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V10F vs KS18L?

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This might seem like strange question but anyway...

Do any have some facts on how V10f and KS18L holds up for a ride in the rain? 

To me it seems the KS18L trollybar might be a slight disadvantage in the aspect? 

Since I do not live in sunny San Diego I just can't help that a EUC that can handle a 10-30 min trip in rainfall as a strong sales pitch for a cruising wheel when a long ride with unpredictable weather conditions. I guess some UK or Norwegians might know here what I mean.?

Edited by Unventor

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On 6/13/2018 at 5:16 PM, that0n3guy said:

If Inmotion increased the top speed of the v10f to 30mph and changed the accel/breaking algorithm a little bit (a little faster off the start), would you still think the 18 beats it out?

 

If? Should've, could've, would've, but didn't.

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I just ordered my KS18L as my 2nd EUC purchase. My Inmotion V8 lagged just that little top speed and battery to keep e-bikes behind me. I am kinda sure I learn to live with small quirks...at least we have yet to the the overload issues in current firmware of V10f.

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13 hours ago, that0n3guy said:

@eddiemoy I know you just got your 18L... what are your initial thoughts on it vs the v10f?

Eddie posted a new video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EopMsNLEqNo and made some comments around that.

Here is an excerpt: "...18L, v10f, 16s. KS coming out with a 2kw motor and updated KS16S this year. Will kill the v10f and Tesla. When that wheel comes out I think I would prefer that new wheel because it is smaller and more portable than the 18L."

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28 minutes ago, Fastmike said:

KS coming out with a 2kw motor and updated KS16S this year.

@eddiemoy Is this confirmed? Sounds exciting. I hope it's as pretty as the 18L. 

Also on another youtube comment in comparison to the V10F you said 18L is not as heavy. Do you mean the riding feel? Does the 18L feel lighter when riding due to different placement of batteries? 18L is a bit heavier but differently balanced. 

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2 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

@eddiemoy Is this confirmed? Sounds exciting. I hope it's as pretty as the 18L. 

Also on another youtube comment in comparison to the V10F you said 18L is not as heavy. Do you mean the riding feel? Does the 18L feel lighter when riding due to different placement of batteries? 18L is a bit heavier but differently balanced. 

Having tried both wheels, KS18L feels heavier when carrying it, and feels less manoeuvrable as V10F.

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1 hour ago, UniVehje said:

@eddiemoy Is this confirmed? Sounds exciting. I hope it's as pretty as the 18L. 

Also on another youtube comment in comparison to the V10F you said 18L is not as heavy. Do you mean the riding feel? Does the 18L feel lighter when riding due to different placement of batteries? 18L is a bit heavier but differently balanced. 

Yes, it feels better I think because of the way they designed the batteries to sit along side the wheel instead of all on top.  It doesn’t have that too heavy feeling that I hate.  But once the wheel gets going it is less noticeable.  When I get more time on the wheels I’ll make a comparison.  Even though they are different sizes. 

The new 16” 2kw is confirmed, just speed isn’t yet.  They are still considering or working out the final speed of the wheel.  

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@that0n3Guy - What firmware are you using on your V10F? I have one one order, but was starting to wonder if I should switch to the KS18L. But after reading your comments, I might stick with the V10F. I don't need tremendous speed, I just want stability and power for hills, since my neighborhood has lots of steep hills.

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34 minutes ago, that0n3guy said:

Here is my previous observations: 

Had some more time to ride the 18L yesterday and today.   Here are some more thoughts:

  • 18L feels way lighter when riding, trolling and maneuvering it.  Its because v10f is top heavy (this is not to say this is a bad thing, just different).
  • Both apps kinda suck (inmotion and kingsong) and have connectivity issues on android.
  • The ability to adjust angle on the fly on the v10f very nice, having to do a full calibration on the 18l sucks.
  • v10f peddles... so comfy (its the squishy silicone that does it... not just the size)... but do need griptap if a lot of bumps.
  • The v10f is more fun to carve... 
  • the v10f feels more solid.   I wouldn't say its more stable, they are both very stable... but solid (i'm not sure how to describe it).   The ks18l does little things like my ks14c like has a forward lean when coming out of a tight turn quickly, the v10f doesn't do this (just differences in the algorithm).   
  • The peddle hardness on the v10f is higher than 18l, I'd say 18l is about 1/4 to 1/2 up from the softest v10f setting (peddle sensitivity).  
  • v10f is way easier to ride slow (like walking speed or slower)... no idea why.  Maybe I should put less air in my 18l and try it out.
  • the v10f seems like it has more acceleration after 5-10kph... but that might not be true.   It could just be it has a throatier noise.

My last observation as of now is that the v10f seems more fun to carve.   I very much like to carve (chooch back and fourth).  I think the v10f likes to go forward when moving at 18mph+ and provides some turning resistance.   This makes it so you can lean the outside leg against the pads and it will push back at you.   Example: if your carving fast left, your right leg pushes against the pad.   The makes a very smooth carvy feel.  I think this is because its more top heavy.    The 18l does not do this as much since its more maneuverable.   It turns with less effort.  The 18l feels like it steers left and right, the v10f feels like it carves left and right.   I'm guessing I just need more time on the 18l to get the feeling.    

 

Yes, the 18L is not top heavy like the V10F or GW Msuper.

The V10F is more powerful, just physics there, has smaller diameter wheel to rotate.  I'm sure if the wheel was 14", 2KW, would destroy the V10F.  

Going slow again is physics, has to do with the larger diameter wheel, ~19" vs ~17".  You will notice if you have a 14" it is even easier to go slow and on the Mten3 even easier.  Physics of how easy it is to twist your body to "catch" yourself.  

The V10F feeling solid, I agree, the 18L has a lot more creaking.  More like BMW vs Honda.  When BMW goes over bumps you get the satisfying thump of a german car instead of the clang of the Japanese car.  Just not the same.  I also think the tire material has lots to do with that feeling.  Maybe?

Pedals, personal preference here, I love the grip tape of the 18L, but I like the comfort of the silicone material of the V10F, I'm sure it contributes to how comfortable it is to ride longer distance and absorbing some of the bumps.  But in larger bumps, you feel like your feet move around more on the silicone material of the V10F.

Pedal hardness I didn't notice any difference.  I just feel it is easier to command the power.  For me the pedals stayed flat.  I'm in Experienced mode.  Maybe check what your are in?  Could be that the pedals are shorter contributing to the not as hard feeling?  It feels the same as the 18S.

More fun to carve on the V10F?  I think it has to do again with the tire material.  Feels more grippe for sure.

Didn't feel the pedal dip on the turns.  But I know what you are talking about since the 18S does this sometimes.  But in turns, it depends on how you take them.  same speed, speeding up, slowing down.  they are different.  

App for King Song is the worst.  The Inmotion app looks cool but there is a lot of lag.  I'm beginning to like Darkness Bot.

Over all I love the King Song 18L and prefer it over the V10F.  I need to figure out what tire that is on the V10F, if I can get it on the 18L it might make it greater.

The light sensor is definitely in the wrong place, design flaw.

 

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4 minutes ago, kjon12 said:

@that0n3Guy - What firmware are you using on your V10F? I have one one order, but was starting to wonder if I should switch to the KS18L. But after reading your comments, I might stick with the V10F. I don't need tremendous speed, I just want stability and power for hills, since my neighborhood has lots of steep hills.

I was able to hit the hills at about the same speed and same effort as the V10F which is amazing.  Definitely easier to hit the hills than my 18S on the 18L.  

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14 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

Yes, the 18L is not top heavy like the V10F or GW Msuper.

The V10F is more powerful, just physics there, has smaller diameter wheel to rotate.  I'm sure if the wheel was 14", 2KW, would destroy the V10F.  

Going slow again is physics, has to do with the larger diameter wheel, ~19" vs ~17".  You will notice if you have a 14" it is even easier to go slow and on the Mten3 even easier.  Physics of how easy it is to twist your body to "catch" yourself.  

The V10F feeling solid, I agree, the 18L has a lot more creaking.  More like BMW vs Honda.  When BMW goes over bumps you get the satisfying thump of a german car instead of the clang of the Japanese car.  Just not the same.  I also think the tire material has lots to do with that feeling.  Maybe?

Pedals, personal preference here, I love the grip tape of the 18L, but I like the comfort of the silicone material of the V10F, I'm sure it contributes to how comfortable it is to ride longer distance and absorbing some of the bumps.  But in larger bumps, you feel like your feet move around more on the silicone material of the V10F.

Pedal hardness I didn't notice any difference.  I just feel it is easier to command the power.  For me the pedals stayed flat.  I'm in Experienced mode.  Maybe check what your are in?  Could be that the pedals are shorter contributing to the not as hard feeling?  It feels the same as the 18S.

More fun to carve on the V10F?  I think it has to do again with the tire material.  Feels more grippe for sure.

Didn't feel the pedal dip on the turns.  But I know what you are talking about since the 18S does this sometimes.  But in turns, it depends on how you take them.  same speed, speeding up, slowing down.  they are different.  

App for King Song is the worst.  The Inmotion app looks cool but there is a lot of lag.  I'm beginning to like Darkness Bot.

Over all I love the King Song 18L and prefer it over the V10F.  I need to figure out what tire that is on the V10F, if I can get it on the 18L it might make it greater.

The light sensor is definitely in the wrong place, design flaw.

 

That reads like more negatives with the 18L, why do you prefer it? 

Do both wheels not use Kenda tyres?

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So all of those comments make me feel that there is not much difference between both wheels. Eddie looks more familiar with KS wheels so might prefer the KS18L feeling.

I believe that they are both great wheels! The only remaining 'grief' with the V10F, which still makes me hesitating, is the repeatidly overloads that people over 85-90Kgs experiment where other wheels do not have any issue!

If that is not a design issue, which will be catastrophic, InMotion should be able to resolve it quick via a new firmware. But I did not see any response on that problem from them as yet!

Edited by Fastmike

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26 minutes ago, Kael said:

Do both wheels not use Kenda tyres?

From the photos and videos I’ve seen, indeed both have the familiar Kenda tire. Just 2” taller on the 18L.

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31 minutes ago, Kael said:

That reads like more negatives with the 18L, why do you prefer it? 

Do both wheels not use Kenda tyres?

I like the way the 18L rides and the stance, grip tape.  for me it feels more secure.  There is a V to the pedals, minor but helps.  I like the trolley handle more on the KS, can't really beat a handle that is right in the middle.  18L feels more stable at high speed.  I was riding the limit for as long as I wanted.  The wheel just feels right to me.  Not as drastic as me going from ninebot to kingsong but it's there.

@Fastmike could be right that I'm just more comfortable with KS.  But there is something to a wheel that is designed correctly to ride like a proper sports car.  You know it when you are on it and driving it.  kind of like when you drive a porsche, it just makes you a better driver.  If you never driven a porsche you would be happy with a hyundai if that is the only thing you have ever driven.  don't know how to describe it.  I guess you have to try to test it in some group rides to know.  again, when i went from ninebot to king song it was like going from hyundai to porsche.  everything just felt right and it made me instantly a better rider.  learned quicker.  but that is maybe just my experience.

The tires are both Kenda, but hard to tell what they are made from.  For all I know they could be the same, but they don't feel the same.  Kind of like saying the tire is pirelli, but you don't know what is it, MS, all season, winter, just don't know.  All I can tell is the Inmotion is rated for 75kg, the KS is rated for 90kg otherwise they look the same, one is 16" the other is 18".  could be that is the only difference and that is what i'm feeling when I'm riding.  But I can't help but think since they are rated for different weight, it can't be as simple as just 16" vs 18".

 

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47 minutes ago, kjon12 said:

@that0n3Guy - What firmware are you using on your V10F? I have one one order, but was starting to wonder if I should switch to the KS18L. But after reading your comments, I might stick with the V10F. I don't need tremendous speed, I just want stability and power for hills, since my neighborhood has lots of steep hills.

I'm still running 1.1.6.  

44 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

The V10F is more powerful, just physics there, has smaller diameter wheel to rotate.  I'm sure if the wheel was 14", 2KW, would destroy the V10F.  

 

Thats not really true.    An 18" could be just as powerful as a 14", you just have to put the motor further out away from the rim center (http://blog.cambridgecoaching.com/physics-tutor-what-is-moment-and-how-do-you-calculate-it).   That said, I doubt most wheel makers are moving motors that far out as it would ad weight and motor cost (more copper).

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2 minutes ago, that0n3guy said:

I'm still running 1.1.6.  

Thats not really true.    An 18" could be just as powerful as a 14", you just have to put the motor further out away from the rim center (http://blog.cambridgecoaching.com/physics-tutor-what-is-moment-and-how-do-you-calculate-it).   That said, I doubt most wheel makers are moving motors that far out as it would ad weight and motor cost (more copper).

I think that is what i was trying to say.  they are both 2kw motors, but because the wheel is smaller on the V10F, it feels more powerful.  smaller wheels easier to turn with same amount of energy.  if they are both the same motors or course.  we don't know if one is built for more torque and the other built for more speed.  so there is that factor.

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5 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I think that is what i was trying to say.  they are both 2kw motors, but because the wheel is smaller on the V10F, it feels more powerful.  smaller wheels easier to turn with same amount of energy.  if they are both the same motors or course.  we don't know if one is built for more torque and the other built for more speed.  so there is that factor.

Since you are 'beta testing' the new firmware, I am keen to see if it makes change your mind on the way to V10F behaves or if the changes will not be significant enough... :w00t2:

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4 minutes ago, Fastmike said:

Since you are 'beta testing' the new firmware, I am keen to see if it makes change your mind on the way to V10F behaves or if the changes will not be significant enough... :w00t2:

I don't think they will change the firmware much.  They only made the mistake in top speed and tiltback was much worse than before.  If they restore the original tiltback then they have only reduced the delay when changing directions.  This helps me do idling on the V10F.  I don't anticipate anything major.  With the V10F, it is so powerful, very easy to hit the limit.  I think they would have used another 5km/h.  45km/h limit seems still very safe.  

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16 minutes ago, eddiemoy said:

I don't think they will change the firmware much.  They only made the mistake in top speed and tiltback was much worse than before.  If they restore the original tiltback then they have only reduced the delay when changing directions.  This helps me do idling on the V10F.  I don't anticipate anything major.  With the V10F, it is so powerful, very easy to hit the limit.  I think they would have used another 5km/h.  45km/h limit seems still very safe.  

I agree with you! 5km/h does not make much of a difference and with that kind of motor, should still be very safe! Feeling will be much improved with that single change.

Edited by Fastmike

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5 hours ago, that0n3guy said:

the v10f feels more solid.   I wouldn't say its more stable, they are both very stable... but solid (i'm not sure how to describe it).

Edited by Lutalo

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@that0n3guy Judging from your comments, it seems like you prefer your V10F over the 18L. I realize that you still getting acquainted with the 18L, so I don't wish to sound as if I am trying to take you to task for you sharing your thoughts about the wheels; I, and I am sure others appreciate your perspective. I suppose that I am merely having a bit of difficulty grasping nuances like, how a wheel that is more maneuverable (as you described the 18L) has a lower fun factor when performing maneuvers. Please elaborate a bit on that aspect if you can. Thanks.

Edited by Lutalo

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50 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

Judging from your comments, it seems like you prefer your V10F over the 18L

On first ride, yes.   I'm not sure that is true the more miles I put on it.   Right now I just need some more time on the 18l.   My feet fatigue much faster on the 18l though so putting miles on is taking me longer.   I may remove the outside peddle padding (am I even supposed to leave that on there?), See if that helps.

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