contract between seller and buyer to negate/nullify these laws (i.e. a seller cannot contract out of your obligations, especially not the Consumer Guarantees Act). It is my (non-expert) opinion that under our laws a seller cannot escape their legal obligations to protect a buyer's rights by relying on the argument that the seal has been broken. A buyer has the right to look inside a device that they own. However, if the seal was broken, and on inspection it is obvious the buyer has also damaged some of the parts inside (say, by trying to fix or replace components by themselves, or there was evidence of water damage, etc) then this would in most circumstances extinguish the warranty.

Finally, I agree that regularly peeling back the "warning" sticker located at the top of the bottom half of the knee-steer, to check that the 4 fasteners underneath are kept tight, is a very good idea. You might even want to add more Loctite/thread-locker to the threads if you do a lot of lifting or ride over a lot of very rough surfaces so they stay tight for longer. Adding a 3D-printed clamp that fits over this part (available on eBay/Amazon) is a useful accessory to buy and fit to your miniPRO.

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