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Only for the brave. Russian Hack for the Mini Pro

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On 3/16/2019 at 6:07 PM, AceMartian said:

@MRN76 Way don't you set up an address or a post office box so people can send you their motherboards and you can upload the firmware to them?

And charge a fee.

You can send board, I will flashed it and send it back. Shipping is paid by you.

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Hey Anj Villarruz, I'm interested in this too. I''m also in Toronto, Canada. Maybe we can team up on shipping or something. I can't personal message since I'm a new member. 

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7 hours ago, MRN76 said:

You can send board, I will flashed it and send it back. Shipping is paid by you.

Where do I send the motherboard and

how much does it cost?

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13 hours ago, 68bugboy said:

 

Where do I send the motherboard and

how much does it cost?

Fee must be sent to Russia.
Firmware costs 35$ USA.
Sending from Russia to your country costs ~ 40$ USA.

My contacts are listed on my site. This forum has personal messaging problems.

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@MRN76

 Shipping to russia 40$, 35$ Firmware, 40$ Shipping back. Wow :(

 

I know the question is irritating but do YOU think it is better waiting for the BT version a few more month for the MiniPro or should i going to sell my MiniPro and buy another, but successfully BT hacked Ninebot/Segway? :(

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Posted (edited)
Quote

 

On 1/17/2019 at 12:32 AM, Tommy Hilfaker said:

 

Edited by redpoint5

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Posted (edited)

I didn't mean to quote you, but this forum software is garbage and I can't figure out why it quoted you in the first place, or how to edit the post.

My comment was that I hope someone with time figures out how to hack this Segway and releases the firmware to the community for free.

 

Otherwise, we knew what the limitations of the Segway were when we purchased, and nobody owes us a mod. I don't get how people are so desperate to go 3 MPH faster. Leave 1 minute sooner if you aren't making your destination fast enough.

Edited by redpoint5

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30 minutes ago, redpoint5 said:

I don't get how people are so desperate to go 3 MPH faster. Leave 1 minute sooner if you aren't making your destination fast enough.

My use case for this is not to go faster actually. I despise the aggressive leanback and I find that a safety issue. I might be in the minority though. 

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I’m with JoshFink. I’m happy with the speed but the lean back is way too aggressive and I find it’s not comfortable to ride as your ankle still get sore trying to lean on the adjusted angle. It can be modulated to some degree when you get the hang of it but the device would be perfect without it. It’s too bad that feature is not enabled by default but able to be shut off, possibly with a disclaimer agree or something.

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Leanback is a safety issue, especially on the very steep roads (but within MiniPRO specifications) around my home.

I messed up installing the CPU that @MRN76 so kindly supplied, partly because I had soldered these CPUs so many times before that I didn't take enough care to protect the motor driver transistors which immediately blew because I had a couple of shorted CPU pins :crying: My mistake. But summer is nearly here, and I am thinking I really need to fix that pushback. Luckily @MRN76 has been keeping in contact, even though the news has not been good (I hope you are healing after that fall, you didn't give us an update when you got out of hospital).

For the new members, here is a link that @WEagle95 post last June-  describing what he had achieved at that point:

https://mimod.ru/en_US/swallowbot-firmware/

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On 3/22/2019 at 7:18 PM, redpoint5 said:

Otherwise, we knew what the limitations of the Segway were when we purchased, and nobody owes us a mod. I don't get how people are so desperate to go 3 MPH faster. Leave 1 minute sooner if you aren't making your destination fast enough.

Yeah, we knew the speed limit. But we did not knew that the real speed limit is at 16km/h instead of 18. We did not knew that the leanback is such a crap that my safety is in dangerous.

What i knew now: It is possible to fix that problem with this firmware and the speed would be much higher with my larger tires. So a good possibility to give that Ninebot a better experience :)

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Posted (edited)

Oh, I agree that leanback is annoying, but it isn't a safety issue. And sure, I'd like to go 3 MPH faster too.

Heck, the whole thing is pretty darn safe. I've spent hours racing it around my tiny apartment, and the only time I've wrecked is when I was drunk, it was dark outside, and I thought I was driving down the ramped portion of the sidewalk when in fact I drove off the curb at an angle.

Leanback is super annoying going up steep hills where I'm crawling along at 2 MPH. If leanback is causing pain, it sounds more like a rare medical condition than something that afflicts the majority of people. Not downplaying the need to eliminate a painful experience, but then it can all be avoided by not triggering leanback.

As I've mentioned already, this Segway is more of a toy; and safe for children. This was my gateway into personal electric vehicles, and I'm already looking for a used EUC that goes fast. $50 or more to go 3 MPH faster doesn't make sense when I can put that money towards a used EUC that goes 20 MPH faster.

Edited by redpoint5

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Redpoint5 if you read through this entire thread you’ll find dozens of comments saying people feel this feature isn’t safe. Although you don’t feel that way, you’re very much in the minority. Secondly, no it’s not a rare medical condition. It isn’t in any natural form of walking, running, cycling, jumping etc to have your ankles in this position when you are leaning forward for more than a very short period of time. Most of us just want this feature off and would enjoy a few extra mph. If you don’t, then don’t.

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6 hours ago, redpoint5 said:

Oh, I agree that leanback is annoying, but it isn't a safety issue. And sure, I'd like to go 3 MPH faster too.

 .. Not downplaying the need to eliminate a painful experience, but then it can all be avoided by not triggering leanback.

... As I've mentioned already, this Segway is more of a toy; and safe for children.

Great... Since leanback can be eliminated I will follow the procedure for doing so in the users manual. Oh, wait, there is nothing about how to control leanback in the user manual, in fact, there isn't really a users manual :crying:

On the hilly roads near my home, leanback is totally unpredictable. It apparently depends on the ambient temperature, the MiniPRO temperature, the battery charge, and many things not under a riders immediate control. @WEagle95 tells us that a rider is given 'de-merit points' by the firmware which also are used to determine when the machine decides to leanback.

As for the MiniPRO being a toy, well I bought mine at a time when it was being offered as a "Personal Transporter without the hazards and limitations of hoverboards". It has a 100Kg load rating (pretty big kid!). To this day I see nothing in Segway advertising about the MiniPRO being for kids only. Sure, Ninebot makes a model which is for kids, but it is extremely cut down from the MiniPRO which we are discussing here...

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Steve Green said:

Redpoint5 if you read through this entire thread you’ll find dozens of comments saying people feel this feature isn’t safe. Although you don’t feel that way, you’re very much in the minority. Secondly, no it’s not a rare medical condition. It isn’t in any natural form of walking, running, cycling, jumping etc to have your ankles in this position when you are leaning forward for more than a very short period of time. Most of us just want this feature off and would enjoy a few extra mph. If you don’t, then don’t.

There's no evidence of people being injured by leanback. Who here has had leanback throw them off and cause an injury significant enough to mention? If so-called dozens of people are fearful of leanback, then I'm happy to be the only one saying their fears are unfounded. We don't need to be hyperbolic when we describe something that annoys us. It's sufficient for someone to say they don't like leanback, but absurd to say the risk of injury is so great that it's imperative to eliminate the behavior.

As far as I know, you're the only one with ankle pain caused by leanback. I'm sure there are others, but that would be a minority of people. I've had a couple doezen people ride mine, and none have complained of even discomfort. Finally, I've already addressed that you can largely avoid leanback by not triggering it in the first place. I've got over 100 miles on mine now, and rarely trigger leanback because I'm familiar with it. If it caused me enough pain to complain about it on a forum, I'd probably be even more likely to avoid triggering the behavior.

 

17 hours ago, trevmar said:

there is nothing about how to control leanback in the user manual, in fact, there isn't really a users manual :crying:

To this day I see nothing in Segway advertising about the MiniPRO being for kids only. Sure, Ninebot makes a model which is for kids, but it is extremely cut down from the MiniPRO which we are discussing here...

Yeah, because a manual is how we really learn how to control things :rolleyes: I read a manual on how to fly a helicopter, jumped right in and took off :efeebb3acc:

Very rarely does controlling a vehicle have to do with knowing the exact parameters of everything. Instead, we learn from experience over time. If you're being surprised by leanback, that simply tells me you haven't put enough time on the unit to become familiar with it.

Finally, if you're relying on advertising to inform you of things, you're likely to be continuously disappointed with many things. It's fairly clear to me that children have more interest in this Segway than adults. In fact, I'm the only adult I've seen using it, and only the children are making comments that they "like my hoverboard".

I'm sure the thing is a legit commuting device for people that live in Manhattan and would otherwise walk. I happen to use mine in a utilitarian way to run to various local stores or scout out neighborhoods in my search for purchasing a home, but I doubt that's a typical use case.

I wish mine was much faster, but then there are EUCs that are, so there's no need.

Edited by redpoint5
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On 3/25/2019 at 6:54 PM, Steve Green said:

Redpoint5 if you read through this entire thread you’ll find dozens of comments saying people feel this feature isn’t safe. Although you don’t feel that way, you’re very much in the minority. Secondly, no it’s not a rare medical condition. It isn’t in any natural form of walking, running, cycling, jumping etc to have your ankles in this position when you are leaning forward for more than a very short period of time. Most of us just want this feature off and would enjoy a few extra mph. If you don’t, then don’t.

It’s much better with the latest Firmware. I have the Russian Firmware and there are plus’ to it. However the segways stock Firmware is very safe. The more you ride, the less you fall. One interesting observation is, my nephew hardly fell and he was going off of curbs ect. The younger you are the easier you adapt to the Segway. Kids hop on and start riding ... adults panic and fall on their ass.

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The latest official firmware has less leanback? I've been delaying installing it just in case it interferes with a possible hack in the future, which I'm willing to pay $20 for if it's a software hack. I was also concerned they might even apply more conservative riding limits.

If the latest firmware has less aggressive leanback, then I might be willing to risk updating.

I'd like to take my Segway off curbs, but I'm wondering if it's sturdy enough to do this regularly with a 200 lb rider without damaging it?

My dad fell trying to go backwards. I told him he's guaranteed to fall going backwards, and then he took it as a challenge. The controls feel opposite of natural when in reverse.

BTW- I read somewhere that the speed limit is 13 MPH in reverse, and that some people have swapped wires so they can ride it backwards naturally.

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I'm still on the original firmware on mine. 

As for riding backwards, if you did ride backwards would there still be the lean back? If so, wouldn't that lean you forward? That doesn't sound right.

I know when it's ini GoKart mode it actually is put in reverse as the forward motion. I wonder what the mechanism to put it in GoKart mode is? 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, JoshFink said:

I'm still on the original firmware on mine. 

As for riding backwards, if you did ride backwards would there still be the lean back? If so, wouldn't that lean you forward? That doesn't sound right.

The wheel does and cannot know which way around you are standing on it. One can drive it facing forward or backwards - and it always has the same tiltback behaviour. So if one drives backwards one will get a (relative to ones standing position) tilt forward.

Quote

I know when it's ini GoKart mode it actually is put in reverse as the forward motion. I wonder what the mechanism to put it in GoKart mode is? 

Sorry i know nothing about the go kart mode....

Edited by Chriull

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Chriull said:

The wheel does and cannot know which way around you are standing on it. One can drive it facing forward or backwards - and it always has the same tiltback behaviour. So if one drives backwards one will get a (relative to ones standing position) tilt forward.

True, but in the firmware lean back might be disabled in reverse. I honestly don't go that fast in reverse I would not have ever had it happen. 

If the GoKart runs in reverse mode AND reverse mode goes faster and does not do lean back than the solution might be to trigger GoKart mode for the MiniPro and it might solve some of the issues that are done in the firmware hack. Perhaps an application hack. 

100% speculation though. 

Edited by JoshFink

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I like this discussion. We need someone with time and motivation to explore this concept more.

I'll gladly experiment going in reverse as fast as I can and see if it leans forward, and report back here, or from the ER.

Let the hacking begin!

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the topic has been around, you can start here.

there are other topics that took off from this discovery.😊

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Posted (edited)

I noticed the behavior when I had zero battery left but needed to get a very shallow uphill home (I have trouble walking):

MiniPro wouldn’t go forward, it would tilt back immediately. Standing in reverse it went up the incline easily because the same tiltback behavior now increased the speed. Steering was a challenge though, already at 3km/h. So the tilt-back is always towards vehicle rear, no matter which way you are going.

Edited by mrelwood
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Posted (edited)

So what happens when you exceed the speed limit in reverse? Does it just fall on its face, or tilt forward? 16 MPH is even faster than the 13 in this hack.

I'm assuming no warnings are given when going in reverse either?

OK, I'll test the speed this afternoon in reverse. swapping inputs from the steering arm probably isn't too difficult. Probably easier than soldering 100 pins or whatever that chip has.

 

EDIT: I loaned mine out to my dad for the weekend, so I'll have to test reverse another time.

Edited by redpoint5

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