Video - King Song 14 inch 800 Watt hill climb by John Eucist - no beeps or tiltback triggered

[John Eucist]

Translation of the Cantonese heard in the video :
Kevin: "woah... wow shit! It's totally as if it's nothing (effortless)"
Lucian: "I'm already pushing it to the limit"
Kevin: "I already pushed mine a few times"

[breathsavers]

So is it good or bad that there's no beeps or tiltback? And what are the differences/benefits between this and the 500W KS14?

[John Eucist]

So is it good or bad that there's no beeps or tiltback? And what are the difference between this and the 500W KS14?

It does beep and tilt-back but I meant it didn't happen in this video.  The 800w is more powerful and faster than the 500w.  Edited title for clarification.

[esaj]

And what are the differences/benefits between this and the 500W KS14?

 

The 800w is more powerful and faster than the 500w.

This is what I though also, but having now ridden vee's 14" Gotway MCM2s and seeing the power-graph and values while riding (details here: http://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/889-more-data-ks-peak-power-hit-2400w/?do=findComment&comment=10224 ), I started to think... I've understood that the rating of the motor is pretty much just how much continuous / peak power it can handle, and it seems these are more or less guess-work anyway (even the max rating is probably a conservative value). The 14" Gotway is WAY more stable at around 20km/h on the hiking paths than my 16" Firewheel. The reason? Probably because the 680Wh MCM2s with 4 battery packs can give much more power than the 264Wh Firewheel with 2 packs. Like you can see from my notes on that post, the peaks are really high, I went up a really steep but short gravel hill, and the peak power hit 2.5kW, while staying constantly above 1.5kW, nearer to 2kW. And this is on a 500W rated motor.

I'd be interested to see a comparison with 500W and 800W 14" King Song, as long as they use the same amount of the batteries and same cells, to see if there really is any difference caused by the motor rating, or if the power is indeed mostly dependant on the battery pack amount and cell discharge capability, and the motor rating just tells how much power it can handle on the longer run (ie. it just won't burn as easily, but otherwise it's pretty much the same with same batteries).

[Jason McNeil]

I'd be interested to see a comparison with 500W and 800W 14" King Song, as long as they use the same amount of the batteries and same cells, to see if there really is any difference caused by the motor rating, 

I've now ridden about 500km on the 800W KS & 200km on the 500W, I can testify firsthand of the massive difference in power, subjectively over 2x more—was planning to get some data last week, but the weather has been turned dirty. John too has ridden the 500W version of the KS before & it doesn't hold a candle to this new rocket-ship. I'm shipping out a Wheel to customer in Finland when the next batch arrives. Do you live close to Helsinki? Perhaps I can put you in contact?  

[esaj]

I've now ridden about 500km on the 800W KS & 200km on the 500W, I can testify firsthand of the massive difference in power, subjectively over 2x more—was planning to get some data last week, but the weather has been turned dirty. John too has ridden the 500W version of the KS before & it doesn't hold a candle to this new rocket-ship. 

But did they have the same amount of battery packs & same cells (or at least cells rated with similar discharges)?   Also what occurred to me right now is that the KS firmware could be limiting power, Gotways are good for this type of testing in the sense that they at least seemingly let you ride it until "the end" (ie. until cut-off)   Was surprised at the amount of power you can push to a "500W rated" motor, as long as the mainboard lets you (and can take it without breaking) & batteries can give such high discharges.

 

I'm shipping out a Wheel to customer in Finland when the next batch arrives. Do you live close to Helsinki? Perhaps I can put you in contact?  

About 300km away, so probably no  

[Daan]

Thinking about it, I kinda agree with ‌@esaj; probably the capacity of the batteries, combined with being able to quickly deliver a lot of charge is probably (much) more important than the actual power rating of the motor. For example, having 2 smaller batteries in parallel may be better then one big one since the parallel pack can deliver more current.

I believe ‌@Jason McNeil though that for the particular setup of the King song that the 800W one feels much more powerful. Would be very interested to learn if that is truly due to the wheel or because of other factors like an updated main board that can handle higher amps.

[Jason McNeil]

Yeah, yeah, yeah same battery configuration 4p16s same cells; come on guys, we've been riding different Wheels long enough to know when the guts of machine are saying 'go faster'. Same opinion for everyone who has tried the 800W.

[Gimlet]

Surely we investigated that when we put the two 680wh eucs against each other. I'm sure there can't be much difference in the battery configuration of the mcmv2s+ and the KS. 

The acceleration between the two wasn't that different but the KS had power left to implement tilt back at higher speeds than the mcm could cope with.

I certainly know it can climb long steep hills at a higher speed, the mcm starts beeping continuously at really low speeds and needs to be nursed to avoid cut out whereas the KS continues pulling strongly until it succombs to low voltage double beep and tilt back.

[Daan]

‌@Jason McNeil:  perhaps it is indeed just motor wattage here -- so much for the theory

[Casey]

Really funny commentary.

[Cloud]

I had a chance to ride kingsong 500w for an hour and then have been riding my 800w for the last two weeks now. When i was riding 500 and 800w side by side,i didnt feel any difference in power or acceleration, but the difference really kicks in when you are trying steep slopes. 800 takes them and accelerates easily.

[Casey]

Thanks Cloud.  That is exactly what I needed to know.  I have a hill to climb each way too and from work, but it isn't Powell Street or anything of that sort.  I am now more comfortable with my purchase.  I will get into EUs with the 500, then graduate up later.  While the 500 is not a cheap entry into the market, it is more rational at this time.  Who knows what will be on the market in 12-18 months, but it should be a much more developed market with many more high quality and high performing machines.