V10F vs KS18L?

[kindnation]

I currently ride an Inmotion V8, and it’s great for riding around the neighborhood and short distance trips.  However I’m looking for a long range cruiser that’s more comfortable on my feet with more power and range.

If given the choice between the Inmotion V10F or KingSong KS18L, what are the pros/cons, better choice? 

[mrelwood]

From what I have experienced with my friend’s V10F and what I’ve read from 18L:

- 18” wheel in the 18L will take road irregularities more gracefully.

- V10F maximum sustainable travel speed is about 36km/h, 18L is almost 50km/h.

- KingSong handle feels more balanced and a lot more solid while walking the wheel.

- V10F pedals are the largest hence most comfortable in the business, but the grip is not the best.

- 18L battery is a bit larger, meaning slightly more range.

- Inmotion smartphone app has incredible features, current KingSong app doesn’t even work properly. While a new app for KS is on it’s way, I’m certain it will never compare. Then again, there are Sports Tracker apps that can do a lot of what the Inmotion app does.

 

I hope someone that has tried both can compare how they handle. To me (and how I ride) the V10F shell is too tall to feel nimble, and I’m a tall guy. I do hope the 18L shell feels less restricting. I also felt that the V10F needs quite a bit of effort to accelerate fast. I’m sure it can be learned into though.

Edited June 11, 2018 by mrelwood

[ED209]

My money is on the KS18L, it's a no brainer for me. 

[Juick]

I'm also very interested in opinion of someone who tried both. I can compare stats on paper easily and both would be suitable for my needs. I would like to know the difference in handling and general feeling of the wheels.

KS18L seems generally a bit better, also a bit more expensive.

With V10F, huge advantage for me is, that I have official distributor in my country.

[Kael]

For me the V10F is £200 more than the 18L, so it really was a no-brainer. 

[andrewnyer]

I own a 10F and I rode the 18L at the meet up in nyc this weekend that @houseofjob set up.

In my opinion the two wheels ride very similarly , the auto cut off feature of the 18L is not 100 percent smooth , a few times when we lifted it up it didn't work correctly.

I feel like KingSong needs to work on that. There are two videos of us riding both wheels that you can check out

 

 

[dieterGRAMS]

Also tried both at the NYC meetup for the first time. They felt very alike. The v10f was the softer of the two at the time tho I'm sure its software adjustable. Loved the size of the v10f pedals but didn't ride aggressively enough to make a statement on the rubber surface. The 18L showed up later and it felt very much like the v10f, only stiffer (again, software settings maybe). I'd assume with adjusted settings, the v10f would have more torque & agility over the 18L's top speed and stability.  Side pads felt about the same and didn't bother me like the updated Tesla pads do. 

[houseofjob]

9 hours ago, dieterGRAMS said:

I'd assume with adjusted settings, the v10f would have more torque & agility over the 18L's top speed and stability.

The V10F's hardness is app set-able, but not THAt different, extreme to extreme IMO (if I'm remember correctly).

 

On 6/11/2018 at 4:22 AM, Juick said:

I'm also very interested in opinion of someone who tried both. I can compare stats on paper easily and both would be suitable for my needs. I would like to know the difference in handling and general feeling of the wheels.

We all tried both (those who took the opportunity) for the Z10 Demo NYC event.

Handling is comparable, as both shell widths are on the thinner side, due to the tallnesses. 

The KS18L sports the same pedals as the KS18S, so 4th longest/biggest (if I'm remembering correctly: 1. V10F 2. NB1Z first prototype pedals (if they hopefully release) 3. MSuperV3). Suitable in my opinion as a small footer (US M 8.5), but the top 3 are like luxury roomy real estate pedals.

KS18L gyro is like an 8/10 hardness, while the V10F is a rubbery gyro feel (some say softer, but I say just rubbery, rebounding, etc), not unlike the later batch GX12-4 port InMotion V8 / SoloWheel branded Glide 3 (more than the early release GX12-3 port InMotion V8's).

 

On 6/10/2018 at 9:08 PM, kindnation said:

If given the choice between the Inmotion V10F or KingSong KS18L, what are the pros/cons, better choice? 

IMHO, for me, the KS18L would win because:

• main reason: speed throttling: V10F currently speed throttles after ~70% battery. You only achieve 25mph at the upper 70/80-to-100% battery, then it dips for the majority in the 22mph range. The KS18L should be a solid 50kph / 31mph for the majority of the battery. InMotion really should just state the V10F speed max as 22mph+. This could possibly be fixed with a firmware, but unlikely as we never saw the V5F+ FW bump from 15 to 16-17mph proposed early.
• secondary: better trolley + lift-motor-disengage: the trolley is super robust, handle part is now magnesium instead of plastic, with no jiggle / play side to side to the telescoping assembly, and locks in 3 different positions, where all positions you can lift (with a slight pause to engage the motor disengage) the wheel turned on sans wheel spin. The V10F plastic handle disengage is not so much worse, but pressing the button can be finicky at times
• secondary: dual Lenovo connectors: this is a small convenience, but let's you fast charge with an additional regular stock KS brick charger, without having to buy a charge doctor (although I highly recommend them). The standard is the best IMHO, you can plug it in either way. Also, since the KS18L is 84V, you should be able to use V5 / SW Glide2 chargers of the same charging port standard.

 

Edited June 13, 2018 by houseofjob

[eddiemoy]

The 18L wins in every thing except app.  King song app sucks.  18L is a lot faster 50kmph top speed vs 40 on V10F, firmware doesn’t throttle, feels smoother at speeds.  Trolley handle was designed, not a afterthought, bolt on like the V10F.  Pedal is grip tape, feels rock solid, the pedal on the inmotion is rubber, constantly feels like it is slipping. 

‘Get the 18L.   Inmotion got their product out first, only reason it is selling.   Now the other wheels are out, inmotion will not sell.

Edited June 13, 2018 by eddiemoy

[Unventor]

9 hours ago, eddiemoy said:

The 18L wins in every thing except app.  King song app sucks.  18L is a lot faster 50kmph top speed vs 40 on V10F, firmware doesn’t throttle, feels smoother at speeds.  Trolley handle was designed, not a afterthought, bolt on like the V10F.  Pedal is grip tape, feels rock solid, the pedal on the inmotion is rubber, constantly feels like it is slipping. 

‘Get the 18L.   Inmotion got their product out first, only reason it is selling.   Now the other wheels are out, inmotion will not sell.

No such does the tore format matter I mean 18x2.5" vs 16x2.5". I suspect the move from V8s 2.175 to 2.5 is much more noticeable for pothole/bump absortion or am I wrong on that point?

[that0n3guy]

If Inmotion increased the top speed of the v10f to 30mph and changed the accel/breaking algorithm a little bit (a little faster off the start), would you still think the 18 beats it out?

 

[houseofjob]

4 minutes ago, that0n3guy said:

If Inmotion increased the top speed of the v10f to 30mph and changed the accel/breaking algorithm a little bit (a little faster off the start), would you still think the 18 beats it out?

That would be a fairer fight.

The small stuff again still puts the KS18L over the edge (dual Lenovo charge plugs, more robust trolley). The V10F although does have that number 1 headlight system, throw (to the light the ground in front of your wheel, and regular beam to light what's ahead of you; and personal thing, but I do like the V10F LEDs, though the KS18L Ninebot 16-style implementation is not too shabby too.

[that0n3guy]

5 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

That would be a fairer fight.

That's what I was thinking.  Hear that @Bobwheel?   Since both of those are potentially just firmware changes, seems do-able. 

After riding my v10f and feeling limited at around 22mph, I don't want to regret the v10f purchase.

[UniVehje]

21 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

That would be a fairer fight.

The small stuff again still puts the KS18L over the edge (dual Lenovo charge plugs, more robust trolley). The V10F although does have that number 1 headlight system, throw (to the light the ground in front of your wheel, and regular beam to light what's ahead of you; and personal thing, but I do like the V10F LEDs, though the KS18L Ninebot 16-style implementation is not too shabby too.

I think V10F and 18L are probably the closest competitors. And I also hope Inmotion would take more speed and acceleration from the motor. On paper the motors and batteries are about the same on these wheels. The performance should also be the same. Although they could have a different tuning and approach. Probably more safety reserves on the Inmotion. 

Here’s my take on this topic after 900 km on the V10F. 

I disagree on the trolley handle. I actually really like the Inmotion style. I don’t see it as an afterthought. It’s very comfortable, easy to rest on walls, quick to open and close and also very robust. It’s the last thing to break. And if it does, it’s very easy to change and spare parts are readily available online. KingSong trolleys are excellent also. I would like them but right now don’t feel like wanting to switch to that design. 

I cannot compare to 18L but some smaller things that in my mind are better on the V10F are the pedals (larger and higher), light, speakers (probably) and side lights. And of course the app as a big bonus. I don’t have problem with slipping on the rubber pedals but your shoes might be different. 

I have been riding as fast as I want to and don’t really reach the top speed often. I don’t think the speeds after 40 km/h are very comfortable anyway for long periods. So personally top speed after 40 is not important to me. Matter of preference. 

Acceleration from 0 is not great on the V10, I don’t know how it is with 18L. I think Inmotion should tune this part as an update. However, I also think acceleration from 0 is made too big a topic unless you want a trick wheel. It’s nice to have but there’s also acceleration after curves. For example the V10F goes from calm 30 km/h to top speed in an instant if I want to. The strongest acceleration is at another place and that becomes handy when coming out of a tight curve and when carving. 

Speaking of carving, the Inmotion behaves extremely well on curves. Takes some learning at first but now I can do 90 degree curves at a very high speed and almost instantly after the curve back to high speed. They really have done some good work on the behavior. Plus it can be adjusted. (Cannot compare this to 18L, probably very good also). 

Both wheels are large and heavy. Inmotion probably a bit higher and narrower, KingSong fatter and shorter. Tire size is the biggest difference but probably not very important. Both are 2.5 inch wide, so they behave as 17 and 19 inch wheels. At least the Inmotion is very comfortable and stable. It can take bumps and holes easily as it can be inflated with less pressure. The V10F with smaller wheel might be a bit more agile and nimble, the 18 a bit more stable at really high speeds. 

I regard the V10F to be comparable to a high end mountain bike. Great for trails and off road, not beating a street bike in acceleration and speed on pavement. 

Inmotion build quality might be better (especially after the first batch) but the price is higher also. Both are great choices! Both will get you smiling a lot when riding! You really cannot separate these based on spec sheets only. There are other characteristics that you should consider also. I love to ride mostly on trails where I cannot even go very fast so I’m very happy with my wheel. I usually ride 2,5 hours a day. If you do long rides on good roads at high speed, buy the 18L. If you drive among pedestrians and in the city for short runs or practice tricks, buy a second smaller wheel, something 14”. 

[eddiemoy]

37 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

I think V10F and 18L are probably the closest competitors. And I also hope Inmotion would take more speed and acceleration from the motor. On paper the motors and batteries are about the same on these wheels. The performance should also be the same. Although they could have a different tuning and approach. Probably more safety reserves on the Inmotion. 

Here’s my take on this topic after 900 km on the V10F. 

I disagree on the trolley handle. I actually really like the Inmotion style. I don’t see it as an afterthought. It’s very comfortable, easy to rest on walls, quick to open and close and also very robust. It’s the last thing to break. And if it does, it’s very easy to change and spare parts are readily available online. KingSong trolleys are excellent also. I would like them but right now don’t feel like wanting to switch to that design. 

I cannot compare to 18L but some smaller things that in my mind are better on the V10F are the pedals (larger and higher), light, speakers (probably) and side lights. And of course the app as a big bonus. I don’t have problem with slipping on the rubber pedals but your shoes might be different. 

I have been riding as fast as I want to and don’t really reach the top speed often. I don’t think the speeds after 40 km/h are very comfortable anyway for long periods. So personally top speed after 40 is not important to me. Matter of preference. 

Acceleration from 0 is not great on the V10, I don’t know how it is with 18L. I think Inmotion should tune this part as an update. However, I also think acceleration from 0 is made too big a topic unless you want a trick wheel. It’s nice to have but there’s also acceleration after curves. For example the V10F goes from calm 30 km/h to top speed in an instant if I want to. The strongest acceleration is at another place and that becomes handy when coming out of a tight curve and when carving. 

Speaking of carving, the Inmotion behaves extremely well on curves. Takes some learning at first but now I can do 90 degree curves at a very high speed and almost instantly after the curve back to high speed. They really have done some good work on the behavior. Plus it can be adjusted. (Cannot compare this to 18L, probably very good also). 

Both wheels are large and heavy. Inmotion probably a bit higher and narrower, KingSong fatter and shorter. Tire size is the biggest difference but probably not very important. Both are 2.5 inch wide, so they behave as 17 and 19 inch wheels. At least the Inmotion is very comfortable and stable. It can take bumps and holes easily as it can be inflated with less pressure. The V10F with smaller wheel might be a bit more agile and nimble, the 18 a bit more stable at really high speeds. 

I regard the V10F to be comparable to a high end mountain bike. Great for trails and off road, not beating a street bike in acceleration and speed on pavement. 

Inmotion build quality might be better (especially after the first batch) but the price is higher also. Both are great choices! Both will get you smiling a lot when riding! You really cannot separate these based on spec sheets only. There are other characteristics that you should consider also. I love to ride mostly on trails where I cannot even go very fast so I’m very happy with my wheel. I usually ride 2,5 hours a day. If you do long rides on good roads at high speed, buy the 18L. If you drive among pedestrians and in the city for short runs or practice tricks, buy a second smaller wheel, something 14”. 

Pedals on inmotion v10f is same height as 18L, not higher.  I found the 18L more nimble.  Maybe because I’m more used to the 18S.  The handle is a preference thing, I think those who have experience th king song handle think other handles are shit.  You cannot beat a handle that is right in the center of the unit and has a horizontal style for easy grip.  I don’t understand they app thing, I set it and forget it.  So it isn’t a big deal to me. Who rides with the app anyway?  I do only when filming.   

[houseofjob]

@UniVehje I agree with most all your comments, but when we rode the KS18L at our NYC Z Demo Event, the gap was much much closer than even your response says, I was very surprised myself.

The stability/agility comp is non-existant, they're the same IMHO, the V10F might as well be an 18", it rides exactly like one.

I like the scorpion trolley (my fav!) in design & function a bit better than the KS diagonal trolley, but the main thing is the KS18L trolley is telescoping, yet locks in place, no wiggle, which the V5/V10-style scorpion trolley unfortunately suffers from and they never fixed from the V5 implementation.

With this small a gap, you're relegated to really small stuff, like charging port standards, riding feel (which is user preference). But the current speed throttling signature of the V10F is a huge minus right now, they really need to fix that, among other things. Just 5 more kph can't be that hard to achieve from a ~2kW nom motor, as all their other competitors are doing so (even the Ninebot One Z using less voltage at 58-59V!).

Edited June 14, 2018 by houseofjob

[Dany Slx]

You can unlock the speed from 40 to 45 km/h thanks to darknessbot app on the v10f. But it’s not official.

Why is it possible on this wheel ? Inmotion already unlocked the speed limit on v5+ in the past. How can we not suppose Inmotion will be the same thing for the v10f ?

Thanks to @eddiemoy we can analyse the max power is rarely over 1800-2000W, maybe while climbing an hill but not at max speed. 

What is your view, how do you explain that point @Bobwheel, @Jeffrey Scott Will ? 

 

 

[em1barns]

10 minutes ago, Dany Slx said:

 

Why is it possible on this wheel ? Inmotion already unlocked the speed limit on v5+ in the past. How can we not suppose Inmotion will be the same thing for the v10f ?

 

Because INMOTION said they would unlock speed for v5f and did not do it, for one?? There was no official speed unlock on v8 either, even though you can unlock it to 35km/h in DarknessBot...

So your statement is pure wishful thinking at this stage.

[mezzanine]

It's interesting to hear that the V10 rides exactly like a 18" wheel.  I wasn't sure if that would be the case when it was first released.  I knew it had the same width tire, but wasn't sure if it would translate into the same ride experience.  I'd be very interested to learn from those that have tried the MSuper X how it compares to both the Monster and the Z10.  

[Juick]

Decisions, Decisions... In the last week it's almost every day I decide "definitely" for either KS18L or V10F and then next day I read some new info and change my mind again. Here is a summary of what I found.

KS18L
+ 10km/h higher top speed - Not sure If I ever want to go that fast, but it should be safer not riding near limits.
+ 76Wh more battery capacity - Just a minor difference
+ Two charging ports
+ USB ports
+ Grip tape pedals - Better grip

V10F
+ 225 EUR cheaper (at least from stores I have available)
+ Better headlight and speakers - That is just a guess, never found any direct comparison
+ Larger pedals with rubber - should maintain its grip "forever" 
+ More reliable cutout button

Both should have similar handling, size, weight and height of pedals. Handle seems to be personal preference.
First batch of V10F seems to have some issues, hopefully resolved by Inmotion by now. Reviews are usually positive with minor complaints / dissatisfaction. Some of those could be fixed with firmware update.
KS18L is so fresh it has almost no reviews yet, but what can be found is highly positive. Only complaint found is handle disconnect mechanism does not work 100%.

I will appreciate any input, or correction. I will probably make final desicion tonight.

EDIT: I did not include app as I usually use it only once for initial setup.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Juick

[stephen]

10 minutes ago, Juick said:

Decisions, Decisions... In the last week it's almost every day I decide "definitely" for either KS18L or V10F and then next day I read some new info and change my mind again. Here is a summary of what I found.

KS18L
+ 10km/h higher top speed - Not sure If I ever want to go that fast, but it should be safer not riding near limits.
+ 76Wh more battery capacity - Just a minor difference
+ Two charging ports
+ USB ports
+ Grip tape pedals - Better grip

V10F
+ 225 EUR cheaper (at least from stores I have available)
+ Better headlight and speakers - That is just a guess, never found any direct comparison
+ Larger pedals with rubber - should maintain its grip "forever" 
+ More reliable cutout button

Both should have similar handling, size, weight and height of pedals. Handle seems to be personal preference.
First batch of V10F seems to have some issues, hopefully resolved by Inmotion by now. Reviews are usually positive with minor complaints / dissatisfaction. Some of those could be fixed with firmware update.
KS18L is so fresh it has almost no reviews yet, but what can be found is highly positive. Only complaint found is handle disconnect mechanism does not work 100%.

I will appreciate any input, or correction. I will probably make final desicion tonight.

what about the msuper x? i was looking at the ks18l i need more reveiws on the msx though it's looking good

[Juick]

2 minutes ago, stephen said:

what about the msuper x? i was looking at the ks18l i need more reveiws on the msx though it's looking good

I do not trust Gotway. I would consider them If I had supplier / service nearby. I'm not DIY type of guy.

[mrelwood]

While I agree that V10F feels like an 18”, when a bad bump or a pothole comes along, it’s about the physics as a science how the wheel trajectory reacts. There 16” is 16”, period. Therefore it’s much more of an achievement to me that atleast the old Msuper V3 I tried, handled almost like my 16S that has a 2.5” tire.

2 hours ago, Juick said:

...hopefully resolved by Inmotion by now. Reviews are usually positive with minor complaints / dissatisfaction. Some of those could be fixed with firmware update.

”Hopefully” and ”could be” are not words I’d base my decision on... ?

[Fastmike]

On 6/11/2018 at 11:13 AM, Kael said:

For me the V10F is £200 more than the 18L, so it really was a no-brainer. 

That is odd! In France, the V10F is 400 euros less expensive compare to the K18L (1590 vs 2000)! You can probably order it via Amazon to be covered in case of issue if you wish   ?

[Fastmike]

3 hours ago, Juick said:

Decisions, Decisions... In the last week it's almost every day I decide "definitely" for either KS18L or V10F and then next day I read some new info and change my mind again. Here is a summary of what I found.

KS18L
+ 10km/h higher top speed - Not sure If I ever want to go that fast, but it should be safer not riding near limits.
+ 76Wh more battery capacity - Just a minor difference
+ Two charging ports
+ USB ports
+ Grip tape pedals - Better grip

V10F
+ 225 EUR cheaper (at least from stores I have available)
+ Better headlight and speakers - That is just a guess, never found any direct comparison
+ Larger pedals with rubber - should maintain its grip "forever" 
+ More reliable cutout button

Both should have similar handling, size, weight and height of pedals. Handle seems to be personal preference.
First batch of V10F seems to have some issues, hopefully resolved by Inmotion by now. Reviews are usually positive with minor complaints / dissatisfaction. Some of those could be fixed with firmware update.
KS18L is so fresh it has almost no reviews yet, but what can be found is highly positive. Only complaint found is handle disconnect mechanism does not work 100%.

I will appreciate any input, or correction. I will probably make final desicion tonight.

EDIT: I did not include app as I usually use it only once for initial setup.

"First batch of V10F seems to have some issues," from which the bearing going bad for some users. InMotion said they took action but is it true since the V8 already had the exact same problem???